JGMcD2

But if you spend money on improving those deficiencies... you create other deficiencies... that’s the whole issue. You wanted Ngakoue... what does he do better than Mario Addison? They’ve been remarkably similar players over the last 5 years. Is he actually an upgrade? You wanted Curtis Samuel... what does he do better than Sanders? By the look of it Sanders is more productive for less money. Why would you spend more money for less production when we’re as close as we are? You want Engram... what does he do better than Knox? You said it yourself... he’s the same player as Knox but a little more athletic (and cost $5.5M more). Why would you waste money on that when you have the same player in house and can spend that $5.5M elsewhere? Getting to the AFCCG is hard enough in itself... you are taking more of risk ripping apart a team that was capable of getting there in search of a team that MIGHT get you there. You’re better off building on top of the team that was capable getting there than you are gutting it.

You can’t improve the deficiencies without retaining the same group. They’re not taking more of a risk... it’s honestly the safer route IMO. You’re going with a 13-3 roster and still haven’t even gone through the draft yet. Still plenty of time to improve deficiencies... I agree with you... there will be bargain guys to be had... but not right now. So we can’t be sitting here upset that we haven’t reached the point where acquiring bargain type guys is an option. That’s just a timing thing... as much as we want to fast forward to that point haha. I also agree we need to improve our defense... but it can be in a variety of ways seeing it’s a fairly player friendly scheme given the player is the right fit. Yes, the defense threw up two duds in the playoffs and struggled early on (like most NFL defenses this year) but when the dust settled they were on the cusp of being a top 10 unit. Who is to say we don’t get a L’Jarious Sneed type difference maker in the draft or something that nobody even saw coming except for the front office/ coaching staff?

That’s assuming they maintain the same level of play and success they’ve had elsewhere prior. Both of us are doing a lot of assuming apparently, Scott.

Well all of your scenarios assume that everyone we bring in at DE, WR, etc. makes an impact and is an improvement that elevates the team.. which would obviously be wrong as well. That’s what your whole crusade is predicated on.

The alternative is essentially just rearranging furniture. You upgrade CB2, DE and DT through FA while simultaneously leaving 2 starting OL spots and LB open. They haven’t gotten worse... they’re the same team as last year with the opportunity to improve moving forward. It’s the same discussion if we let Milano, Williams and Feliciano walk and bringing in Ngakoue, Fuller and Dalvin Tomlinson... the difference is fans get excited about new shiny toys as opposed to running it back with the same group. There’s nothing to say Ngakoue, Fuller and Tomlinson help us take that next step if we downgrade other positions and can’t fill them or fill them through the draft. It’s a net gain of zero.. so why wouldn’t you function with the known quantity and continue to build on it? It’s a good thing the season doesn’t start today and there’s still the draft and weeks of free agency to improve. Let me be clear... I agree we need to beat the Chiefs... but let’s pump the breaks on freaking out because we’re returning a 13-3 team. Love the idea of conceding before games are played too... why even play them at all right? Let’s just do fantasy free agency all year long... see who has the best roster on paper and crown them champions!

I’m not sure you see the big picture here... at least in the way Beane does. Beane has made it clear that he values building relationships with the players and treating them a certain way. Obviously we don’t know everything there, but he’s made points about it before so it plays into this. There’s a good quote in Embedded from... 2 years ago? When Beane says during a pre-free agency meeting “We need to be careful with who we pay. The guys in the locker room pay attention to that.” He cares about what they think... and rightfully so... they’re people.

I think @BADOLBILZlearned how to type on a typewriter... that was the old rule there. Double space after a period. The “...” or ellipses are like a comma... show a pause in speech or thought... I use them a lot too haha I’ll add I agree with Badol on his last two posts. World might be coming to an end.

Because I haven’t seen a lot of Engram... what does he do better/differently than Dawson Knox that would make him an upgrade?

The best comedians say that the funniest jokes are rooted in reality... I guess you’re a really good comedian too!

Wouldn’t be a thread about a depth signing if you didn’t complain that they didn’t sign a Pro Bowler to compete for the last spot on the roster...

McKenzie has made it pretty clear he would like to come back... I just don’t think we’ve offered him that opportunity yet. We’re looking to do something different.

Can you give some examples of when the Bills haven’t drafted the BPA on their board in the 3 drafts since Beane has been here?

Either one it doesn’t matter... we’re not doing anything any different than the vast majority of playoffs team from last season. See my post on page 10.

I am going to wrap this thread up at 10 pages with actual information from the 2020 season as it pertains to ST only players and the resources allocated to them. I'll define here what I considered a ST only player... A ST only player is a player that played over 40% of snaps on ST while simultaneously playing less than 10% of snaps on offense and/or defense. This does not include specialists (K, P or LS). I went on PFR and went through all 14 teams that qualified for the playoffs. I sorted by ST snaps and took every player that fit my criteria listed above (40% > ST snaps and <10% off/def snaps). From there I went to Spotrac and individually searched every player that fit my criteria to figure out each player's average salary from the 2020 season. To recap: Only playoff teams Must be a free agent signing Must play more than 40% of ST snaps Must play less than 10% of snaps on offense or defense Does not include K, P or LS Findings: 10/14 playoff teams employed players on their rosters in 2020 to play primarily special teams. The average playoff team allocated roster spots to 2 ST players signed to UFA deals. $5M - Bills, Steelers and Saints $4M - Buccaneers $3.5M - Bears $3M - Titans, Ravens $2M - Seahawks $1M - Chiefs and Football Team Conclusion: Yes, the Buffalo Bills were at the upper limit when it came to playoff teams spending money on ST but they did not significantly outspend the teams around them. New Orleans and Pittsburgh spent just as much with the Super Bowl champs right behind them. They also have not wasted roster spots on ST players any more than any other playoff team. Verdict: This thread is a bust.

I’d like to make it clear that I don’t think he made anything up... I would just like to know where the information came from.

Yeah... I had to go back and forth between Spotrac and PFR snap counts to break down those two Pats (2018 and 2016) and the Chiefs (2020). If there’s an easier way to see it... I would love it haha. But I think I’m going to have to go and do it manually because I can’t find the combination of the two... but if @BADOLBILZhas a link somewhere with that information combined it would be huge.

Absolutely... I just don’t know where he’s seeing how other teams treat ST and the money spend on ST only spots. He’s making a league wide comparison.

Is there somewhere that I can see the comparison between the Bills and other teams when it comes to spending on ST only players? Again, genuinely asking for a source so I can see how it all breaks down... you’re making a claim... I’m not disputing it... I’m just asking to see the information.

Chiefs too... I guess he didn’t like that example too much either...

I'm not actually sure... let me ask! I didn't know when I entered this thread I entered totalitarian regime... @FireChansis there any chance you could provide us with some clarity on what we can use here? Or are you just determined to make rules that make you right no matter what?

Please. You are insulting his intelligence. He disqualified the use of the Patriots in this argument. Even though it was after he was proven wrong... he still laid out clear rules! GunnerBill... you can't use the Patriots! He said so after the fact!

In all fairness to @FireChansand his ever changing rules... he did say what recent Super Bowl Champion, or hell, contender has dedicated this much money and effort to special teams. I wouldn't consider the current Patriots a contender after last year... he also disqualified the use of the Patriots in this argument at all because... rules? EDIT: He actually didn't say recent Super Bowl Champion... I don't want to misquote his geniusness

Alright... When the Chiefs won the Super Bowl in 2020 they had $4M dedicated to Anthony Sherman, Jordan Lucas and De'Anthony Thomas who were primarily ST and not on rookie contracts. It's ok man... you're equally as unproductive as @FireChanshe created this dog**** thread... got proven wrong and then changed the rules for him to be proven wrong. He's been proven wrong again... stay tuned to see what he does next to avoid being wrong!

Well then you should have phrased your question like this... Can someone point out what Super Bowl champion outside of the New England Patriots or hell, even recent contender, that dedicated this much money and effort to STers? You can't change the rules AFTER you ask the question...

Sweetheart... this is what you asked for in your initial post... Can someone point out what Super Bowl champion or hell, even recent contender, that dedicated this much money and effort to STers? That right there is a direct quote from you when you started this thread. I provided you two recent examples (2018 and 2016 Super Bowl Champions) that met your criteria of teams as much (or more) money and effort to STers than the Bills do. I never made a claim that ST had more of an impact than Belichick or Brady... I simply provided facts to answer your question. Don't get defensive and deflect now that you look clueless. If you didn't want answer... you shouldn't have asked the question.