Shaw66

I know some don't like him, but Nantz is the best. Great guy, excellent announcer.

The story is that when Brown joined the Browns, it was very much an old-boys club. White old-boys. A lot of the players were friendly with the veteran, Ed Modzelewski, the starter at fullback the previous two seasons. They didn't like the idea that some rookie wanted to take Ed's job, a Black rookie at that. In training camp, the offensive line blocked better for Mo than for Brown. After a while, several defenders said, "hey, even if you don't block for Brown, we can't tackle him." The vets decided to put friendship aside, and Brown became the starter.

It's a fair point. But that really speaks to the bottom 80% of the league, talent-wise. The very best players weren't skipping pro football to sell insurance. They were playing football. The Warfields, Butkuses, those guys. The best players in the league were every bit as talented as the best players today (diet and training being equal). And THOSE players, the best defenders in the league, all said that Brown was otherworldly. Someone said Brown and Payton were the two best ever. Maybe so, but Payton entered the league only a half dozen years after Brown left, and the game hadn't changed that much. I saw them both. Payton was great; he wasn't Paul Brown. I'll say it again - he ran like Henry and he caught passes like McCaffrey (or Thurman, if you want to go there).

I think that's correct. Some of us are really into his story, and if others don't know it, it's hard to understand, as you say. He was a truly dominant lacrosse player. He played for a year on the Syracuse basketball team. He was on the baseball team and the track team and sometimes changed uniforms so that he could play both sports on the same day. And he was the fastest player in the NFL. He was a once-in-a-lifetime athlete.

What I just said, too. If you've only seen football from the 90s on, it's hard to understand how good he was. I mean, the guy led the league in rushing in eight of his nine seasons in the league, The one year he didn't win the rushing title, he played the entire season with a broken wrist, could only carry the ball in one hand, and couldn't use his other hand for his stiff arm, which was as deadly as Henry. He finished fourth in rushing that season.

Well, who wouldn't want Derrick Henry? Henry runs more like Brown than anyone I've seen. Brown was better, but Henry is close. The only reason Brown might not dominate is that the game is different. But even that might not be correct, because Brown was a much better receiver than Henry. The Browns didn't take Brown out of game on third down, because he was the fastest guy on the field and always a threat. Imagine getting Henry catching passes like McCaffrey. That's what Jim Brown would have been like.

I linked this to my post earlier. It's 15 minutes, and it's just amazing. Over and over and over, broken tackles, shifty moves, and outrunning defenders. How could he possibly have had that many great plays? People say, "yeah, but the competition was smaller," and "look at the blocking he had - Paul Brown was genius." Okay, assume all of that's true. Just watch how amazing these runs are. What was his greatest skill? Well, pretty much everything, but short yardage was mind boggling. Watch how many of these highlights are touchdown runs under five yards, splitting tacklers, knocking guys down, refusing to go down. What Adrian Peterson did on his best day, what Derrick Henry does on his best day, Brown did for nine years.

The Browns were on every week in Buffalo, and so where the Giants. There were no exclusive territories. When I got to junior high school and was meeting a bunch of guys for the first time, what we always wanted to know about each other is whether they were Browns fans or Giants fans. In Connecticut, when you meet someone it's good to find out if they're Yankees or Red Sox.

Actually, he retired immediately before his 10th season. He was filming The Dirty Dozen in England and missing the beginning of training camp. Browns said they would fine him for missing camp. So, he retired.

Oh, man, I could write a book about Jim Brown. Wait. People have. And I've read some of them. I was a Jim Brown fan as a kid. No Bills in the late 50s, the Browns were on TV every week. His rookie year was the first pro football season I could remember - I was ten. He was a complicated man. He was among the racial pioneers in pro sports. He was just too good to ignore, like Mays and Robinson and Aaron, and Russell. His talent was enormous. He didn't back down on the field, or in his life. He was outspoken and demanding when it came to race. He was a product of a tough environment for a child, and he spent his life working to change the world black and poor kids faced. He was his own man, even when it got him in trouble. One Night in Miami is a movie about Brown, Sam Cooke, Malcolm X, and Cassius Clay together the night Clay won the title for the first time. Apparently, the four DID spend the night together, but what they said or did isn't very well known. As I understand it, what happens in the movie is largely fiction, but simply the idea if great, that these four men, activists in their own right and at different stages in their respective careers, actually hung out together and talked about the world they faced. Watch a few highlights as a final goodbye to a great one. I just did. The guy played 9 seasons, 12 or 14 games per season, and has more 5+++ highlights than anyone you've ever seen. Power, balance, speed.

Love this! Thanks.

Excellent point. I was disappointed he didn't do more with his opportunities last season, but it's premature to write him off. But if Williams climbs over him for playing time in the defense this season, then we will know.

Andy Reid had to miss the playoffs altogether for two years before he was replaced. Tomlin hangs on in Pitt. Pete Carroll missed twice and was one and done three times in the last six years. It very much depends on the owner's philosophy.

I doubt your correct about that. He's a successful CEO you're correct, and he makes decisions. That's what CEOs do. But successful CEOs also seek advice and listen to others they respect, and I'd be surprised if Terry Pegula is any different. He may not have had anyone to turn to when he and Kim first took over the Bills, but he's been around the block a few times now, and I'm sure he's developed a network of people in the business. When he bought the team, he hired a consulting company with serious expertise and buying and selling NFL franchises. That is, he got help making decisions to buy the team. That was his introduction to the inside. His consultants certainly knew people in the league, both on the league management side and the team management side, because that's the business they are in. Pegula has been going to owners meetings for nearly a decade now, and he's worked on committees and shared his ideas with others. He undoubtedly has relationships, probably a few really good relationships, with other owners. They talk about running their teams, and about who they rely on. The owners have access, so if one of Terry's friends tells him to talk to so-and-so, Terry can pick up the phone and call him. Pegula works regularly with his senior staff, including McDermott and Beane. Over the course of their working relationships, he's learned what McDermott and Beane think about other people around the league, particularly coaches and GMs. The coaches and GMs show up at the combine, at owners meetings, and other events, and Pegula surely has met some of them and probably developed informal relationships with at least some. Think about all of the casual conversations he's had with people in his own organization who have seen a lot in the league. Forget about what you think about how well they did their jobs; just think about the experiences they've had in the league that they may have shared with Pegula. Leslie Frazier - decades in the league. Rex Ryan - decades in the league, and lifetime of experiences through his father. Marv Levy. Doug Whaley, who grew up in the Steelers organization. McDermott and his history in the Eagles organization. Kyle Williams. Von Miller. Ryan FItzpatrick. Jim Kelly. Bruce Smith. Point is, by this point in Pegula's ownership cycle, he knows, is acquainted with, and has access to a lot of people with deep knowledge about pro football. I would be amazed if he hasn't had conversations with some about how to evaluate your senior management and how to know when it's time to pull the trigger. Rather, I suspect he's spent a lot of time talking to a lot of people about how they do their jobs, including how to make decisions about coaches and GMs. He just doesn't talk about it on Twitter. I seriously doubt that Pegula is thinking, at all, about whether he needs a new head coach, but if he ever begin thinking seriously in that direction, I'm sure he knows plenty of people he can and would go to for advice.

The problem is that there aren't big sample sizes, so it's tough to get accurate comparisons to reach conclusions. Having said that, I have no doubt that teams have analyzed it as thoroughly and with as much statistical rigor as possible, and they can tell you with a fair amount of certainty what the effects are. They don't just say, "well, small sample size, so we'll ignore it." The coaches certainly feel the difference in days to prepare, and the players do, too, and I'm sure the analytics people work hard to verify their perceptions. But, as you say, that doesn't mean the league will do it differently. They want good games in prime time, and that means the games that they expect, based on what's known today, are the right games to promote as good games on prime time. And so, we get the Jets in prime time, because the league can get better tv audiences with a New York team in prime time, and the Jets have jumped ahead of the Giants by signing Rodgers.

These disparities are real and affect performance. Whether it makes sense to try to make sense of it is a different question. I think it's actually a question that is of more interest to the coaches than to the fans. I'm sure most, probably all, teams include in their analytics a lot of information about how they've played after short rest and long rest, and a lot of detail about how they prepared on 10-, 9-, 8-, 7- 6-, 5-, 4-, and 3-days rest. They have the data so they can schedule practice and travel to be as well prepared as possible. The preparation plan is different depending on how much time you have between games, whether you have to build travel time in, and how much. The real test, however, is not about how loud you should whine to the league about getting screwed by the schedule (which you definitely must do, just like talking to the officials during the game); instead, the real test is how well you can prepare 50+ players to win whatever game you have coming, regardless of how much rest you have. How do you get these players to outplay the opponents, regardless of what they're bringing to the field (including an extra couple of days of rest). That's the test. The football schedule is a series of weekly battles between opposing armies. In a real battle, none of the generals ever says, "Hey, hold on. Let's start tomorrow, not today, because we just had to run over to Detroit to fight those guys, and we could use another day of rest." Not in real battles, and not in the NFL, either. No, gimmes. No do-overs. The only question is, "Did you win?" Is the schedule fair? I guess not. As others have said, it's a business, and the combatants have to recognize that at some point, they go into battle with a disadvantage. That's the way it is. So, "Did you win?"

Best thread title of the year.

This correct. Just as the Bills did against mobil QBs, teams had the edge rushers contain and get pressure up the middle. Worked against Allen, especially with the defense in a zone. And that, my friends, is why our man O'Cyrus has joined the effort. The Bills intend to stop the pressure up the middle, and they intend to have too many receiving weapons to cover with a zone.

I generally think of the round three guys as the high floor, low ceiling guys. I expect to find useful players there, but they're just not athletic enough to be likely to grow into real stars at their position. I think of round two guys as low floor, high ceiling. They are the guys who have the athletic ability to be first rounders but have some issue that raises questions about their ability ever to realize the ceiling. Now, that's a gross generalization, to be sure, and high second round guys are more likely to have a high ceiling than low second round guys. And even if my generalization is correct, it doesn't apply in every individual case In Torrence's case, however, I think it does apply. He shows some excellent individual ability. Offensive linemen are notoriously underprepared for NFL, and it isn't easy to predict how much they will grow in terms of their understanding of the game. He also has suggested that mastering his weight has been an area of growth for him, and it may be that continued strength and conditioning training may help develop as a player, too. For all those reason, I'm not prepared yet to say what his ceiling is. I think he could be anywhere from journeyman to real star.

I agree with you. His game is solid, and I will be surprised if he isn't a long term starter in the league. I disagree about potential star. I think that second round picks are by definition potential stars. They have special talent. Most don't become stars, but they have the potential. I think Torrrence is in that category. Probably not a star, but potential? Yes.

I agree the team has better pieces. I think the question is whether Dorsey is the man to put the puzzle together.

Teams also aren't blizing because of the lack of a running game. Allowing their safeties to stay out of the box facilitates playing zone pass defense. A safety in the box forces more man to man, which is easier to attack. Well, whether the Bills actually did it remains to be seen, but I agree that they've attempted to adjust.

And yet the odds on the Bills to win the Super Bowl are better than every AFC team except the Chiefs.

One of the NFL's major efforts (to increase revenue) is to get more women watching. It's been going on for years. I'll take your word for it on the eye candy part. I've spent a lifetime looking at a completely different flavor.

Seems to me that to be a preseason top-5 team, you have to have a preseason top-5 quarterback (pretty tough to be top-5 with a mediocre QB). Tua, of course, is a stretch in that category (I don't care who his receivers are), so I'd have a serious argument with the guy about the Dolphins being on his list. But the other four - hey, those are excellent quarterbacks (I'd never try to build a team around Jackson, but he's a former MVP, and that's nothing to sneeze at). So, okay, that's his list. But if he wants pick any of Miami, the Jets, or the Ravens to win the Super Bowl over the Bills, I'll take each of those bets. The odds makers certainly don't like those teams better than the Bills. I really, really don't get how people can look at Tua and think he's a big-time QB.