JGMcD2

Everyone felt like Joe Schoen was an incredible talent evaluator and Beane was ***** after he left. Who has had the better drafts despite picking 20-25 picks later?

You mean Allen, Edmunds, Rousseau and even Elam? People complain about those guys too. I mean Buffalo is usually taking guys with high RAS. The athleticism is rarely an issue - they actually might bet on traits too much.

Umm, yeah this isn’t true. Double check wherever you’re getting your information from.

This isn’t really how medicals work… you really think Beane is there as the leading medical opinion?

If this is for development purposes, I would be looking heavily into the college ranks for our next strength coach. If it’s primarily injury related, they should be looking into folks with PT and CSCS credentials. I may do some digging later to get an idea of who could be a fit.

This might actually be as much a long term health thing as it is a performance goals thing. S&C plays the biggest role in injury prevention and prior to this season, it always felt like soft tissue issues and things that could have been prevented.

$15M is not happening lol

We currently have four open spots with Dawuane Smoot, Austin Johnson Quinton Jefferson and Jordan Phillips hitting free agency, likely five if Von Miller is released. Near Locks for the Roster: Ed Oliver DaQuan Jones DeWayne Carter Greg Rousseau AJ Epenesa Solomon could be pushed off, but that depends on whether a free agent or draft pick outperforms him. His spot will be determined by his progress in 2024. They’ll likely sign 2-3 free agents, leaving room for 1-2 draft picks to make the roster. It’s more likely Beane uses those 5th and 6th-round picks to move up in Round 2 or 4 for players he likes rather than cast a wide net at the same position.

Hopefully Ryan Nielsen and Jason Rebrovich can quickly get the DL going after Beane (hopefully) infuses it with some new talent this offseason.

Give me Matthew Golden at 30 and then Alfred Collins and Darius Alexander at 56 and 62.

Alfred Collins popped out to me watching casually during the end of the CFB season. He would be a fun fit, and I'd be thrilled with him at the end of the second round.

And the run with McD, Frazier, Daboll was at the time equalled only by the 49ers and the Saints for continuity at HC-DC-OC. Four seasons with the same three guys is pretty rare in the NFL these days. Sorry, different thread… @GunnerBillgets the credit.

Lol, someone literally just pointed out upthread that the recent consistency of McDermott/Daboll/Frazier for 4 seasons was only matched by New Orleans and San Francisco. And you’re talking about “firing this many coordinators”

2019 is all hindsight. You might’ve wanted investment in the WR room, which is totally fair, but it’s disingenuous to point to AJ Brown and DK Metcalf without also mentioning guys like Mecole Hardman, J.J. Arcega-Whiteside, Parris Campbell, and Andy Isabella, who went between them in the second round. It’s the same thing with Cody Ford. Calling him a bust and saying "it started right away in Training Camp" overlooks the full context. Brandon Beane wasn’t given the choice of “Do you want this bust, Cody Ford, or one of these two All-Pro WRs?” and then sprinting to the podium screaming, "Cody Ford!!" I’m not defending anything, but I don’t believe they’ve been negligent with surrounding Josh with offensive help. They believed in Gabe Davis as a 4th-round hit, and his $10M per year contract shows he wasn’t a miss. The belief in him as the #2 option behind Diggs is the key point here. Did they get it wrong? I think so. But when you have what you believe you have your WR1 and WR2 for the next 3-4 years and Josh Allen as your QB, do you keep investing heavily in WR when you have other needs? There’s been consistent investment in the offensive line until they found the right mix, with plenty of promising depth. The RB room is deeper and more versatile than ever, the TE room is among the best in the NFL, and the WR room has quality pieces. With the right #1, the others should fit in well. We both agree the Bills need to find the right #1 WR this year, but this ties back to your point about them needing to do better in the past. The issue is you can only point to names like AJ Brown, DK Metcalf, Terry McLaurin, or George Pickens, that Buffalo realistically had a chance to acquire, it misses the broader context. Those are good examples, but they weren’t the only options, and even then, that’s just four players over six years that would have legitimately made you happy. Everyone else was a push or a dud.

Obviously, you don't want to lose quality people and talent. People said the same thing when Gaine, Schoen and Morgan left about it being a loss. We still keep humming along - I'll take the 3rd rounders this time.

There are some comments in the quote. So DK Metcalf/AJ Brown in 2019? Sure. It would’ve been nice in hindsight, not sure we can point to the decision to pass on those guys as “giving up.” Then it’s a clear mismatch between your wants and what’s actually realistic in the NFL. No team has attempted to give up the amount of draft capital and money to acquire 2 WR… ever. Let's just say AJ Brown was the guy they went out to acquire, because he was the most reasonably priced... this is what would've been given up acquiring Diggs and Brown in 2/3 off seasons. 2020 first-round pick (No. 22 overall) 2020 fifth-round pick 2020 sixth-round pick 2021 fourth-round pick 2022 first-round pick (No. 24 overall) 2022 third-round pick Stefon Diggs received an extension worth $96M over four years during the 2022 offseason and AJ Brown got $100M over four years upon his trade to Philadelphia. That means the AAV of those two combined was $49M, even if we were spreading bonuses around, it's just a lot tied into one position. Don't forget Josh had just signed his big extension the previous season and the cap hits were going to start creeping up. Salary Cap in 2022 was $208M (24% of Cap) Salary Cap in 2023 was $224M (22% of Cap) Salary Cap in 2024 was $255M (20% of Cap) They weren’t in a position to get a 1B type guy to compliment Diggs before he forced himself out. That bring us to this season, you’re upset because KC “got the guy they wanted”, by the same token, so did Buffalo. It may not be the guy you wanted, but they went and drafted a WR early. The notion of “giving up” isn’t true. They invested resources in other weapons like Cook, Kincaid and the offensive line - if Diggs hadn’t gone berserk, they were actually set up pretty well. Even then, Diggs went off the deep end, got traded and Josh has his best season to date. Now look, I’m in agreement that we need to upgrade the WR room this offseason. I’m just not sure that the last critiques are really fair, and it seems like after thinking through it more deeply, you’re realizing that too.

I missed it the first time around, but he got his start in the NFL under Dave Toub - the Chiefs ST Coordinator who is widely regarded as the best in the business. Chris Tabor is considered to be in the same stratosphere by the players. He worked under coordinator Dave Toub on head coach Lovie Smith's staff. During Tabor's tenure with the Bears, Chicago consistently ranked among the league leaders in numerous departments. The Bears ranked in the top five in no less than nine different special teams categories combined over that three-year period. Chicago led the NFL in total return yards (6,570) and kickoff return yards (5,415), posted the second-best kickoff return average (25.1), ranked third in punt return defense (7.1) and produced the fifth-best punt return average (10.4). The Bears also registered six total kick returns for touchdowns in that time, which tied for second-most in the league. In 2011, Tabor was hired by the Cleveland Browns as their special teams coordinator. During Tabor's tenure in Cleveland, the Browns were the only NFL team to have earned at least one AFC Special Teams Player of the Week award each season from 2011 to 2016. In total, the Browns won seven AFC Special Teams Player of the Week awards. He also oversaw kicker Phil Dawson[5] and returner Joshua Cribbs[6] in 2012 when both were selected to the Pro Bowl, marking just the second time in team history that two specialists made the annual all-star game in the same season. Also during his tenure with the Browns, they led the NFL in punt return average (11.3 yards), were first in kickoff return average against (19.8) and were tied for sixth in punt return touchdowns (4).

You could just link my post next time 😂

Which stint 2010 - 2014 or 2019 - 2024? Or are you counting the time when he was demoted in between? He hasn’t even done that the past 5 drafts, let alone 14 straight seasons. 2020, 2021 and 2024 were WR, WR and DB in RD1.

After his rookie season, things have been more than fine. Right away, they brought in Brown and Beasley for 2019—shrewd moves. In 2020, they paired Diggs with those two and added Gabe Davis, giving the team a strong receiving core with Diggs, Brown, Beasley, and Davis. Brown was gone after 2020, replaced by Emmanuel Sanders. So, in 2021, the group consisted of Diggs, Beasley, Sanders, and Davis. By 2022, the team was down to Diggs and Davis, with more expected from McKenzie and Knox. They also drafted Khalil Shakir. In 2023, Diggs and Davis remained, Shakir had a bigger role, they drafted a TE in the first round, and James Cook took on a larger role. Despite the drama surrounding Diggs, which led to changes in the receiving group, the Allen won MVP with arguably the weakest WR corps since 2019 The notion that they haven’t provided him with real WRs is misguided. This is the first year it's been questionable, and he still won MVP. You’re likely frustrated when comparing the situation to teams like Cincinnati, Philadelphia, and Miami, who have dynamic WR pairings like Chase/Higgins, Smith/Brown, and Waddle/Hill. These teams were in a position to acquire such talent because they went through a period of rebuilding. After selecting their franchise quarterbacks in 2020, they had top 10 draft picks in 2021, which allowed them to target and land premier wide receiver talent. Cincinnati had already secured Tee Higgins, so adding Ja’Marr Chase in 2021 was an amazing draw. Philadelphia and Miami, meanwhile, could make aggressive moves to acquire star receivers like A.J. Brown and Tyreek Hill because their quarterback and WR1 were still on rookie contracts, giving them more financial flexibility. In contrast to other teams, there was no clear, slam-dunk wide receiver option for Buffalo to target in 2019. By 2021, however, there were three top 10 WRs in the draft, and two went in the first round. But even then, no WR was taken in the top 20, and Buffalo had productive veterans already on the roster. They went for the big fish with a trade for a proven star, rather than being able to draft a premier WR early. Since then, they haven’t had the opportunity to pick inside the top 20 again. So, who were the clear, no-brainer WR options Buffalo has been in range to select? In 2023, they had potential picks like Smith-Njigba, Johnston, Flowers, and Addison, but when they tried to trade up, those teams weren’t willing to budge. This year, the only WR within reach was Brian Thomas Jr., but again, they couldn’t make a move to get up there. There were even rumors of the Bills trying to trade into the top 10 for guys like Harrison or Nabers, but that was a steep climb. I guess you can crucify them for trading the pick for Diggs instead of staying there and taking Justin Jefferson? But that's a benefit of hindsight, and they would have been guilty of the exact same thing you're crucifying them right now for doing. They find themselves in the same spot this year, they're not getting into the top 10 for Hunter (if viewed as WR) or McMillan. They may be in range for Burden or Egbuka, but both of those guys profile best in the slot and seem redundant with Khalil Shakir who is pretty damn good. That leaves Tre Harris in that late 1st/2nd range? Seems pretty similar to Keon Coleman, who had some flashes before the injury. What exactly would you have done after the 2021 season? Because that's after Diggs was brought in and the window with Brown, Beasley and Sanders closed. Who are you trading up for in the draft or signing in free agency? Warning, those big contracts in free agency look REALLY bad at first glance. 2021 - Guys that received a contract with an AAV over $10M Corey Davis Curtis Samuel Nelson Agholor 2022 - Guys that received a contract with an AAV over $10M Christian Kirk Allen Robinson Marquez Valdes-Scantling Russell Gage DJ Chark 2023 - Guys that received a contract with an AAV over $10M Odell Beckham Jr. DeAndre Hopkins Allen Lazard Jakobi Meyers 2024 - Guys that received a contract with an AAV over $10M Calvin Ridley Gabe Davis Darnell Mooney Mike Williams There have been 16, and MAYBE Jakobi Meyers has paid off. ***** we've had 3/16 at different points and everyone hated all 3 of them!

Who exactly made the decision to draft Josh Allen? Was it the Buffalo Bills as a faceless entity, or specific individuals in leadership? This article provides a good look at the decision-making group—five people were on that plane experiencing the "mountain wave." Three are still with the team, while the other two are now picking in the top 10 for the third time in four years. https://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/277930/on-josh-allen-bills-hope-all-turbulence-is-behind-them After reading that article and revisiting 2018, did Josh Allen look like a surefire MVP-level quarterback? Or did the decision-makers have to develop a plan to get him there? Did he plateau after two of those decision-makers left, or did he continue to grow and win a MVP while the others made a conscious decision to move forward with Daniel Jones and then failed to develop him? Perhaps Sean McDermott deserves more credit than you've given him for cultivating the environment that allowed Josh Allen to thrive, shaping the conditions for his growth into an MVP-level quarterback.

One was dropped into a scheme that allows him to continue to play man coverage, the other was asked to learn zone coverage and hasn't been able to. The gamble on traits and ability to learn didn't pay off. We haven't seen Elam play man coverage; that's the whole point lol There's no love, ***** happens. The "wasted a 1st round pick" rhetoric is tiresome. ***** happens, if GMs batted 1.000 personnel decisions would never matter. It's hard as ***** and you're trying to boil it down to nothing.

Sauce Gardner is a 2x First-Team All-Pro and Defensive Rookie of the Year, yet he’s been labeled “too handsy.” Does that make him bad in man coverage? You draft for traits and develop the player. It doesn’t always work out, but they don’t have the benefit of hindsight like we do. One is Elam and one is Sauce... Weaknesses Skinny legs with below-average build. Unnecessary disregard for technique. Plethora of holding and interference calls over three years. Grabs and holds when pattern matching goes awry. Some hip tug when trying to flip and run. Footwork needs to become a priority. Average gather-and-go quickness from his pedal. Inconsistent coming to balance in pursuit. Catch-and-drag tackler. Weaknesses Loses his leverage unnecessarily. Allows a little too much clearance early in the route. Needs better open-and-sprint timing when squatting underneath. Vertical specialists can overtake and stack him. Inconsistent digesting route combinations. Too much panic and grab in his 2021 tape. Can improve his eye balance between the man and the ball. Doesn't play to his size in run support duties. Inconsistent coming to balance as open-field tackler.

Lol, yeah, he does—it’s the board members who don’t. Funny how some people here are still stuck on concepts like “McDermott being too conservative” when, statistically, he’s been one of the most aggressive head coaches over the last five years. He’s not just open-minded there—he preaches a Growth Mindset. Ty Dunne dragged him through the mud last year, and McDermott made real adjustments based on the anonymous feedback. People just had to know what to look for. So yeah, he does have that rep. So you expected him to overhaul the entire defense for one player instead of teaching that player the system? So screw the 10 other guys who fit a zone scheme—we’re switching to man because our first-round pick played mostly man at UF? Or maybe they just expected him to learn a new concept? Make that make sense.

Well, they picked on him in zone coverage. Maybe they'll pick on him in man coverage too, but there is a difference in assignment and technique. He's more comfortable in the latter as opposed to the former, it could make a difference.