SoTier

You know this how? How many season/individual game tix do you think the Bills would have sold if they had traded Watkins in June? The tickets have largely been sold. There are probably some left for the late season games and the least attractive ones, but I think the timing of the Watkins trade was definitely to maximize ticket sales.

^^^ What do you guys define as "a few"? 5? 10? 17? IMO, Beane is simply another henchman carrying out orders from Russ Brandon. The moves the Bills made this past off season and in training camp all stink of the very same philosphy of putting profitability far above winning that's been going on for the last 17 years. The team will never get significantly better when it constantly sheds its best young talent rather than pay them, which is exactly what it did again this year by letting Gilmore leave and shipping Watkins off. The Bills are back where they have been just about every year since 2002: scrambling to fill the holes created by not keeping the talent they already had and spinning in the media about how their fill-ins are "just as good" as the talented players who are gone. The only thing that's "new" -- well, sort of -- is that Beane is trying to spin these moves as something original: "building for the future while winning games". Right-o. Anybody want to buy a slightly used but recently rehabbed four lane bridge over Chautauqua Lake? I've got it for sale cheap.

My first thought when I read the OP was "Marrone knows what he's got in Bortles". Obviously, numerous posters in this thread only consider that Bortles was the first QB taken in the 2014 draft ...

The Bills have names filled in on their depth chart and they have bodies wearing WR numbers on the field that include an aging vet, a JAG, and a 2nd round rookie. They have a TE who can catch the ball when he's targeted. That does not equate to an "NFL caliber" receiving corps. It's been so long since the Bills actually fielded one -- 2002 -- that apparently most fans have forgotten what that includes: actual, bonafide #1 and #2 WRs, a slot receiver, an Hback or RB and a TE -- all of whom can catch the ball and block. As for the defense, whatever improvement comes from the DL and/or front 7 is going to be lost by the secondary. Unlike the Bills, most of the teams the Bills face this year understand that even just competent QBs like Andy Dalton and Ryan Tannehill can be successful if they have targets and protection ... and a lot of this year's opponents have QBs far better than just "competent".

No, I think "gift" is exactly the right word, but then, I like irony ... and sarcasm. Trust The Process because stripping the team of its good/elite young talent for draft picks has repeatedly proven to be the best way to build a championship team. Other than being billionaires, what qualifications do the Pegulas have for hiring Beane and McDermott? Their choice of Rex Ryan as HC? Hate to bust your bubble, but it was the Pegulas who were pretty instantly conned by Ryan's schtick when the advisors whom you disparage wanted another candidate. See above. For all the Pegulas' claims, their process is EXACTLY the same one that has resulted in 17 non-playoff seasons: let top talent leave rather than pay them, con the fans by dangling the promise of draft picks, and use JAGs and draft picks to fill the holes left by the departed talented players ... Oh, yeah, and laugh all the way to the bank at the gullibility of Bills fans.

No, a hallmark of a total disinterest in winning.

The Bills have been building for the future for twenty years but they haven't gotten there yet. Maybe they should try building for now.

Without an NFL caliber receiving corps, an OL that doesn't pass protect particularly well, and a pretty poor secondary? The playoffs are a pipdream.

The Bills have made the giving away their best talent into a unique art form over the length of the playoff drought. Most crappy teams simply fail to recognize and acquire talent. The Bills aren't that bad. They've proven that they are at least adequate in finding talent, and pretty good finding good players in the later rounds and among free agents. Their problem is that they then turn around and give it away, primarily because they aren't willing to pay to keep talented players. They are constantly using their top draft picks to fill the holes created by the previous top players who have been sent off to help teams like Minnesota, Chicago, Philadelphia, Seattle, and New England win playoff games ... and even the Super Bowl. Under Doug Whaley that seemed to change to some extent but the current regime has resurrected it full blown again. They let Pro Bowl DB Gilmore walk and used their 2017 first round pick to draft his replacement. They traded away their elite WR, and hype a journeyman and an unproven rookie as "just as good". They peddle the idea of future draft picks turning into wins the way televangelists peddle salvation. Most definitely, they're playing Bills fans for suckers.

I'm not sure that Cousins is all that much better than Tannehill or Dalton. Maybe he's as good as Flacco, but the Bills sure aren't good enough on offense to support Tannehill, Dalton or Flacco. Their receivers suck. Their OL is better at run blocking than pass protection. Even legendary QBs like Brady, Manning, and Rodgers need targets and protection, much less merely mortal ones. Unfortunately, the Bills are going to draft a QB in the first round in 2018 whether they have the #1 pick or the 32nd, even if the 2018 QB class stinks to high heaven. A well-hyped first round QB will put butts in the seats. Mark Sanchez took the Jests to the AFC Championship as a rookie and sophomore. He never progressed from where he was about in the middle of his sophomore season. Josh Freeman's sophomore season saw him put up some impressive stats and end the year with a QB rating of 90+. He looked like a winner in 2010 ... and then bottom fell out. Vince Young, Robert Griffin III, Colin Kaepernick, Nick Foles, and numerous other apparent franchise QBs were all hot young guns for a season or two before they crashed and burned. I'm with Buffalo Hokie13 that they've got to show that they can play competently for about 3 seasons before they got anointed as future stars. ^^^ I think this has been a trend since about 2011 when Dalton went in the 2nd round. In 2012, Wilson came out of the 3rd and Cousins out of the fourth. 2013 was a dud year but in 2014, the best QB is Carr from the 2nd round. Before that, not many quality starters came out of the later rounds, just Brady (6th in 2000), Brees (2nd in 2001), and Schaub (3rd in 2004). I don't think anything would have helped him. QBs either have it or they don't, and I don't think Manuel is starter material. It's not a judgement on him as a person, just an evaluation of his talent. Just because I'm tone-deaf and can't carry a tune in a bucket doesn't make me a terrible person, just somebody who has no musical talent.

"In Beane and McDermott I trust. That’s not a bad thing." ... Well, then, I'm sure you'll enjoy you'll enjoy the exciting 6-3 snorefest losses to assorted NFL bottom-feeders and all the 4 or 5 TD losses to real NFL teams over the next few years while awaiting the arrival of the glorious savior QB to be named later.

What if the only "top guy" is another EJ Manuel?

Yepper. Trading your starting QB for a CB after the first preseason game when TJ Yates and a fifth round rookie are your backups seems the perfect recipe for engineering a tank for a mythical savior to be named later while maximizing profits with ticket sales revenue and salary savings. It's another master stroke by that genius Russ Brandon.

You are right about the Bills being more than a QB away from being a playoff threat. Even when the Bills draft their new first round QB in 2018, they will still not playoff contenders for the foreseeable future. Yeah, and if they don't get him in 2019, then they can trade away whatever little remaining talent they have left on the team to try again in the 2020 draft. That sounds like a plan! Of course there "was a lot more to it". Matthews is a whole lot cheaper than Watkins in current, real salary for 2017, future draft picks don't cost any $$$ until they're actually used, and fans will accept the crappy offensive production because they'll be dreaming of the Bills drafting the next Peyton Manning. When the Bills send Taylor packing early on next year, they'll save his bonus $$$ and salary in 2018, too ... just like they did with Fitzpatrick in 2013 when they drafted EJ Manuel. The second greatest QB draft was in 2004, which likely will produce 2 HOFers (Roethlisberger and E Manning) which saw 4 QBs taken in the first round (#1, #4, #11, and #22). The first three QBs were successful as was 3rd rounder Matt Schaub who was a decent starter for several years. The Bills, of course, traded away their 2005 first rounder to move back into the first round and take the fourth first round QB, JP Losman, thus losing all chance of drafting Aaron Rodgers in 2005. BTW, all of the QBs taken in the first rounds of the 2002 (3), 2006 (3), 2007(2), 2010(3), and 2013(1) drafts were busts with the exception of Jay Cutler who went #11 in 2006. That's 1 hit in 12 (about an 8% success rate). Of course, the Bills, in their infinite and unerring wisdom, decided to trade up to grab TJ Graham in the third round of the 2012 draft rather than take Russell Wilson, but they traded back in 2013 to get another draft pick that eventually resulted in Sean McCoy coming to Buffalo, so I guess they really do know what they're doing.

They going to take a QB in the first round in 2018 even if, like 2013, there isn't a real prospect there. Like 2013, they are going to cut Taylor before the March deadline so they not only don't have to pay him but also so that they don't have a viable QB on the roster. They will do that because a first round QB will put butts in the seats and $$$ in the coffers, not because the next Jim Kelly is available.

Agree with both posts. This trade stinks the same way the Jason Peters and Marshawn Lynch trades stunk, and the knee-jerk approval of Bills fans of all three simply demonstrates why it's unlikely that the Bills will seriously seek to put a winning team on the field any time in the foreseeable future. With most of the team revenue coming from tv money, it's much more profitable for the Bills to suck than to be competitive, particularly when apparently there's no move the FO can make that will deter fans blindly supporting the team.

Especially those from the Bills FO.

This is, in words of the immortal Yogi Berra, "deja vu all over again." The Bills did the same thing to Drew Bledsoe in 2003 after he set Bills season passing records in 2002. They traded away #2 WR Peerless Price and released starting TE Jay Reimersma and H-back Larry Centers rather than pay them. Now, the question is, will the Bills replay 2004 when they traded a bunch of picks to draft a crappy first round QB or will they emulate 2013 when they drafted a first round QB even though there wasn't a single QB in that draft who merited being drafted? Only if the team has a decent receiving corps, which the Bills haven't had since 2002. At present, with the exception of Boldin, the Bills don't even have a WR corps at all, just guys wearing WR numbers.

You forgot Russell Wilson who went in the 3rd round in 2012. The Bills passed on him to take trade up to take TJ Graham who couldn't stay healthy and couldn't catch the ball when he was healthy! I will add specifics to your post: there wasn't even 1 Tannehill quality QB in the 2002, 2007, 2010, 2013 drafts. It's also likely that Bortles, from 2014, won't turn out to be much, either, as he regressed last season. Moreover, even when there is a diamond in the draft, a team still has to find him. In 1999, the #1 pick, Tim Couch, went to Cleveland, Philadelphia took Donovan McNabb at #2, and Cinci took Akili Smith at #3. Minnesota took Daunte Culpepper at #11. McNabb was a bonafide franchise QB and Culpepper was decent for several years, Couch and Smith sucked.

Agree. I think the last time a team built a powerhouse team from having a bunch of high picks all in one draft was when San Diego got a bunch for trading Eli Manning to the Giants for Phillip Rivers (2004/2005). Before that, it was probably Dallas back in the late 1980s from trading Herschel Walker to the Vikings. Crappy teams make crappy personnel decisions, and consequently, their drafts suck even when they have numerous high picks. The Bills have proven that to be true throughout their history, most recently in 2009 when they had 2 first rounders and 2 second rounders in 2009 IIRC -- and blew the best one on one of their worst busts: Aaron Maybin. I see no reason to think that the Bills won't screw the pooch once again.

I'll stand by what I said months ago: I will consider the season a success only if the Bills make the playoffs or win 10 games. Anything less is unacceptable.

It's hard to imagine that would be possible, but the Bills always manage to do the impossible ... as long as it doesn't involve winning. It is exactly what the Bills have done this entire century: get rid of their best talent because they don't want to pay them and then sell the dollar store crap they keep or acquire as "just as good" to the true believers who continuously defend their moves. Major examples under previous regimes include Antoine Winfield, Nate Clements, Pat Williams, Ruben Brown, Jason Peters, Marshawn Lynch, and Chris Hogan. Allowing Gillmore to leave and trading Watkins are EXACTLY the same bull manure, no matter how you want it to be different. The only "data" that matters to OBD is the $$$ that they won't have to pay out for these players.

No, I'd be doing exactly what I'm going to be doing this season instead of watching the Bills suck again in another endless "rebuilding" season: watching Pittsburgh or Seattle or Atlanta or other professional football teams play interesting football games via NFL Sunday ticket. The Bills were nothing more than the NFL's #1 farm team during Ralph Wilson's last decade and a half of ownership, and the Pegulas are continuing that proud tradition.

Same old, same old. If you ever wondered how so many people can become victims of scams, just consider that despite the fact that the Bills have failed to make the playoffs for 17 straight years, they have managed to sell the hope of another resurrection to so many of their fans by trading away two of their best players ...

Dude, if you think the only impediment to the Bills actually drafting a competent NFL QB in 2018 is the competition, you are living in Fantasy Land. The 2002, 2006, 2007, 2010, and 2013 drafts didn't produce a top QB, and the verdicts are still out on 2014-2017. Furthermore, in most drafts, there's at best, only 1 quality QB ... and not all of them were Top 3 or Top 5 picks. The only two drafts that have produced multiple HOF/likely HOF QBs since the merger were 1983 and 2004, which means there's a whole lot of both astute evaluation and luck involved in selecting the right collegiate QB to draft. Now, maybe you have confidence in the Bills organization to pick the right QB, but not me. Nothing about the current regime suggests that they're any better than Ralph Wilson's incompetent bunch, particularly given that the owners have failed to significantly improve the Sabres during their tenure despite all their shuffling of GMs, coaches, and players. BTW, since the Polian era, the Bills drafting record has been simply horrendous, and not just at the QB position. They always pick the wrong guy. Consider that the Bills gave up their 2005 first round pick to draft JP Losman in 2004 ... and thus lost out on Aaron Rodgers in 2005 (who went #24 or #25) and they passed on Russell Wilson in 2012 for a WR who couldn't catch and then drafted EJ Manuel in 2013. Some of their other first round busts were even worse ... like Aaron Maybin.