MrEpsYtown

I don't think I missed anybody. 5 starting linemen out of 50 who were top ten picks. First round picks? Yeah there are more. But out of those top ten o lines, just five top ten picks. You are missing one big point, and that is that the Bills have done a ***** job of doing anything for the last 15-20 years or so. That has absolutely nothing to do with the current regime. Sure this concept has not worked for us, but it has worked with pretty much every other good team in the league. A lot of people want to go ahead and draft Jonah Williams in the top ten. He looked like garbage when playing against NFL level competition, and there are a whole bunch of questions if he can even stick at tackle. Making a pick like that is simply idiotic. It's a reach, and it's what gets GMs fired. This team hasnt really bothered to draft many offensive linemen in the mid to late rounds. There are years in which they drafted no linemen at all. I like the thought process of the Teller and Dawkins picks. That's what I want to see more of. Not reaches in the first round. Please tell me who all all of these amazing top ten picked offensive linemen are around the league. If you look at the playoff teams is year there are a few. Tyron Smith, Eric Fisher (largely considered a bust), Ronnie Stanley, Russel Okung (not his original team), Quentin Nelson, Lane Johnson. That's six guys who were drafted in the top ten. If you want to look at top offenses in the NFL, KC had Fisher, Indy had Nelson, the Chargers had Okung, and the Falcons had Mathews and Mack. That's 5 guys. Those are the only top ten drafted offensive linemen who are starting on the top ten scoring offenses in the NFL in 2018. Fisher is considered a bust, and Okung and Mack are not with the teams who drafted them. What you do see is a ton of late first round picks, second round and third round picks, and UDFAs. Joe Thomas really did a ton to help the Browns be winners. The Titans have a left tackle drafted eleventh and a right tackle drafted eight, and they still suck. And their best lineman is their left guard who went undrafted. It's about using resources wisely and building a team. There is not really a formula, but reaching in the top ten to fill a hole is the worst thing you can do. This is not not a theory, it is a fact. There are so many busted top ten linemen in the NFL and it is a terrible place to reach for a guy to fill a hole. Draft BPA and do not draft for need. Be wise and target the guys in the mid rounds who can will fit what you what to do and will improve your team.

Going back to the Patriots, the highest drafted guy is Joe Tuney who was a 3rd rounder. They use mid round resources to grab guys from great football programs. Every once in awhile they use a first rounder on a left tackle like Wynn or Nate Solder. When you look at those top ten offensive lines in the NFL, only Quentin Nelson, Ronnie Stanley, Lane Johnson, Jack Conklin and Greg Robinson were top ten picks. Robinson is a bust on his third team who seemed to figure it out and Conklin only played in 9 games. That's five guys out of 50 starting linemen. I agree with you in that you have to find the right players. But I also feel that the top ten is not the place ever to do it, unless you ar getting an elite can't miss guy like Nelson. Simply find the right guys in the middle to late part of the draft.

I agree. What the Patriots do is the find lineman from the college teams that still actually coach linemen how to play. Iowa, Georgia, Wisconsin, NC State and some of the smaller schools with pro style type of offenses. Shaq Mason came from Georgia Tech, where all they did was run the ball. Norte Dame guys work too. To me that is the issue, and the answer. Too many spread type offenses in college do not properly prepare linemen for success in the NFL. Guys get picked high becuase of projection, see Joeckel, Luke (2013's Jonah Williams). Guys from universities that teach linemen the right way are the way to draft.

Yeah I'm not sure we will ever know, but in my mind I pin it on both of them. Matt Barkley was the most successful Bills quarterback to come out of that draft. It really was a crap quarterback year. Some pretty good undrafted players like AJ Bouye and Adam Thielen came out of that draft.

My gut tells me that he had final say in terms of personnel. He was being groomed to be the guy for a very long time. His biggest mistake was choosing EJ Manuel. Because after that he spent a ton of resources to try and help the guy, who simply did not have it. That's the main motivation for the Clay and Watkins overpays. And the braintrust did not help matters becuase they did not let him pick his coach. He constantly clashed with Rex and Dougie. Though he would have picked Hue Jackson and we would have wound up with the number 1 overall pick and either Carson Wentz or Jared Goff.

Its amazing that some people still defend Tyrod. He was just awful. Missing guys every where and holding the ball forever.

I really want to see this guy in a room having a talk with Vontaze Burfict about his antics. Could be great television.

Tyler Kroft and a few other guys make sense too. I like Demetrius Harris of the Chiefs as well, but he's long and lean, very similar to Croom. We need a guy who can block.

A couple guys make a lot of sense. Jesse James of the Steelers is probably my favorite. Jeff Huereman of the Broncos is pretty good as well. Maxx Williams would be cool but I think he's more of a #2. Tyler Higbee of the Rams is probably available via trade. He was drafted for Rob Boras when he was OC with the Rams and he currently serves as our tight ends coach. Rumors were the Rams wanted a sixth round pick for him. All young, bigger guys with upside.

I think they definitely cut Josh Sitton, and probably Daniel Kilgore and Ted Larsen. I would define Sitton as good. But he missed most of the season this year and is going to be 33 years old. He's an experienced guy who might make for an interesting stopgap somewhere, but that's pretty much it. Kilgore is a smaller zone center. He's 31. He was the guy they Niners re-signed then when they signed Weston Richburg, they traded Kilgore to the Dolphins. I would say that he's ok, but he's not better than Russell Bodine. Plus Bodine is younger, bigger, stronger, and has more experience. And Ted Larsen is pretty bad.

I hear you. I guess my point is that Josh Allen has the higher upside. He's an elite talent, whereas Dupree is a pretty good NFL player.

I think the issue there is that Nelson happened to be a "once in a while elite player," like a Zach Martin. When those guys are there you take them. But if its projection and question marks, you can't take them in the top ten. Way more failures than success stories.

Its the same. The history of top ten offensive linemen is not good. There are a lot of huge busts and disappointments and a few really good players.

I think he's been up and down but his numbers have been okay. He did not get along with Gase, but Gase is also a huge douche.

Thanks! Anytime!

I like Bud Dupree. He's like a poor mans Josh Allen, and could be an eventual replacement for Lorax as a guy who can play off the ball and play as an edge guy. Devante Parker is relatively interesting, and perhaps Malik Jackson if you can't find a better defensive tackle in free agency or the draft.

Yes defintely. He's a tough SOB for sure. He dealt with some terrible hip pain for years dating back to college and kept on playing. Finally had surgery on both. I would guess he's got maybe 4-5 years left in his career. Morse is a bit younger and has had concussion issues, but should have a longer shelf life. They both have their issues health wise. I'd say both are probably in that Eric Wood type of talent level, maybe a bit better. They are not Alex Mack or Travis Frederick, but they are both pretty damn good.

I strongly prefer Morse but would be absolutely ecstatic with either. People who love PFF love Paradis. He's very highly rated there. I've studied both a bit and I think Morse is better, though I have seen a lot more of Morse. I've loved Morse since draft time when he was a left tackle at Mizzou. And just to add, playing center in an Andy Reid offense is not easy. It's pretty demanding and he has had some really good ones over the years.

Btw Morse is on NFL network right now vs Ravens. Guy is so good.

Bodine-Sirles-Boettger is somewhat decent depth, but should be upgraded with draft picks. Swing tackle to get in UFA is Josh Wells. No one really knows about him, but he's started quite a few games for the Jaguars at both right and left tackle. He is the definition of the perfect swing tackle. Smart, versatile, and won't get anyone killed out there.

I try to keep things optimistic. Yolo, y'know. No time for pessimism.

It's a cap issue. They have to pay Dee Ford, Steven Nelson etc. Plus eventually Tyreek Hill and Chris Jones. I think they are in a tough spot. They got some production out of Austin Reiter, and with LD-Tardif returning, they probably feel they don't aren't in a position to pay Morse top dollar. I think they want him back, but won't be able to afford him.

Long has a bit of a nasty streak as well, which is something I really like. My hopeful and optimistic outlook is that we sign Morse and Williams and Long plays RG, with either Teller or an upgrade at LG. Teller-Morse-Long in the interior are three really smart guys with nasty streaks. I would love it.

Paradis will be a Jet in my opinion. He's a perfect zone player for Gase. He played for Gase and was drafted for his offense. It's the most obvious fit in free agency. Bills fans, Mitch Morse is the better player for us. He's a converted left tackle, so he has a much better skill set and is scheme versatile. I know PFF rates Paradis higher, but I don't care. Morse is younger, bigger, and an overall better athlete. He has not surrendered a sack since his rookie season. He's bigger, faster, stronger, longer, and younger. The only red flag is the concussions, but we need to make Mitch Morse happen. He's the perfect fit for us.

I thought he played really well when he was in there. IN terms of the injury stuff, first year back from a torn ACL and a PED situation, sometimes a guy has to workout the kinks. I'm optimistic that he will be better and the fact that McDermott rotates guys makes me feel good about that. All that said, his contract does not keep them from possible cutting him this offseason if they see fit. If they would prefer to allocate that money to someone like Trey Flowers, they can easily move on.