WideNine

Did not realize that was a private chat. Thought it was part of this OP thread. Feel free to ignore - no skin off my back. Truth. Felt bad for the kid... sure he took a ton of grief, but he did get him to step out.

No leaps other than the truth that Edmunds play declined last year. I am not referring to popularity contests like the pro-bowl, but just how he faired compared to other LBs in the league and his numbers in prior seasons. His tackles per defensive snaps (a generic LB productivity measure) put him around the middle to lower end of active LBs, he also earned a 51.0 pff pass-coverage grade, 71st among LBs with at least 226 snaps played on defense. What the stats don't do is tell us if he can turn it around and become the player the Bills hoped for when they selected him so high - this is what annoyed me about pff's takes on Allen - the certain doom projections. We can argue all day and throw shade on each other about whether or not his game will improve. No one knows for certain. It's a Pollyanna take to say he is playing great now, and it is hubris to be certain he will never turn the corner. Beane has ponied up and we will see this year how his play trends with perhaps some better d-line play in front of him.

The Titans are the kind of team you never want to be down on the scoreboard against. They will just strangle the clock and have Henry rag doll your defense till they are all hands-on-hips and gasping. Henry is a machine. I will give Josh Norman props for foolish bravery. Most DBs know there is a good chance they will end up on the wrong side of an internet meme if they face off against Henry with a head of steam.

That is always an interesting take, but he comes from a football family and has been immersed in the sport. If memory serves he makes some of the defensive calls on the field. So game IQ may not be an issue. I could get behind the "raw" project Allen with his multi-sport background and limited focus on football, QB camps, etc... If anything Allen has progressed faster than I imagined. Right or wrong, I had more expectations of Edmunds after his first 2 seasons where it looked like he was building on something, but he has been regressing.. "...you're either growing or you're dying. There ain't no third direction." - Tommy Boy It is in all of our interest as Bills fans that he turn his play around this season. We are going to need more impact plays (passes defended, sacks on blitzes, TFLs, FF, ...) from that position.

Dude, he allowed a QB passer rating of 130 when they targeted him last year. Folks can sit back and say he was great all day long does not make it so, and it was plain as day that KC considered his coverage area a key target to exploit in our playoff game....late in the season (and it was). Beane loves his picks, especially ones he spent picks and position to reach. He has also overspent on some middling former Panther vets. He is loyal to a fault with his guys, but to be fair that also creates some of that culture capital that is hard to measure, but attracts quality FA's. My patience with Edmunds living up to his potential was just about spent last season, but strongly suspected Beane would bet on Edmunds turning his play around. Not pleased, but not surprised. Was certain they were not going to plug a rookie into the middle with how close this team is.

I hope you are right, but going to pencil you in for some razzing the first team we play that consistently blows through the middle of our line leaving Edmunds hugging air Feel free to return the favor if our concerns are over-blown. You may be right on the Star cut take, we do currently have a log jam at the DL and if they are reluctant to move on from any of their project guys they could possibly go that route. In fairness to Frazier we did do better against the run down the stretch, but largely because we played more guys in the box and gave up the middle to any TE or WR running a shallow crosser behind them. We did do a better job on stretch zone runs where we were giving up too many cutback opportunities. Would rather see more ability from our front-4 (and Mike) to get it done both pass rush and run defense so we can dedicate our secondary towards better defending those short-intermediate passes that kept moving the chains and extending drives.

It's a legit question. It will be interesting to see if they go more 1-gap front when they spell Star, or if they pickup another 1T at some point and continue to play a true NT role. If they line all our big DTs in gaps that may lend itself to more "wide nine" looks, that makes for a longer path to the QB, but have seen some brutal twist stunts out of that set. I would not say folks are thinking the sky is falling, but it is fine to wonder why they have left this area with Star's diminishing impact (not a bad NT, just more average now than earlier in his career) and unknown conditioning as well as his maturing contract untouched this offseason. The other area that did not get addressed is an upgrade and eventual replacement at C. I think most fans really like Morse and you can count me among those, but he is always one hit away from concussion protocol and those happen more easily and more often each year. Mongo and Bates have filled in when they have had to go to the bench, but I am not sure if they are the long-term plan or represent any significant upgrade at the position both are on short-term cheap deals that the Bills could extend and lock if they felt that they had their guy. The kind of blocking that Daboll seems to scheme up for many of our running plays are more power-blocking that better support Allen's play-action and less pin and pull that would lend themselves to Morse's strengths. There is also the contract that is coming into maturity where I think it would have been best to be able to groom someone if they are not going to find a veteran to bring in. There is only so much you can address in one draft, but this one seemed to be pretty deep with quality interior OL that could play both G and C, so will be interesting to see what the OBD plan is going to be after riding out Morse's contract.

Just that the contact kept happening 3 yards behind the LOS.

Gotta love those unstoppable Sumo guys that have their own event horizons and gravity wells - they look so good in a Bills uni

This - McBeane has a ton of patience with their hand-picked prospects and to be fair to Ford they moved him all over the line and finally settled on putting him at LG where he did not get enough reps to really settle into the role. They liked what Ike did for them last year too and he has been a longer-term project. If anything the thought goes that Morse gets hurt, Mongo has to shift inside to C, and then we are thin at G. Kid is likely PS bound this season where they will work to develop him.

yeah... hated that weasel.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out picking several players who play the same position early in back to back drafts. Without the luxury of players developing behind starters - if all our prospect DE's from this and the last draft pan out and all those rookie deals come to an end and the 5th year options or long-term contracts come calling.... I guess having all those guys pan out would be a good problem to have, if we have that many players they want to keep. Will make for some tough decisions, but I expect the Bills will end up with more than a few compensatory picks down the road if they continue to have success and stay on the same trajectory.

Beane emphasizes the interview process and this is likely why. You can see the measurables on the tape and in the "underwear Olympics" and pro days. But does the player enjoy the sport, and is he self-motivated... those are trickier questions, but ones you have to answer. A player lacking those qualities will quickly turn to crap right after their first decent contract.

We missed not having a pick in the 4th, but considering that is when the bulk of the 1T prospects went, one could argue that the class itself was pretty weak. If we roll with Star in the rotation with what we have we will still be better than last year. I will be pleased as punch if we "pants" NE again and show improvement against the run and stopping TE's. I am excited to see how some of these trees we drafted start to develop.

That's where I am at. Not chicken little with the sky is falling, but thinking that if 3-4 of these picks contribute it is a solid draft. Perhaps we are getting spoiled looking for team needs that can get us over post-season obstacles. I can remember when the only mantra was what do we have to do and what players do we have to bring in to get past NE. Not quite ready for indiscriminate ball-washing, but hard not to thank the good Lord for the FO we now have.

I am not seeing a ton of complainers, unless a B or B+ is complaining. If any draft actually lives up to a B grade it is usually a pretty darn good draft when you think of how many prospects wash out a few years in across the league. I thought they took a few luxury picks and missed a few BPAs at positions of need, but Beane was not working with a ton of picks from the get-go and made the calls he did. I think we can safely say that we are still waiting on Oliver, Edmunds, and Ford to reach that impact potential you expect from where they were taken so some healthy skepticism is not unwarranted. Beane hit on Allen and that is the biggest feather in his cap right now. He also has shown a solid ability to pick up key FA's when his staff struggled finding the right WRs to fit what they were trying to do on offense Bease in the slot, Brown when we needed to stretch the field, and a #1 receiver in Diggs. They also overpaid for a defensive line that did not get it done last year. It is a good front office - solid, that hit on more than they miss and are willing to grow and learn.

Star does not get moved off his spot much, but I am not sure he actually forces the double-teams. We will be better than we were without him, but I don't think of him as an impact player at the position at this stage in his career. I also have my doubts with Edmunds becoming the kind of LB who will attack and fill the right gap even with the added benefit of coming in clean... jury is out. And yes, if there is a blind spot that I think both Beane and McD have it is they tend to overvalue (and overpay a bit) for former Panthers. I get the comfort that they have on what those players can bring, but... The good news is they have just about tapped that pool out.

Solid "B". Felt the second DE pick was a luxury pick where we needed to shore up the interior trenches - particularly NT. Was too early for any of the NTs available, but thought Beane would address DB there and free up a pick at the end of the 3rd for NT before the run on them throughout the 4th. Wanted us to pickup one of the quality C/G prospects that were available this draft. One of the best and deepest classes I have seen and we whiffed there so we have no plan "B" for Morse other than Mongo who I don't think is the long-term solution. So not unhappy with the quality of the prospects - just did not address the glaring holes I feel this team has up the middle.

My worst take was E. J. Manuel Saw the size, the arm, the tight spiral that cut through the winds of the Ralph and was sold. Would not give up till I got the reliable info about his inability to read defenses or pickup the playbook from his peers on the team - said the coaches basically had to dumb everything down to half-field reads. We all make mistakes on our player takes - have learned to look for other things in QB's and that is why I was patient with Allen but wanted to see the progressive growth and he delivered. Same with receivers. Love the speed, but the NFL is not a track meet. Give me guys with decent speed, but emphasize separation and great hands/catching radius.

I know you were being tongue and cheek, but I do sometimes think the long arm thing gets a bit overemphasized. If an o-lineman can still move well and have the big wing span then that is an added benefit being able to control defensive line players without letting them get into your body. But when playing in space ( thinking T here and TE) I will take a linemen that can move their feet and play with good balance over their base rather than guys with tree limbs for arms but whose feet are cemented into the turf. I am thinking a bit about Ford here... I thought when they moved up to draft him that he had terrific upper body strength and long arms, but the feet were slow. It was particularly obvious when Oklahoma would pull him and he struggled and lunged lining up blocks. Those guys with slower feet but long arms tend to lean too much and over stride because they are used to compensating with those long arms. I think that works with lesser competition, but is tough in the pros. I am not too down on Ford, but think it is best that they have migrated him to the interior where there is generally less space he has to cover and he can do more power-blocking which should show for us when we run his way. He still has to work on quick feet and those short choppy steps maintaining his balance so he can leverage that above average strength he has. The other benefit to improving the quick feet for linemen is being able to get your cleats out of the turf before your knees gets twisted like a pretzel or when the pile drives into you from behind - sucks. But getting those feet free helps cut down on the injuries.

That's promising - Leonard was very physical and we need a bit more of that - much of our depth at DB are more suited for zone and playing off receivers rather than press and harassing receivers. NFL is becoming downright NHL-esk with the way the refs swallow their whistles in the postseason in regards to hands on receivers downfield. A bit more physicality in our back 7 could help if the kid pans out.

So killer speed and iffy hands. Older poster here, so my mind immediately recalls Don Beebe. Would blow by everyone then juggle the ball for 15 yards while everyone held their breath. A receiver with the distinct irony of being most famous for his standout defensive play in our lopsided SB loss to Dallas.

Seems like a focal point of targeting opt-out players who had solid showings prior, but fell because of lack of 2020 tape. Not a bad strategy for a team with fewer picks that are late round selections too.

Hard to be upset with a kid from my own backyard from where the fam used to lived in MN. Played the same years as my kid in the same HS conference so probably should ask him if he recalls the name - same side of the ball so he may not ring a bell. Either way Beane has really focused on the edges of both lines where I thought we were adequate if not spectacular. Kind of disappointed we have not shored up the interior where we could not move bodies on either side, but we will see. I always try not to let my missed draft expectations sour me on our newest Bills - good luck kid.

Not sure. Been a run on interior DL prospects this round...at least the ones that were on the top of the food chain. Perhaps Beane has a sleeper in mind. I went into this draft worried about the interior of both lines - still am. The draft is not the only way to fill needs and the Bills were pretty good last year, just struggled to match up with a few of the elite teams in our way.