Motorin'

Long term, I'd take Mahomes too. Just saying that I think Lamar's total offensive production this year, considering that he averaged 7 yards per carry, is up there with the best single season performances ever. He also only played 15 games.

He's definitely not the best passer, though he's a very good passer. But the dynamic running element he adds is off the charts.

Rushing for 1,200 yards is way more impressive in a season than throwing for 1,200 yards. We're talking about individual performance.

So 1000 yards rushing is the same as 1000 yard passing? How come rb's don't run for 4000 a season?

I was at the Ravens game, he might have been of of those dudes who kept screaming "He's not a qb!" at the top of lungs all game.

Why is it funny? Who has come close that level of combined production?

It would be one think if most of Jackson's production came on the ground. But he threw 36 Td's to 6 INT's while adding 1200 rushing yards. This might be the best single season ever.

Times have changed for the better organizational. Fan and media behavior is another question.

I don't disagree.

Recent, no. I remember an article about how the Pats mine Bills, Fins and Jets media interviews for valuable intel. One instance I remember explicitly, this was a while ago, Fred Jackson was being interviewed after a big win and the reporter pressed him to explain how he was able to make a certain big play. Fred was really happy about it, and went into great detail about what his read was on the play and how the defensive alignment effected his decision. Now, maybe FredX was coached up to give misinformation, but I don't think so. The article, if I remember correctly, said the Bills were amongst the biggest offerders at giving key information away during interviews. I hope this is something McD continues to get better at coaching his team on... He and his coaching staff seem to do a pretty good job of handling the media without giving away specifics.

Josh's 2nd season compares favorably to Eli's 2nd season. Eli threw for more yards, and a few more touchdowns. But he also threw more picks and had a lower QB rating that Josh on the year. Both teams were wild card contenders. But Eli's performance didn't improve in his third year, and then regressed in his 4th year. He won the Super Bowl in his 5th year. As far as motivations of others, good point. Perhaps it's the negative emoting that bothers me.... Much longer discussion on how people get run out of Buffalo, but the fan base and media have had a pretty strong effect on management decisions (particularly when those decissions seemed marketing driven) and have the ability to make life miserable for players and coaches.

I do. The Bills historically have been terrible at giving away information in their player interviews.

I'd prefer Eli Manning and his two Super Bowls than Dan Marino's all HOF career. My point as it relates to Josh Allen is that a good majority of people here would have run Eli out of town in their demands for good quality quarter backing. I'm not sure what Josh's ceiling will be, and what his career arc will look like. And neither are you. But if anything in the last 20 years of Bills football that consisted of constant criticism and running people out of town thought me anything is that the team needs time, and cohesion. And you're kidding yourself if you don't think resentment fuels much of the JA criticsm around here. It seems like in the minds of many that because we could have had Mahomes Josh will never be good enough, his bad plays will be magnified and people won't accept that he's needs time to continue to improve.

Yeah, I want my team to win the super bowl.

From another lifelong Bills fan, we can play "who we should have drafted" until we shrivel up and die of resentment and self-hatred... Why does the "Is Josh Allen good enough" debate have to happen every gd week? Ah, yes, it's because of "what could have been." Daryle Lamonica... Maybe there can be one thread for "Post your Josh Allen criticisms / comparisons here."

So basically you're not comfortable with uncertainty and aren't willing to accept that growth and development are part of the process of developing as a QB? But why take it out on everyone else? We fight to prove that Josh Allen isn't an all pro franchise QB? Like, we know that. He's not there, yet. He may become one. He may not. But I think he can become as good as a Jeff Hostelter, Tent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Eli Manning, Joe Flacco or Nick Foles. Maybe we want different things. I want the Buffalo Bills to win the Super Bowl once before I die. That's it. Would it be nice to have the next Tom Brady who smashes all the records and brings home 8 Super Bowls in his career. Sure. But I'd rather have a competent QB who learns to play the game good enough to win one championship (at least, two would be gravy) than a guy with big stats every year who never gets it done.

I really wanted the Bills to draft Watson. They didn't. But if we're going to play fantasy, I'd rather have 1994 Steve Young for the next 50 years.

at this point, it's clear the Bills management holds this view too. And short of significant regression, Josh is going to be the starting qb for many years. This every day debate about whether Josh is an NFL quality qb is exhausting.

Define better. They both threw more INT's than Josh. 7 of Murray's picks came in his last 5 games. Josh threw 3 INT's in his last 11 games. And is Daniel Jones really having a better year than Josh Allen? His 3,000 passing yards and 26 TD's are better than Josh Allen's 3,000 passing yards and 30 TD's? These are really the margins that you're staking your "Josh Allen isn't good enough" claims on to prove that young qb's are way out performing him all over the league? I think a lot of fans negativity towards Josh is fueled by resentment and it's clouding their ability to accept where he's at as well as his ability to continue to get better. EDIT - envy is another deadly sin my brethren Bills fan!

Like winning 10 games and taking his team to the playoffs? How many QBs did that in their second year? I get it, in retrospect you wish the Bills had selected Mahomes. At the time I wanted Bills to take Watson. Resentment is a subtle poison. Unless you can build a time machine and change the course of history, why don't you accept there's only a few championship caliber qb's right out of college. The rest have to develop. Or are you one of the guys pining over Gardner Minshew, Kyle Allen, what Duck Hodges? Aside from Watson and Mahomes, now in their 3rd season, what young QB all over the league do you think is way out performing Josh Allen?

What excuses? The guy's progressing as well as you'd hope a 2 year QB will. I'm sick of the unrealistic demands and expectations.

Hey, if you don't win 6 Super Bowls in your first 2 years as a head coach there's no chance you'll ever develop a championship caliber team.

The idea that this regular season proves the Bills can't or won't become championship caliber in future seasons, and that they need to fire McDermott, is ludicrous. We don't know what the future will bring. I'm expecting significant progress across multiple domains over the next few years. Progress on the overall roster via FA and draft. Progress on the field as young players develop. And progress from coaching staff as far as in game strategy goes. I also expect set backs and bumps on the road. But I'd rather give this group, Bean, McD ect. the reigns for better or worse for as long as possible. We might get 1 championship in the next 10 years. But continuing the last 20 years of firing, hiring, firing, hiring, to satsify fans like the OP will be lucky to bring 1 playoff appearance in the next 10 years.

Let's rip everything down and rebuild, every 3 years, for the next 20 years! Fire every one! Bring in a new GM, make the switch to a 3-4. Let's have a QB controversy, maybe Jason Garrett's available? He has playoff experience. Maybe Tony Romo will come out of retirement and bring the band back together? The Bills ARE going move to Toronto............... So tired of amateur Steven A. Smith / Max Kellermen hot takes. The real ones are bad enough.

Only caught the last 5 mins. How about Najee Harris as that thumper power back? Watching him drag the entire Michigan front 7 down the length of the field was impressive!