Shaw66

It would be an amazing thing if the whole league, including the Bills, have just plain missed on Shorter. I mean, if he actually realized the potential we can imagine, he would be one of the big misses of all time, like Larry Fitzgerald falling to the fifth round. That's all pretty unlikely. But what the Bills have going for them is that they figured out, and several other teams didn't, that the path from uncertain college performance to stud was short and clear for Josh Allen. Maybe McDermott and Dorsey will unlock the door to the high ceiling.

Very simple, straight forward observation. I think it's right on. Also, a good move by Beane. Have a very solid guy for 2023, and then thank him and say goodbye or write a really big check, which he's shown he's worth. Exactly what they did with Edmunds. It's a quintessential "show me" year for Oliver. And the comp pick thought is right. If Rousseau and Jones each have good years, and if Miller comes back as the real Miller eventually, Oliver may have a monster year, benefitting from all the attention going other ways. He might end up being way over-valued in free agency.

Well, of course, we will know the answer to that only as the season plays out, but they couldn't have done much more to show their determination beyond what they've done already. Clear upgrades at guard, and more depth as a result, and the addition of two guys who have been successful power running backs. Harris and Murray aren't tweeners like Motor. They are full-fledged modern power running backs, guys with power to push the pile AND enough speed and mobility to take advantage of seems. It's possible that by December they will be after-thoughts in the lineup, but I doubt it. I think the evidence says that Dorsey and McDermott want a running game that can punish you, a running game that forces you to respect the run, game in and game out. If they can dominate with run at times, play action suddenly becomes a real weapon, too. Draw the defense into the box and let your spiffy new tight end get behind the linebackers.

I'm happy for you.

Give Beane a raise. Adding a starter-level DT? How great is that? Keep adding talent all around the defense and I could play MLB.

This is great. Thanks. One of the less obvious GM skills is managing the PS and getting some promising developmental rookies to stay instead of jumping to the first opportunity to be on a roster. These UDFAs have some potential, and keeping them for a year gives the Bills a chance to see if they have a shot at the 53 in 2024.

Brainiac - Two things. One, I agree with you completely. The Bills got better in a lot of places where getting better is important. I like the receiving corps. I like the running back room. I like the upgrades at guard. Like the addition of Rapp to back up the safeties, something that was a real weakness last season. Two, whether they've bridged the playoff gap is a different question. That's more about coaching, having the team prepared as they head into the playoffs, and having the offensive and defensive creativity to win. That's up to McDermott and Dorsey. Unless they get hit badly with injuries, they have a roster that can win it all.

By the way, Murray is 15+ years out of Syracuse, but he still has ties there. He raising money to build a community center in his small town. I sent a donation. He's a serious guy, and he's committed to doing good things.

I spent the morning listening to press conferences and interviews, post-draft. I think when you put the draft and free agency together, the Bills hit a home run. McGovern, Edwards and Torrence, in some combination, probably are taking over guard duties. Bates fits perfectly as the interior backup. And that's not ignoring others, like Broeker, who has a great grid-it-out attitude and may stick on the PS for a year before becoming more of a factor. Kincaid has the potential to be a seriously good addition to the offense. Shorter has amazing upside, and a great attitude. Latavius Murray will solidify the running back room, mentor Cook, and probably get some serious touches, too. Don't sleep on Dorian Williams, because he clearly has some special things about him too. Beane's trade up for Kincaid and recovery to get some picks was well-thought out. Where do I worry? Offensive tackle. LInebacker? Not so much. I'm trusting McDermott. The fact that they didn't chase a more traditional mlb tells me that McDermott is comfortable where they are. The Bills easily could have taken a linebacker in the second round; they had free agent guards, but McD and Beane clearly decided that they wanted a real keeper there, and that they didn't really need a true mlb. Instead, they waited for Williams to fall. I think it all was masterful.

Just came to this thread and haven't read much of it. Having watched the Murray press conference, it's now clear that Murray is, as someone said, the veteran presence in the running back room. He may be there just to mentor Cook. He's known Cook a long time, because he played with Dalvin and followed James's career in college with Dalvin. Listen to the presser, and you can hear how serious he is about football. He isn't retired for only one reason: He wants a ring. That's it. He's in Buffalo to do whatever he can to win the ring. I think he wouldn't care if he didn't get one carry. I think he'll get plenty, because he is a solid NFL back, but we'll see. The Bills told him that he had to wait until after the draft, because if the Bills drafted a running back he was out. He's been around the league long enough to understand that, and he was willing to wait to see what happened in the draft. It's interesting that Beane called his agent during the draft to ask if Murray would sign with Buffalo if the Bills wanted him. Beane wanted to know he didn't need to draft a running back. Agent said yes, Murray will sign, so Beane did day three of the draft knowing the running backs were off his list. All interesting stuff. I think Beane has had a great off season.

First, I think Rich Eisen is head and shoulders above pretty much everyone in that business. Those interviews are great. Even ended with a sincere "give my best to the Pegulas." Great. Beane is excellent in these. Very interesting listening to him talk about Josh and what they're doing to give him tools and stop depending on his running. Great intereview.

Interesting. His other frustration? A power run game. So, in addition to a straight-ahead run-blocking stud guard, he went after two veteran power running backs.

Well, I can't define baller, but I get the idea. As Mat68 others were saying, it's about mismatches. If Kincaid is as predicted, he alone is a mismatch. He can be a tight end in two-TE sets, he can flex out, be in the slot. It's not just lining up there - he can make the plays that come out of those sets. Since he's a mismatch, he forces the opponent into particular, predictable defenses. That means the Bills can know, pre-snap what the defense will be and, more importantly, where to attack. Big advantage, even though most of time, where to attack will not be Kincaid. Cook gives the Bills some of that. And I wouldn't be surprised to see Diggs in the slot from time to time. By loading the field with guys who can hurt you in multiple ways, you can be powerful.

I agree about this. I was surprised to see him running last season. What I saw was better than Motor. I was happy to get Harris, because he can be an effective power back, too, but Murray can be a problem for defenses.

That's what I've assumed. They will have those three plus Hines on the roster, maybe dress three - Cook, Hines, and one of the power guys. Or Cook and the two power backs, with Shakir returning punts.

That's interesting and makes sense to me. Thanks. Actually, it's better than that, if Cook's on the field with Kincaid. Now you're saying to the defense, "We may be two TE with a good running back, or we may have Kincaid in the slot or we may be five wide. Which personnel do you want on the field, and which defense do you want to play?" And by the way, that's the way Kincaid's presence, if he can be what we think, can be more valuable than just his numbers. That shows why he doesn't have to be Kelce to be great for the Bills. I really wasn't talking about whether Knox would be 1 or 2 positionally. I was talking about productivity in the offense, which is where I think Kincaid could surpass Knox. Man, for the first time I'm getting a sense of how dangerous this offense could be. Cook and Murray or Harris, with Hines to change the pace. A veritable fleet of receivers, with Diggs and Davis and the slot guys and who knows, maybe a rookie surprise, Knox and Kincaid. Josh Allen at the helm, behind a seriously beefed up offensive line. Tackles have to get the job done, and if all that comes together, that's massive firepower.

I'm slow. Don't the Bills carry four running backs in the 53? Harris, Murray, Cook, Hines. Or is Gilliam one of the four? I agree with others that Taiwan Jones, nominally a running back, is likely done, and his special teams role will be filled by others.

Exactly. It's sort of what I said a day or two ago, something that I often forget: the guys you take in the back half of the draft, and the undrafted rookies you sign, are development projects. Teams project a future for these guys, acquire them, then work with them for two or three years to make them contributors. Along the way, they have walk the practice squad tight rope, activating and deactivating guys, taking the risk that players will leave for lesser teams willing to put them on the 53 before the Bills are willing to do it. And, occasionally, a guy like Milano shows and demonstrates from the beginning that he needs to be on the field. And you get some guys like Shakir, who flashes some good things, and gets to play, but also shows he needs time to grow. And this is all different than it used to be for the Bills. It's not hard to remember ten years ago, when we were trying to convince ourselves that these fifth and sixth rounders were going to be the plug that would fit into one hole or another. The Bills don't go into the draft with a lot of holes anymore, so we don't have to count on those guys to step in have 800 yards in receptions as a rookies, or 90 tackles, or whatever. And that's why these days, the Bills can draft Kincaid and Torrence and we can all relax knowing it was a good draft regardless of how they did in the later rounds. That isn't completely true, of course, because, you have to get a decent yield out of those development guys, but you don't NEED them to make your upcoming season.

You know, the simple reality is that great QBs force their teams to make big decisions throughout their careers. They force teams to make really big bets, in the form of long-term contracts early in their careers, and they force the teams to make difficult decisions at the back end of their careers. Peyton, Eli, Brady, Favre, Rodgers, Wilson, Roethlisberger, Brees, all of them. The QBs force their original teams to keep them too long or to let them go. Peyton and Brady got rings with their new teams, and those fans will tell it was worth it forever. The Broncos tried again (with Wilson), and now the Jets now have tried again, and they both have experienced the downside of getting a great QB at the end of his career. The Steelers and the Saints suffered through a season or two when their HOF quarterback was anything but. It's just in the nature of great QBs as they get old. They have shown the ability to win games, at the only position where it's possible to do that consistently, and that ability is just so important in the NFL that teams are always hoping to capture one more year of it.

Yes. I think what I'm talking about is that the Bills don't need Kincaid to be practically unstoppable like Kelce. He just has to be, as I said earlier, a bigger threat than Knox has been. He has to be a threat who can make the defense pay for over-committing to the Bills' wideouts. I always liked Robert Woods for that characteristic. He has had two 1000-yard seasons, but they were with Sean McVay, the modern mad bomber. He didn't need to get 1000 - what made Woods so good was that he caught enough big passes that the defense was forced to pay attention to him all the time. Davis didn't do that last season; maybe he will this year. We hoped Knox could be that kind of guy, but he hasn't risen to that level, either.

It's fun to dream but really, no one should be getting too excited about Shorter's prospects. He isn't some unknown talent who's lived his life on a farm in Mongolia, where a roving Bills scout discovered him. There ae 31 other teams who knew how big Shorter is and how fast he can run. Everyone's evaluated him, and no one concluded that he's the next DK Metcalf or Higgins or Moulds. For me, Shorter is just like anyone else the Bills draft in later rounds: I hope he makes it, and I hope he proves to be better than anyone expected, but I'll get excited when he does.

I think another way to put it is that I think the Bills hope that Kincaid will add 1000 yards to the passing offense, but it doesn't matter who gets the 1000 yards. If he gets 600, Diggs get 200, and the other 200 is spread around among others, Diggs will get the accolades but it's the threat over the middle that can be the change that makes it happen.

That's the point, exactly.

Well said. I agree. Gray area. I'd guess that McBeane want enough to influence the defense, and if they get more, great.

I'm not sure that's what the Bills are thinking. They don't need big numbers out of him; they need him to threaten to put up big numbers, to force the defense to adjust to him. He needs to be a better, more consistent threat than Knox. That will create opportunity for the whole receiving corps. The point is to be able to attack the whole field, really threaten the whole field, with skill players everywhere in the passing game. He doesn't have to be uncoverable; he just has to be a matchup nightmare.