Seventeen

He didn't the1st time this year - but Reid couldn't stop the Pats either.

The other Josh

Wentz to the Fins, Tannehill to the Jets, McCown to the golf course

Love your optimism John - can't wait for next season with some upgraded weapons.

Allen would be 6-4 as a starter had Clay not dropped the pass in Miami or Peterman screwed up the Houston game. Not too shabby for the toolbox he was handed.

RIP ... Damn, it's been a long run at the Harp. Don't live in Boston anymore, but I was part of a crew in the late 80s that used to get together for the games upstairs at the Fours on Canal (before the Bills Backers). IIRC, the group moved over to the Bell in Hand and then over to the Harp. Always thought it strange to have a Bills club across the street at the time from the Boston Garden.

Give him a cadre of good receivers and we'll see. I don't think Allen will sit around all off-season and do nothing a la Manziel. I think he'll be watching tape, working out and trying to improve his passing, maybe with Jordan Palmer again.

Time for someone to join the ignore list ... I suggest you do the same.

You've been given at least 3 separate examples of multi-year rebuilds with the same HC/GM and you choose to ignore them.

Allen is 4-6 as a starter and could easily be 6-4 if Peterman had not blown the Houston game and Clay catches the TD against Miami. What makes you think the board doesn't understand Allen is a project ? Would we all like to see his completion % go up ? Sure, but I'd also like to see him with viable receiving targets for a year instead of Benjamin, Clay, etc. No one is swooned by anything but his intangibles are good to have. If the Bills somehow go 10-6 next year and Allen is ~55%, I'm good with that. But he needs help.

Like I said, go back and look at the Polian rebuild and I'm sure you can find other examples of multi-year rebuilds outside of the Bills with the same HC/GM. Go look ...

Not just Xmas - some posters really need their own message boards where they can have multiple handles and talk and agree with themselves.

Who said forever - just ain't happening in a year.

Boca needs to call Bill Polian and ask him how long the Bills rebuild took after the 2-14 season in 1985.

Since you are the rebuild genius, give us your detailed plan on how the Bills rebuild next year and win the big one.

Then the Browns should be in the Super Bowl this year with their current rebuild. Or maybe you should look at the Bills rebuild of the mid to late 80s.

Guess it takes longer than a year then ...

How long would you say the Browns have been rebuilding ?

I defend him because he's a rookie playing on a POS team. Go look up how some of the greats did in their first season. No one is saying he doesn't need to improve.

I meant their 1st round, but you do know they haven't clinched a 1st round bye yet ?

Happened twice before up at Gillette. I can't wait until I see something like this again ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:1990_AFC_East_standings

Yeah, but I also realize that Fitz catches everything thrown his way (65 receptions 5 TDs) so his speed isn't an issue. See Kelvin Benjamin ...

I don't see them winning this year with KC & NO or even LA. They might not get out of the 1st round against Houston or Baltimore. Will be interesting to see what BB does if Brady/Gronk retire.

Spot on - how is another game of NFL experience a step back ?

No prob - all of the threads load much faster.