SoTier

I think "a coach being incompetent" is more accurate.

I totally agree. Anybody who's watched other teams' third preseason games can easily see how bad the Bills are even if they won't admit. The 2017 Bills are reminiscent of the worst of Jauron's teams ... and maybe even as bad as the utterly uncompetitive of teams from the late1970s or the mid/late 1980s. They are pathetic.

Excellent post, mjt. I will add 2 points to what you said. Belichick, when he was HC in Cleveland and DC in New York, also got an awful lot out of whatever talent he had to work with because he devised offenses/defenses to fit his players' strengths. Remember, the Giants that beat the Bills in the Super Bowl, did so with a backup QB and a stout defense. The offense in preseason bears a sickening resemblance to the great offenses that Jauron put on the field ... you remember the epic ones that lost 6-3 to Cleveland and 12-6 to the Niners at home? (//sarcasm off for the literally minded folks). Well, here we go again. I peg the over under for games where the Bills offense fails to score a TD at 6 myself. My take on the situation that the Bills have been in for the past 17 years and look to still be mired in is that, yes, it is the coaches, but who hires the coaches? The suits in the FO, be that Russ Brandon or the ownership, have to take responsibility for hiring HCs who want/allow/insist on running their own schemes whether or not they fit the players. If they have a good defense -- as they had in 2014 -- then why hire a HC who wants to use another scheme that is likely to make most of your defense uncomfortable? There were no other candidates out there who favored the 3-4 defense? Maybe they weren't buffoons enough? Why was McDermott, who had only been a DC not a HC, given a blank slate to bring in an OC and position coaches who radically change the offense? The Bills couldn't have found another first time HC willing to build on the solid foundation the offense had??? In IT, most programmers/system administrators/managers subscribe to the maxim, "don't fix what ain't broke". The Bills need to adopt that saying as their mantra and hire in accordance with it.

And the Bills do? They passed on Marino to take Kelly in 1983 which might have been a mistake if you believe that Marino was a better QB than Kelly. They definitely missed on Losman in 2004 and Manuel in 2013. They passed on both Wilson and Cousins in 2012. The Jests, OTOH, took Ken O'Brien in 1983 and Chad Pennington in 2000. Neither were HOFers but both were decent enough QBs,and Pennington was certainly better than any QB not named Jim Kelly that the Bills have drafted since the merger. LOL. The Bills screwed the pooch in 2004,which produced 3 great QBs and 1 decent one, and sat out 2012 when again 4 franchise caliber QBs were available. ^^^ Well, it was supposed to be back in 2012, though. There was supposed to be a new era of great collegiate QBs flooding the NFL. After all, 4 QBs went in the first 12 picks in 2011 and 4 more in the first round in 2012, and 2012 first round rookies Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III took their teams to the playoffs as did third round rookie, Russell Wilson. 2011 2nd rounder Andy Dalton took the Bengals to the playoffs as both a rookie and a sophomore, and it looked like the Vikings had a keeper in 2011 first rounder Christian Ponder who took them to the playoffs as a sophomore. That's in addition to the heroics of 2011 sophomores Colin Kaepernick and Nick Foles. Of course, when the dust settled, Cam Newton and Andy Dalton were the only first or second round QBs to last from 2011, and the best QB from the 2012 draft was third rounder Wilson followed by Luck, Cousins, and Tannehill. All the others crashed and burned.

You can start your counting of the playoff-less seasons with the Pegulas if you wish, but don't try to tell me where I should start my count! My guess is that there's not much difference between Wilson's ownership and the Pegulas' because Russ Brandon is still running the show, which he has done since at least 2006. McDermott is the same kind of modestly credentialed HC that Jauron, Gailey, and Marrone were. Beane's resume is simiilarly limited, and my guess is that he's little more than a figurehead ... since the Bills hired McDermott before they bothered to hire him. The wholesale departure of talent this off-season, beginning with Gilmore, as well as the trades with KC and LA, suggests the same kind of scheme to minimize personnel costs while selling the fans crap disguised as hope that was the hallmark of the Bills from 2006 through 2014. The team that the Bills have fielded in preseason is eerily reminiscent of the crappy, penalty-laden teams the Bills fielded under Jauron. Even in the third preseason game, the offense can't get out of its own way. Maybe you haven't bothered to watch other teams in their third games but I have. The 2017 Bills look like a sandlot team compared to even the San Francisco 49ers. That's how bad they are. Of course, the Bills have looked that bad before, but they've still managed to win 5 or 6 or 7 games. My guess is that they'll win 4 or 5 games because the defense is decent, but even if they win 7 by some miracle, they'll still take a QB in the first round so that they'll have some more hope to sell to fans. You can believe the Bills FO has changed, but I'll believe it only when I see it, and from where I sit, it looks like the playoff drought will continue indefinitely.

I seriously doubt that your feelings about winning and losing reflect the attitude of the Bills management. If they cared as much about winning as you obviously do (from this and other posts), this team would have more to show for the last 17 years than two winning seasons ... and 9-7 winning seasons at that.

No, we're seeing the result of the fundamental incompetence of the Bills organization, despite the change in ownership. The organization is run like some kind of 19th century political machine under the spoils system where the current regime brings in all its cronies and favorites. When the current "leaders" get booted out, the new regime leaders turns out the old and brings in its own cronies and favorites. Rinse, repeat. The Bills have been doing this for 17 years at least. They don't really care about building a winning team; they care about employing their pals, and as long as fans keep buying their songs and dances, they'll keep shoveling the manure ... all the way to the bank.

Of course, the Bills couldn't possibly hire a coaching staff that might just happen to want run a defense similar to the previous regime's successful one. It's not rocket science that if Marrone/Schwartz had success with a 4-3 scheme, then many, if not most, of the defensive veterans on the team are probably best suited to playing the 4-3.

The Bills are not a Crappy QB Rescue and Rehabilitation Facility!!! Why would anyone with a brain give up a third round pick for a QB who went in the fifth round in the 2016 draft that his current team wants to move after 1 season and 2 TCs? It's not like Hundley played well in a bunch of games last season and showed real promise. He completed 3 passes in 10 attempts including one to the opposition. More importantly, the Bills have a perfectly fine fifth round rookie QB who seems likely to make, at worst, a respectable backup. Peterman has looked as good as any of the other rookie QBs in his draft class, including the first rounders, that I've seen play this preseason, and he's even looked better than at least one of last year's first round QBs that I've seen.

What forest is it that they don't supposedly see and you do? Except that they either let their best young talent walk in FA or traded it talent away. How, pray tell, does that make the Bills better in the "future" and when is that future? The next time there's a total solar eclipse in Buffalo? Whatever gave you the idea that the Bills were attempting to challenge for the post season over the last 17 years? All they've been doing is for 17 years is maximizing profit by conning fans with false hope that the team was actually improving when it's just spinning its wheels. They've done this by sending their best young talent to other teams either through FA or trades and using JAG FAs and draft picks to replace players they didn't want to lay while honing their litany of excuses so well and usinng them so often that true believer fans parrot them without even thinking: "he wouldn't have signed here anyways", "he didn't want to be here", "we can't afford him under the cap", "Scrub 1 and Scrub 2 are just as good as Pro Bowler 1 because they fit our system better". When the fans threaten to become jaded and sit home, the Bills FO goes out and brings in a "star" to excite them into filling the seats: a first round QB (Losman and Manuel), a big name FA signee (Terrell Owens and Mario Williams) or an over-hyped HC (Rex Ryan). There's no real difference between what the Bills did in the 2003 off-season or the 2009 off-season or the 2017 off-season. The only plan the Bills FO has is to put as many butts in the seats while keeping salaries as low as possible. 2018 will be a repeat of 2004 and 2013: the Bills will take a first round QB whether there's anybody any good available or not.

Better yet, what if you tank for a QB and pick the wrong one??? Tim Couch in '99 over Donovan McNabb? Alex Smith in 2005 over Aaron Rodgers? Of course, there's always the possibility that there's no QB worth the #1 pick ... Russell in 2007 and Bradford in 2010 both come to mind. In 2008, the #3 pick got the Falcons Matt Ryan. In 2014, the #3 pick got the Jags Blake Bortles. Whether the Bills are deliberately tanking for a high draft spot or they're cynically cutting salary so that they can make more $$$ or they're simply incompetent, my guess is that they'll easily break 20 years of no playoffs even if the unnamed QB they'll undoubtedly draft in the first round in 2018 is the Messiah.

I'll discount any and all trade rumors about Shady only if he's still in a Bills uni the day after the trade deadline.

This is one of the dumber threads among dumb threads ... nothing is more productive than speculating about how to manage an unnamed rookie QB when nobody has any idea of who that rookie QB might be ... or even if there is to be one.

Why would any sane person want to add another team's major bust to the Bills? Isn't having their own busts good enough for you that you want to add another one? If there was an All Bust Team, my guess is that Bortles might be the starter with Johnny Manziel his backup.

Vlad Ducasse has NEVER, EVER been good, not even when he was much younger and screwing up for the Jests. Miller, at least, is younger so there's a slight chance he might get better. Well said, sir. The names and faces change but the basic brilliance of OBD's FO and coaches remains the same.

We had a possible Larry Fitz and we traded him away. That's the biggest reason for the drought ... the Bills FO disinterest in keeping the good/great players it drafts and develops. The list of ex-Bills who went on to Pro Bowlers, All Pros, and key players on perennial playoff/ or Super Bowl teams is so long it makes you sick to read it. It seems every year, one ex-Bill or another makes a name for himself in the post season. Watch Stephon Gilmore join Chris Hogan in helping the Patriots run wild in the AFC again this year.

I worked as a computer programmer for 30 years, and the field is filled with brilliant people, some of whom seem to relate to machines much more easily than they do people. Even programmers who aren't tongue-tied and limited to one-word answers when confronted with talking to a group of people often prefer to not address groups. The ability to speak well in front of a camera or a group of strangers has nothing to do with intelligence. A lot of it has to do with your personality. Some people are naturally shy and reserved while others have the proverbial "gift of gab".

And the Texans were so desperate to get rid of his salary that they gave the Browns a second rounder and a player to take him off their hands!!!

I watched that game, too, and what struck me is how the offense seemed to simply play better when Kizer came in the game. They were essentially the same players (first team) as played with Osweiler, but they actually made some plays. Kizer's just a baby who makes mistakes, but he could be something special if he progresses which would be ironic after the Browns wasted so many first round picks on "franchise QBs" who busted in the last 20 years ... Tim Couch, Brady Quinn, Brandon Weeden, Johnny Manziel.

According to the latest news report, the seven-year-old had a broken arm and ankle. He was also found walking in the gorge, which suggests he did fall since it seems unlikely he could have gotten into the gorge otherwise. If he didn't fall with his parents and brothers, he may have tried to get down to them and got hurt in the descent.

The Bills have been lucky recently because a few things have fallen their way that have cushioned fan disappointment to continuously fielding a crappy team, most notably the change in ownership and the hiring of Rex Ryan, both of which boosted ticket sales. Now, the Bills are peddling the idea that they've turned over a new leaf. Again, that's going to boost ticket sales -- and don't kid yourself that a team like the Bills isn't attuned to paid attendance. Making a profit is nice, but making a larger profit is even better. IMO, there's not much "new" about the Bills current leaf at all. It bears a depressing resemblance to the leaves under Williams, Mularkey, Jauron, Gailey, and Marrone. In other words, the team seems to be operating the same it's been operating since Wade Phillips, John Butler, and AJ Smith went west. The names of the GMs, coaches, and players have changed but the fundamentals of "the Bills way" for the last 16 years remain the same. For neophytes, the basic tenets of "the Bills way" include ... Draft defense over offense in the first two rounds. When drafting offense in the first round, pick DBs, WRs, and RBs 'cause they're cheaper. Do not pay premium $$ to keep even All Pro DBs, WRs, RBs because new ones can always be had in the draft. Do not tolerate any player calling "Foul!" at something that OBD has done. Character counts more than talent and production. Pay 1 or 2 fan favorites to keep the fans happy ... and counteract the idea that the Bills don't re-sign their own stars. Periodically bring in a big name for big $$$ to excite fans when they threaten to become jaded by continuous losing seasons. Alternatively, draft a QB in the first round even if there's no real QB talent available in the draft when you decide to do this. Hire HCs with modest credentials because they're a whole lot cheaper than hiring a HC with lots of winning seasons on his resume. Maximize the "wait 'til next year" mentality by winning at least 7 games, so that the fans remain hopeful. If the fans become restless, fire the coaching staff and be sure the next guy has an entirely different philosophy on offense and defense so that you can shed good veterans through FA or trades in the name of "he doesn't fit the system". When in doubt,cry poverty ... and blame the salary cap.

I didn't miss the mark at all. The OP posted his interpretation of the Bills' off season actions on a message board. My opinion is that his interpretation is based on fantasy. I have just as much right to my opinion as the OP does to his, and posters to a message board have to expect that others may very well disagree with what they write. I responded to one poster who started a thread based on ideas that I strongly disagreed with, yet you decided that I respond to any and all posters who have different views than I do in that same way. Maybe you should examine why you did that.

Oh, woe is me!!! All the Bills need is a franchise QB and their troubles will be over! Suck for ????, right dude? Don't worry, in case you haven't followed the dismantling of the Bills offensive team over the off-season, the choice between winning games and losing them to get a higher pick is likely to be immaterial. The Bills will suck ... and embarrassingly and boringly so. FYI, one of the greatest, if not the greatest, QB in NFL history was drafted in the sixth round. One of the very best young QBs in the NFL today was drafted in the third round. Meanwhile, the # 3 pick in the 2014 draft, QB Blake Bortles, is going down in flames in Jacksonville, and the Bills last would-be first round "franchise QB" is now a backup. Dream on.

I guess I was maybe five or six when I figured out Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy weren't real. Apparently, some Bills fans haven't stopped believing in them even though they're well into adulthood.

IMO, the Bills aren't deliberately tanking for the #1 pick. They're looking to shed as many high priced players as they dare while giving fans the impression that they are trying to build a winning team because they want to maximize profits. The Bills are profitable, but they're much more profitable when they shrink their player/coaching payrolls while still putting butts in the seats. This has been exactly what the Bills have done since Russ Brandon took over the running of the team in 2006, and he's still in charge of the team. McDermott is exactly the kind of modest credentialed HC that he Bills picked before the Pegulas went gaga over Ryan. Beane seems much like a figurehead like Levy was, which means decisions get made higher up the food chain for reasons that have nothing to do with winning football games and everything to do with cutting payroll. McDermott is just the sap who gets to try to figure out how to salvage something from the crap he has left to work with. I'm not normally a paranoid type individual who sees conspiracies under every rock but with the Bills, I'm suspicious of every move they make because they've made so many that are so inexplicable for a team that is supposedly trying to build a winning team. Remember that Russ Brandon was the genius who dismantled the Florida Marlins the year after they won the 1997 World Series. That team went from the 7th highest opening day salary in 1997 to 20th in 1998. The Marlins won 92 games in 1997 in addition to the WS. In 1998, the Marlins won 54 games and finished 52 games behind, the worst record in history for a defending World Series champion. That was Brandon's claim to fame before he came to the Bills a few years later ... something he no longer includes in his on-line biographies/resumes. I think that it's highly unlikely that the Bills trade Shady but I put nothing past the suits at OBD. Just my opinion.