Shaw66

I agree, all of Chapter 2, and 4 or 5 seasons may be right. If this chapter doesn't have a happy ending, then they may be unemployed. Wealthy, but unemployed.

I think this thought is hard to deny. The drafts haven't salted the roster with really solid talent. Instead, it seems the Bills have a lot of players whose potential hasn't been realized. A lot of guys where the idea of them made sense, but the reality of what they've done doesn't. Like Rousseau. He was drafted because he had the potential to be special, but he hasn't been that. He wasn't drafted to be routinely solid, but he hasn't been that, either. Spencer Brown is another. Later rounds, too. Just not a lot of guys who are working their way into the lineup and just doing a workmanlike job.

None of us knows, but I'm expecting it will be Johnson. Safety is the leadership position on this team. Safeties make the rest of the defense effective. McDermott will want quality, senior leadership at safety. It wasn't by accident that both Poyer and Hyde arrived in Buffalo at the very beginning for McDermott. Frankly, I think Johnson is so good that it's a luxury to have him in the slot. Unless Beane pulls some kind of rabbit out of a hat, the Bills can't afford that luxury. If you're going to have a project on the field, you'd much rather have the project at nickel, with safeties behind him to help as needed.

You missed the point. Some people here are suggesting the wheels will fall off, Bills will miss the playoffs, while they transition to chapter 2. That's what I was responding to - I said the Bills will continue to win during the transition, for the same reason they won in McD's first season. McD will find a way. I suppose one problem with McD could be that his greatest skill is to get average players to win more than average. Whether he can win more than average is the question.

I think it's a great observation. I don't have any answers about what the future looks like, but I think the point about the end of a chapter is an excellent thing to consider. It's not just Frazier and Edmunds. It's Poyer and/or Hyde and/or Oliver. And/or who knows what surprises? And I think on offense it's chapter 2, also. Chapter 1 had Brown and Beasley and Diggs. I don't know what the future is, but Diggs is a quirky enough guy that he could be gone. Hard to imagine, given his talent, but it could happen. If the Bills become a champion, they will have an offensive line that looks different. Morse won't be here forever, the guards are a work in process, for sure, and I wouldn't feel confident betting on the future of either of the tackles. Throw in the constant changes in the league, the re-emergence of the running game as an essential part of any winning offense, and I think we're looking at a chapter 2 that is mighty different from chapter 1. People here are saying it may be a rough couple of seasons, and McDermott and Beane could be gone, but I don't see it that way. This team may be transitioning to chapter 2, but I don't expect that they will sacrifice winning while the transition happens. You can argue if you want, and I could make up the arguments, but I think all you have to do is look back to McDermott's season 1. That group simply was not championship caliber, not close, but they won games and got to the playoffs. In 2023, in much the same way, the Bills may have several positions in transition, but they'll still have Allen, and I don't expect the winning will stop. McDermott will do his job, and the team will win. The transition of players is ongoing, on this team and on every team. That's a given in the NFL. The big questions for the future are (1) will Dorsey grow into the OC job? If not, McDermott and Beane will have to make a move, and they will have to get the replacement right. And (2) will they get DC job right? Maybe this season they're auditioning someone for the job, but by the end of 2023, they need to know whose the DC of the future.

Well, I guess I'm a spur-of-the-moment kind of guy. Never heard of Fans of Buffalo an hour ago, and I just now paid my deposit for the London trip. We're not sure we're going to go (you have three weeks to cancel with Fans of Buffalo after they announce the actual package, and the entire deposit is refunded). Depends on several things, but mostly the date of the game and if we want to be in the UK at the time of year. We started talking about going a few weeks ago. We don't have a lot of interest in seeing London - been there, and never found it to be our cup of tea. If we go, we'll fly into London for the game, then travel to Scotland and Ireland for a couple of weeks. Fans of Buffalo looks like a really simple way for us to plan the front end of the trip - just let them do it. At away games, we've never stayed at a hotel where a lot of Bills fans are staying, so FOB's trip offers us four nights of that. Coverage charge at multiple Bills Backers events is a nice plus. And transfer to the game. That's all stuff that makes their package attractive. Although we've never gone with FOB before, we have taken one trip - an eclipse viewing trip - organized by people who are eclipse nerds and organize trips for every eclipse. FOB seems the same. They're not a big institution, but they have a history of having done this kind of thing successfully. (Think about it: if they had planned a Bills trip that turned out to be the trip from Hell, we all would have read about it right here.) They're professional enough to have a quality website and payment page - all of that worked flawlessly for me. Anyway, I'm one step closer to actually going to the game. As for the notion that it's a waste of time to go to London for a Bills game instead of spending that money just on travel, because the Bills experience on this continent is good enough. Well, I don't see it that way. I'm finding that one thing that I like about having had a lifetime as a Bills fan is having a collection of games I've gone to. It's sort of like having a collection of coins or figurines or autographed baseball cards, but this collection is just in my head. It's a collection of memories. I don't have a "complete" collection, in the sense that I've gone to every "collectible" game (like, I was there for wide right but for none of the next three Super Bowls), but it's my collection and I like it. I view this as an opportunity to add a unique game to my collection. It may or may not be a memorable game, but it's likely to be a memorable experience.

This is a great question. First, I don't know that I have expectations. It's not for me to expect anything from him. He doesn't work for me. It's not like he and I have some relationship that entitles me to expect anything of him. It's one of the weird things about being a fan - we have hopes, and the HC can succeed in having our hopes realized, or the HC can fail at it. Having said that, when I heard McDermott in his first couple of press conferences when he came to Buffalo, he created some expectations in me. I began to expect that the team would be well organized and motivated. I expected the defense to be better than it had been, mostly because of the reputation he'd built for his defenses in Carolina. He also said things that sounded nice, but saying them didn't mean that they'd happen. He talked about a team culture that fostered continuous improvement, a team that would be on a road to excellence and sustained success. It became obvious within the first couple of years that well organized and motivated was at the core of what was happening in Buffalo. So, yes, he's met my expectations. Beyond that, he's shown me what he meant about continuous improvement, sustained success, etc. He's shown me that those are more than just nice sounding words. It actually is a culture that he's built and maintained. That's what has me continue to be optimistic and not to worry about how things turned out the past couple of seasons.

Great stuff freddie!

I think you have the cause and effect exactly backwards. They didn't go away from something that was working. They've said repeatedly that defenses adjusted to what they were doing - they went away from the short game because it wasn't working. What they failed to do was adjust with other things that would work beyond the short game.

I don't think there's any doubt the scheme will be the same. The play calling and some other tactics may change, but the scheme will be the same.

Oh, this hasn't happened without the Bills having a plan. If they didn't think that the plan for the future is something that promises to make things better, the Bills wouldn't have let Frazier take the time off. They would have made him an offer he couldn't refuse, in a monetary and workload sense. The Bills have a plan, for sure. Beyond that, it just seems like there's no way this was anything but an orchestrated way to let Frazier down gently. If it wasn't initiated by the Bills, it certainly was encouraged. As someone else suggested, and apparently Beane intimated, is that part of the plan is that McDermott will be more involved.

In fact, if he could fix the oline, I think the rest would be easy. I'm not one who thinks the Bills should keep Diggs and throw out the rest. The Bills receivers should have been a lot better last season, and I lay that at Dorsey's feet. Fix Dorsey, straighten out the oline, and he's good.

First, let me say I loved your earlier post in this thread. Didn't agree with it all, but there was a lot of interesting stuff to think about. I am dead certain that he has the knowledge to contribute. I'll get to that. What McD needs to do for Dorsey is to be sure that all scouting people have put together information about what is succeeding in the league, and what it is that the Bills can learn from that. Also stuff about what the offense did well and poorly, and what needs to be improved. All of that is being distilled into a workplan for Dorsey, a workplan that is created largely by McDermott and Dorsey themselves. And because I think that Dorsey has plenty of things he can improve on, that workplan is going to be aggressive - it's going to expect Dorsey to get better at a lot. McDermott will have to oversee Dorsey closely, for most of next season, to be sure Dorsey stays on track. As McDermott knowing anything. Well, first you only can be a good defensive coach if you understand what offenses are doing. If you're a successful defensive coach, it means you're successful at understanding what works and doesn't work on offense. So, there's that. And I think Belichick is the perfect example. Defensive coach pretty much his entire career, but he was all over the Patriots' offense, its direction. Heck, he must have understood something about offense when he drafted Gronk and Aaron Hernandez. Who does that except someone who could see how that offense would work. Finally, McDermott is a student. If there's something he needs to know, he studies. Don't think he hasn't been studying offense.

Interesting. I haven't read the thread or any reports or heard the presser, but all of this sounds about right. I already predicted Frazier will be back in 24 as some kind of special assistant. The Bills are treating him right. For all we know, McDermott knew Frazier was gone on locker cleanout day. And McDermott will, as you say, be more hands on. I can't see it being any other way. Don't know if anyone has talked about the offense here, but it's easy to see how difficult 2023 will be for McDermott when you also factor in what he has to do improve Dorsey's game. McDermott will have to be hands-on there, too.

Well, first, I think a lot of the whining that's gone on around here smacks of "blame," and I don't think blame as anything to do with it. Responsibility, yes. Blame, no. But beyond that, I've written about McDermott before. I doubt there are any harsher critics of McDermott's coaching than McDermott. He has one objective, and that's to win. And his system is that everyone, including McDermott is critiqued, and everyone including McDermott has a plan for how they are going to do things better. Part of what the organization does is examine what's working in the NFL and what isn't, part of everyone's workplan, including McDermott's plan, is to evaluate other teams and coaches and that way, and to evaluate their own team. So, yes, I'm sure McDermott is taking responsibility for where the team has been, and he's responding. If by blame you mean the things that, if done differently, the team would have a Super Bowl by now? Are you saying he should be fired because his team didn't do those things? There are a few teams every season of whom it could be said that if they'd done this or that, then they might have won a Lombardi. Winning it all is difficult, to say the least. It's a remarkable achievement by 100 or more people coming together with intense commitment to excel at something that is just short of being war. It's very hard to put together that kind of accomplishment. Someone will say, "yes, but if the DBs didn't play so soft, or if Frazier hadn't gone prevent against the Chiefs," or whatever, but really? They had a team of players and coaches that achieved a great deal of success playing a particular style of football, and there's nothing to say that they would have greater success throughout the season playing a different style. The coaches all say you have to go with what got you there. You're there because "what got you there" has been shown to be very successful. That's why you're there. So, I don't see that blame has much to do with it. Bills haven't gotten it done. Period. But the people the Bills have are committed to getting it done, and by that they mean they're committed to change. This move with Frazier is part of the change. It means McDermott is doing his job.

I haven't read this thread, so apologies to those whose thoughts I may be duplicating. My primary response to the news about Frazier is to call out all those who've been complaining for a month that the Bills aren't doing anything, as though many of us fans can see that things need to change but McDermott and Beane can't. That idea is and was nonsense. McDermott is about making the team better, year after year. He and the organization study the team and make decisions about what needs to be done. They have frank conversations with the coaches and with the players and make some decisions about the program each needs to follow. The 2023 Bills will not be the 2022 Bills, and that has been true since the moment the Bills lost to the Bengals. It would be true even if the Bills had won the Super Bowl. If I had to guess, Frazier heard the results of the study of the defense, and those results probably told him that 2022 was inadequate and things needed to change. The kinds of changes they talked about probably sounded to him (and McDermott) like things he wasn't likely to be able to do. So, the handwriting was on the wall. But McBeane didn't want to fire the guy, and the leave of absence, or whatever this is, was a much better way to treat the man at what may be the end of his career. My guess is that they left the door open for Frazier to return in 2024 in some kind of specialized role - special assistant to the head coach or something like that. I think he's done as the defensive coordinator. And, as I'm sure has been noted already, this has been in the works for weeks. It explains the Holcomb hiring, which was part of the handwriting that Frazier no doubt saw.

Yeah, I think he's a natural. Slot corner the way the Bills play is essentially the third linebacker in a 4-3. He blitzes, he covers the tight end, but he also has the ability to cover outside receivers. The position requires toughness, cover skills, tackling ability, and perhaps most importantly the ability to read and react to what's happening on the field. That's what the Bills expect of their safeties. Because safeties are the last line of defense, they are more important than slot corners. If I'm going to put Benford or some other untested guy on the field, I'd put him at slot corner before I put him at safety.

I agree. We saw Jaquon Johnson and Damar Hamlin try to play safety, and both of them had had a lot of time on the roster playing the position. They didn't make me feel very good about them as the full-time safeties. Expecting a corner back who played less than half as a season as a rookie to do it doesn't work for me. I've said all along that I think it's Taron Johnson, with one of the corners moving to be the slot corner. Taron Johnson has a lot of experience on the field, and he's shown the intelligence to read and react that's required of the Bills' safeties. He's also been durable, and he's a good hitter. I'm guessing he's the guy.

Well, I agree, and thanks for putting this together, but the first round is more important than any other round. The defense would be just as good, and the offense markedly better, if Beane had found one or two offensive linemen in the first round.

Incredible longevity. How young was he in 2002?

Every time I see and hear him, I'm reminded of what a special guy he is. Essential to have the right team around him.

I'll post my reaction to the news that Edmunds is testing free agency. First, I think that it means that Edmunds isn't worth that much to the defense. Beane always says his objective is to draft good young players, grow them, and keep them. And he shows it by signing or extending players early. If the guy could have been re-signed and Beane chose not to, it usually means that Beane is willing to let the guy go. It also means that Beane acknowledges that the guy actually will get more elsewhere. That begs a question - what does it mean that he isn't worth that much? It means that he doesn't fit as a critical piece in the way McDermott wants to play defense. That would suggest that the Bills will be modifying their approach to defense. For example, they may have decided a year ago that the defense would be evolving, and that might explain the Bernard pick. There was a day, a year or two ago, when McDermott and Beane said to one another, "there will be a time when Hyde and Poyer are gone, and a time when we probably won't want to pay Edmunds and probably won't want to pay Oliver. All of those times are going to overlap, but it means that the personnel we're playing with today are not the guys we're going to be playing within a few years." They knew this time was coming, and they're constantly planning for it. They have a plan for what they're trying to build. And this takes me back to the notion that some suggested: that McDermott isn't the right guy, because he won't change or whatever. He KNOWS he has to change, if for no other reason that he knows that his players are going to be changing, and he wants to have the best players to play in the league as it may look in a couple of years. He simply can't expect to have guys the caliber of Edmunds, Poyer, and Hyde playing in the middle of his pass defense. His defense will evolve.

No

Why do they stand all game? Because they feel it. I've sat all around the stadium, but never in the lower bowl, at least not so far as I can remember. I have club seats now. I've never had seats where people stood all the time. I stand, gladly, whenever someone in front of me stands. I will not miss a play because someone in front is up. And I feel the urge to stand all the time during the playoff games. Why? Has something to do with being with the team, emotionally. It's like I'm ready to take the field to help them. And it feels like I can make more noise standing. It's about being part of the fight, somehow. It's true, people in the club seats, many of them, have a different attitude. They act like they're entitled - entitled to be comfortable, entitled to watch the game on their terms. Sometimes some of them seem like they're at a Super Bowl party when the game is between two teams they don't care about. "Excuse me, I'm going to get a mixed drink and maybe a snack." But it's plenty noisy - not as frantic noise as I've heard in some parts of the stadium, but seriously loud. And, to be honest, at 75 years old I'm not all that interested in standing for three and a half hours. The heart is willing but the legs are weak.

I think you're correct. By imposing the restriction, at a minimum they are keeping the profit-taking on tickets stay in the local market. If they let anyone buy season tickets, then the tickets will end up in the hands of sellers from bigger cities who will take the profits instead of local people. Second, by restricting in this way, and keeping prices low, they make it possible for the people of western New York to have the experience of having a pro football team. So, at best, the restriction is a community service. The Bills could make more by selling elsewhere.