DCOrange

Yeah, last year was just such a bad year. Like if Dak Prescott had won last year (runner up, and maybe the deserving winner), people would still look back on that like "Really guys? Dak freaking Prescott the MVP of the entire league?" but I suppose that would be better than looking at Lamar as a now 3-time MVP? There's a legitimate chance Lamar ends up with the most MVPs all time.

Assuming he stays healthy, Josh will probably get there even if he doesn't win any Super Bowls or MVPs. He'll need some more All Pro teams in that case though probably but provided he stays healthy, he'll probably be like top 5 all time in several statistical categories when he retires.

John Elway won it in 1987 when Joe Montana was the All Pro QB. That's the only time aside from the Co-MVP situation.

One game = a little less than 6% of snaps if every game was the same number of snaps (and I'd guess we ran fewer plays in Week 17 than usual) so Josh basically sat out around 2 games worth of snaps and Lamar sat out roughly 1 game.

That's mostly just due to Lamar missing games in his non-MVP seasons. If you normalize the stats for a 17 game projection, they're basically equal on wins and yards with Josh averaging a handful more TDs and a few more turnovers. More importantly, it doesn't really matter how they played in totality over the last 6 seasons for the MVP. Lamar was the pretty clear choice for MVP the first time around. Last year was a really wonky year where there were zero deserving candidates but somebody had to win it. The fact that all but one guy opted for Lamar is a little weird IMO but Josh didn't have a spectacular year last season either; may have been more deserving than Lamar though. And this year there are two very strong candidates and it looks like he's ultimately going to win out. Just because it's 3 MVPs to 0 doesn't mean it's an example of bias.

Lamar played 97% of their offensive snaps vs. Josh playing 89%. It's really closer to 1 game. At any rate, both extremely worthy candidates this year. Voters made a good choice even if we think Josh may have been a slightly better choice. If you can get those odds anywhere, you probably want to bet on Lamar. I haven't seen anywhere that is still allowing bets on MVP but I'm not degenerate enough to seek it out aside from the one app I use and the other site I used to use.

Yeah, think we can pretty much lock Lamar in now.

The Ravens definitely have more stars/borderline stars than we do. Having said that, our defense has outperformed theirs overall this season (but Baltimore has come on insanely strong down the stretch while we have faltered) and I think pretty much everyone would agree we have a better OLine. Baltimore definitely better receiving weapons though and Henry will be an All Pro (though Cook has been excellent this season too). Ultimately I don't think this line of argument matters very much. Both teams would likely be pretty dreadful if they lost their QB. Both offenses are totally built around their skillsets and they're both so unique that they're essentially impossible to replace.

I think Josh will win, but at least this season, there are multiple options that are objectively very deserving. It's a shame one of the QBs will not win the MVP given the season that they've had but you can't argue in good faith that one of Lamar or Allen are not deserving. They've both been remarkable this season (as has Burrow but he's a distant 3rd in all likelihood).

I personally do not hear a whistle until around the time KC recovers the ball but the one ref runs in signaling false start almost immediately so I have to assume he also blew his whistle. It does seem like illegal shift is probably the correct call but if the play was truly blown dead it shouldn't count anyways.

Could be arguing it was a presnap penalty or could have been upset with his teammate for telling him to snap the ball when the QB wasn't ready.

They likely weren't running a real play. They were most likely just throwing the ball away to take a few more seconds off the clock. Pretty standard in those situations. Nearly 0 risk involved...

He's obviously getting fired. It's just a question of it being tomorrow or at the end of the year.

I think once it got down to like 20-25 seconds left, you kinda have to just run a play and save the timeout, but they should have taken the timeout the second Caleb got sacked. 30 seconds left to run a play anywhere on the field you want and send the field goal unit out to kick it before the clock expires. They should have been able to just save the timeout and get a play off with enough time to take the timeout after too given how close everyone was to the line of scrimmage but the team seemed to have zero situational awareness.

Almost certainly.

I always like looking at both ESPN's QBR and PFF's ratings to see how similar they are and how they differ. QBR had Josh as below average this week, and I believe his first week this season where's contributed negative points to the team relative to an average QB. They also had Geno rated as the worst QB in the league this week though lol. This week's performance dropped Josh from being #1 on the year to #4 behind Joe Burrow, Lamar Jackson, and Kyler Murray. Top 10: Burrow Lamar Kyler Josh Jayden Daniels Jalen Hurts Patrick Mahomes Trevor Lawrence Brock Purdy Kirk Cousins

Correct, reportedly something he's considering (and some sources have heard he for sure is doing).

That would be fine with me. I'm just so over taking 5 minute breaks to still get calls wrong half the time. Or taking 5 minute breaks to get this call right but there's a million other plays you either don't or can't review so it's not like you're really doing it to make sure the "right" team wins. All these replay reviews do IMO is waste our time.

There was never really a time where you weren't required to get two feet in though and that's really the issue at play. Does he get two feet in after securing the ball? Because of the way he moved the ball, the NFL's answer would be that he failed to get two feet in. I agree with the idea of getting rid of replay reviews though; more trouble than its worth IMO.

Wasn't sure if we start a new Syracuse thread or just update the title of this one each year, but I'm hearing some good things about our recruiting efforts. Everyone knows Kiyan Anthony is almost certainly coming to Syracuse but there's a lot of buzz that we will also be getting Alex Costanza, currently a top 10-20 recruit depending on the rankings you look at. If we do ultimately get Kiyan and Costanza and keep Sadiq White in the fold, I think we're talking about roughly a top 5-10 class in the country.

From this point of view, it's interesting to compare this play and the Kincaid one a week ago. IMO Kincaid never really had control of the ball, but it didn't move all that much; you could just tell looking at it that it wasn't secure. Here, Coleman had the ball securely pinned to his body, not moving at all, and then solidified possession with the left hand later. I think if we're ignoring the actual rules, Coleman did have pretty secure control of the ball through all of that. But based on the way the NFL applies the rules, that brief moment where he goes from having it pinned to his body to then shifting it to his hand constitutes a loss of possession so it restarts the two-feet aspect.

Yeah, I'm honestly not sure how I think the penalty should actually be applied because if you try to really apply the rule the way it sounds (penalizing throws that are intentionally inaccurate) it adds a pretty severe amount of subjectivity to it. It just feels silly to name the penalty intentional grounding when the league lets QBs spike those screen passes intentionally all the time.

Intentional grounding drives me crazy too. The actual plays that are penalized are often not actually intentional (ex: QB throws a ball expecting a vertical route but the WR breaks it off just as he's throwing so it looks like there's no intended target). Meanwhile purposefully spiking the ball at the RB's feet on a screen pass is not "intentional".

I don't really understand why it took so long to begin with. I think one viewing of the first angle should have been enough to overturn it. Personally I just hate replay reviews in almost all sports. With the exception of sports like tennis and cricket, there's a decent chance the refs still get the call wrong and all we've accomplished is wasting more time. Games are long enough as is; much better as a viewer if they just make a call and move on IMO. For example, some professional soccer tournaments use VAR and some do not. The ones that do not use VAR are way more watchable to me.

It doesn't really matter once he switched hands the way he did. That act where the ball moved and he switched from having it pinned to his stomach to holding it in his hand essentially resets the process of establishing possession. And once that happens, it was very clear that he did not get two feet in. If he had kept the ball pinned to his stomach the whole way through, it would have been a catch.