Shaw66

I would think so, too, but the Bills value players of a different style. Bates is a classic wrestler - lean, tough athlete. McD likes those guys. So, it will be interesting to watch.

Tarons about as good a run stopper as a.cornwr can be, but I don't disagree. I'm guessing we will see more fluid substituting, 4-2 and 4-3 situational. Williams and Klein sharing time. We will see.

I agree. No substitute for playing, but the closest thing to starting is studying the backup spot for 3 or 4 years in the same offense, and starting some at guard. Whether he has the talent is the question.

Edmunds days of big improvement are behind him. He hasn't learned to hit, and I don't expect he will. The advantage the Bills have at linebacker is that a rookie there now is surrounded by good vets on all sides. Much easier to get production out of a rookie in that situation. I still have my doubts, but it isn't crazy.

But that's not true, at all. He could be a HOF tight end, but the team will suffer if there's no help in the ba k end of the draft. So.e of those guys have to become starters in a few years or the team will be weaker in those years. That's why you're right when you say it looks like Beane mailed it in in the later rounds. I don't think he did, but I agree its hard to see the logic in what he did.

You know, I think we, including me, have to adjust our understanding of what's going on at linebacker. If you look back at the history, it's just so clear that McBeane actually believe that the linebackers they want are the slightly over-sized safeties. Milano's draft profile really doesn't look all that different from Dorian Williams or Bernard. And despite what we all seem to think what the need is, the Bills simply do not sign free agent linebackers who are in the traditional mode. I think the reality is that they want over-sized safeties, and we need to get used to it.

Sorry, old man, McDermott doesn't want no tubs of goo. All those guys you name, they were great, but they didn't play the style that McDermott wants to play. As I understand it, McDermott's 1-technique guys have to be big and and hold their ground, but they need to be mobile athletes, too. Really mobile, with good lateral quickness and good pass rush potential. The tubs of goo aren't like that. Don't misunderstand me. I can't see why you wouldn't want a Vince Wilfork or Pat Williams in the center of your line - those guys seem to me to be game wreckers. But that isn't what McDermott seems to want. Maybe Torrence is an indication that McDermott's views are changing, that mobility and athleticism is great, but sometimes you just need athletic mass. For now, it certainly seems that Daquon Jones is as much goo as you get.

I've wondered about this. Is Bates actually the long-term answer at center? I doubt it. If he were, he would have taken Morse's job by now. But maybe I'm wrong. Actually, maybe this season, with solutions at guard, Bates does take Morse's job. Maybe that's been the plan: get the guards you really want so you don't need to use Bates out of position. I don't know. I expected the Bills take a center this year. We'll see where it goes.

Well, I hear what you're saying, but I think it misses the point, which is that the Bills are a good team, and it's difficult for anyone other than the top picks to actually make the team. When you're mediocre, like the Bills were several years ago, it's much more likely that you're going to find a Milano in the draft, because (1) you're drafting higher in each round, and (2) you have needs. So, a Milano then gets on the field right away and gets to grow. A fifth rounder now has a much higher hurdle to get over to get on the field. If you can't see the field, you're development is limited. Milano got to play, and Edmunds got to play. One developed, one didn't. So, there's that. Also, because you're playing for championships, you're much more likely to fill some holes in free agency with guys who are starters or near starters. You get a Von Miller. You get a Taylor Rapp, who makes it much harder for a rookie safety to make the squad or for a Hamlin to keep his spot on the team. Being a good team changes the GM's view of the draft. Maybe it shouldn't; I wrote something yesterday about how Beane used to say that he was building for the long term, but now it's clear his focus is much more short term. But I also think what you're missing is the developmental nature of the NFL. Once you get to the fourth round, certainly the fifth round, you're drafting guys who can't make any except the worst rosters in the NFL. (There are exceptions, of course, but the better your team, the less likely that your draftees will be exceptions.) Those guys may have a future in the NFL, but it's only after they've spent a year or two on practice squads, continuing grow their bodies and developing their skills. Offensive linemen, particularly, come to the NFL unprepared to play the NFL game, and they have to learn and develop before they make it. So, beyond the third and fourth rounds, you're drafting projects. All you're looking for are guys with the potential to be good, and you're hoping to get a good yield out of those guys after a year or two of growth. It's especially true in a weak draft year, which apparently this was. So, yeah, I wasn't completely happy with Beane's focus in this draft, but I'm not sure it's fair. Beane does everything for a reason.

No, not at all; don't trash them. I was just recognizing the reality of the situation. It's a tv show, it's entertainment. They aren't going to diss anyone on the show, and I don't have a problem with that. I'm just saying you shouldn't believe the hype. Just recognize that they're promoting these players and the NFL.

Anybody's guess. I'm sure McDermott understands what he wants to do and what he thinks will work. Whether he's right is also anybody's guess. I'm intrigued by the possibility that sometimes Milano will be the mike with Williams paired with him. Maybe situationally they will go 4-3 with Klein in the middle with Milano and Williams. And we've had a tendency to ignore Bernard, because he was such a non-factor last season, but I doubt that McBeane missed so badly on him that he won't be useful. He may be see situational time at MLB, too. McDermott knows where he's going with this, and all we can do is wait to see if he's a genius or a fool.

You're right, but we shouldn't expect anything different. The networks all live off the NFL, so they aren't going to bash the NFL. It's all positive fluff. More to the point, the whole draft show seemed like an ad for the upcoming season. After every pick, it sounded like some team just became a Super Bowl contender. The truth is some of these guys will be great, most will be average and some will bust. And the analysts don't know which is which. So, they report on them like they're all great, with the objective of getting the fans feeling good about their team and anxious for the season to start.

Great stuff, Gunner! Thanks! You're point about positional value got me thinking about this and prior drafts. Looking at positional values doesn't make Beane's first and second round drafts look too good. The point about positional value is most clear when you look at punters. You just don't take punters in the first round, because the best punter in the world is not going to make that much difference in terms of wins and losses over a guy you can pick up in free agency. The high positional values are QB, wideout, DB, DL, OT, occasionally a center. You generally don't take TEs or guards in the first round. It's easy to see why. You want guys who are keepers, and those are the positions you take in the first round. If you get a good OT in the first round, five years later you pay him and keep him. Same with a QB. But if you get a really good TE, five years later you often lose him, because he just isn't that important to your offense. Now, if Kincaid becomes Kelce, sure, you keep him, but most other TEs just aren't worth spending the money on. Look at Beane's record at getting keepers. Not so good. Allen, for sure, but Edmunds, Oliver, Rousseau, Basham, a bunch of guys who probably won't be kept. Now Kincaid, another guy who probably won't be kept, although obviously it's too early to tell. The point is that it's beginning to look like Beane is drafting more for the short-term than to find long-term keepers. When he's drafted for positional value, he hasn't done so well, and this year he's gone away from positional value altogether, getting a TE and a guard, the two positions least likely to be drafted in the first two rounds but two positions that can help the Bills in the short term. A different way to look at what's happened is that Beane and McDermott are making some serious bets on guys who leave us scratching our heads. Is Brown really the guy they're going with at right tackle? Is Dawkins really the long-term answer on the left? What's the future of the center position? Are all the MLB candidates misfits? I find the Bills' focus on traditionally less valuable positions to be odd.

I haven't heard Beane. I agree with you. If special teams is his ceiling, I don't get the pick.

Sorry, but I've never really been much of an Xs and Os guy. I don't know very much at all about linebacker strategy and techniques. You very well could be right, but I just don't know. I certainly could see Milano being the signal caller. I just don't know if any on the roster can hold up at the other spot. It just seems to me that these guys are very thoughtful about the kind of player they want, and it isn't an accident that they are collecting under-sized (or in the case of Spencer Brown, oddly-sized) athletes. I have thought for a while that McDermott wants the best, most versatile athletes. And smaller guys are generally more versatile. I think it's all part of the wrestler mentality. I'm not familiar enough with the defenses that other teams play, but quick but under-sized seems unconventional to me.

You know, in an odd way, maybe he was the bpa. It just seems to me that McDermott thinks the way to play is to be quick, fast, athletic, and versatile. And I think Beane agrees. The Kincaid pick was the same, in a sense. Not a typical, more physical tight end, but a guy who features speed and skill in a complicated position. And Bernard last year. That's three versatile, quick (and small), talented guys. Well, we're going to find out, because someone will actually have to play in the middle.

I just want to say thank you to Gunner for discussion and analysis of the Bills like this. His discussion of Day 1 is as good as you'll find anywhere. You don't have to agree with him on every pick, any pick for that matter, but the overall quality of his knowledge and his explanations of why he likes one choice or another is excellent. He talks about where his mocks were right and where they were wrong. Just great stuff, from top to bottom. Thanks.

Dorsey was a rookie last season. People get better at their jobs. No reason to have a knee-jerk response based on the assumption that Dorsey won't be better.

This may be the longest thread that I never posted in. Or did I?

Thanks, Gunner. Excellent stuff. I think you responded to me a few weeks ago about how many can't-miss players there are. My sense is that usually there are five or six can't miss guys, and three or four more who are very close. When the Bills were picking at 10 or 12, I was always disappointed to be outside of range for the can't-miss guys, but I knew that the Bills still would be getting a quality guy. This year, it seems that it would be really disappointing to be at 10 or 12. It's hard to find good value. In an odd way, it's a good year to be drafting at the end of the first round.

Buffalo is a small market. Small market players don't get promoted in the media unless they win Super Bowls and MVPs like Favre and Rodgers. It's a simple truth.

I don't know, so I didn't vote. I do expect, however, that the Bills will not pick at 27. Beane will trade that pick, up or down.

Forget whether he's done or not. Forget how good he was or might still be. Just ask yourself how many other Bills tweet like this. Answer: None. Beasley doesn't fit in. He has a tendency to become an irritant way beyond his value. It just isn't the Bills way.

PM Tuco. For you, I'm sure it's free.

Good read! Its a lot of fun, fast paced. Nice, job, Tuco.