Shaw66

Fair enough. I don't know how long it will take. All I know is that watching him it was easy to see that he belongs in the league. I expect he'll play a long time, for the Bills or someone else.

Bado - One of the best things I've seen written about Rousseau. If he had top-end speed and quickness, he would have gone in the top 10. He doesn't, and people had doubts about him. But the combination of his size and strength, along with enough speed and quickness, and his style of play, is classic winning football. It's as you say - he looks like he could play at any level. Jim Leonhard was one of my favorite players. Strictly physically, the guy had no business playing in the NFL. But he combined intelligence and determination with just barely enough speed and quickness to be a factor every time he stepped on the field. Rousseau is like that, with better physical attributes. Watch his post-game interview. It's all cool and he's happy. But he isn't surprised he can play at this level. And he clearly understands that he has a lot to learn.

Good stuff, Gunner. Thanks for doing this. I'm not the astute observer you are, but I'll throw in my thoughts here. By the end of the game, I found myself asking a simple question: Who LOOKS like he can play in this league? Rousseau, for sure. Rousseau should be getting snaps from day one. He can play now, even though he certainly has a lot to learn. Spencer Brown. I didn't see many of the things that are causing people to say he's not ready, and I'm sure he's not. At tackle, consistency is essential, and he doesn't have it yet. But watching him, I had no doubt that he's a player. Quickness, determination, toughness are all there. He looked to me like a a guy who will be a serious threat to take Dawkins' job down the road, and he could compete for the right tackle job this season. He has the potential to be a dominant player. Davis Webb. Great understanding of the offense, decent arm. Composed. I can see him filing in for Allen in a well-oiled offense. He's not going to make the plays Allen makes, but he'll be serviceable. He may be a long-term solution at backup. Who looks like he CAN'T play in this league? Fromm. Maybe it's too early to tell, but there's some minimum level of physical skill that a player needs to have to play in the NFL. It looked to me like Webb is above the line, and it looked to me like Fromm clearly is below it. At Georgia, he was an extremely efficient technician, and he was physically talented enough compared to college players to make his share of big plays. He doesn't look to me to have the physical talent to play at this level. Dane Jackson, Wildgoose. They looked like they don't belong. But there's a multi-year learning curve in the NFL for everyone; Jackson should be further up the curve than he showed last night; Wildgoose may look better after a season on the PS. Other comments: Basham's bulk surprised me. I think Basham has been oversold to us, and we've oversold him to each other. He's a late second round pick, and you say you had him in the third round. That means he's a guy perhaps like Phillips, who despite the early enthusiasm about him, took three years to get to where he's now beginning to look like he can be a solid contributor. Just solid, not a star. Basham didn't look lost, and he showed he can fight. He just has to learn to play at this level. He rarely, if ever, saw offensive line talent like he sees in the NFL (even the Lions second team is great talent compared to an average college offensive line). He needs to get stronger (like almost every other rookie lineman), and he needs to learn all the little things that offensive linemen do to win. One of the great things about the McBeane process is that they only draft guys who desperately want to get better, and they've commented that Basham looks to be one of those. So, we can expect him to fight and scratch and claw and study and lift and practice, and as time goes by, I expect he'll be a solid contributor. I was interested in two things going into the game. Can the Bills run, and can the Bills stop the run? On offense, I wasn't overly excited. Yes, Singletary looks like he's returned to his 2019 style - hit the hole, then beat someone. He's good at that, and he seemed to have lost that focus last season. It was good to see him go last night. But the offensive line wasn't dominating anyone - it seems the best the Bills can hope on offense is to create some seams and have a back scramble for 5 to 15 yards. When they fall short of that, the run game stalls. Breida didn't look explosive enough to change that. It's almost as though Moss is a slightly bigger, tougher version of Singletary, and Breida is a slightly smaller, quicker version. We'll see. Williams is tough, but didn't stand out. Defense against the run was, I thought, much more encouraging. The first couple of series, when the Bills had a starter-level personnel on the field, with the backup linebackers, they were extremely active and closing on the ball carrier from all directions. It looked like a swarm of good athletes just being more aggressive and quicker than the offense. Question is whether that was one-time event, because they had something to prove, or whether the defense is going to play like that regularly. You could see it in the pass rush, too. It was frenetic. And although I didn't watch him enough to say more, Epenesa looked more like the guy I thought he could be. The Bills depth is amazing in one sense. We've had all these years of looking at other teams' cast offs to find a guy who could help the Bills, and now it's turned. You take a guy like Stevenson, who on lesser teams might actually be challenging for a starting spot. He's clearly on the bubble, at best, and if he isn't on the 53, other teams will be interested. Same problem with the rookie offensive linemen - one or both of Anderson or Doyle is likely to make the roster simply to protect them, and the hope is that they learn fast enough that later this season, when their number is called, they will be up to the task. I agree with you about the linebackers. It was amazing to see them play that well. Frankly, I think it's the process. Talented buys, some now in their second or third season learning the system. They looked like they knew where to go and how to get there in a hurry. Both lines have depth, too, and you're right, the defensive backfield looks thin. I have to believe Neal will help more than he may have shown last night. Finally, one of the things that is so special about McDermott is that he insists that his players be excellent at executing their jobs, but he also insists that collectively, as a team, they're excellent. He said it a couple of years ago - winning preseason games is important, because he wants his teams to learn how to win. And that means EVERYONE has to learn how to win, not just the starters. That means the starters are as happy winning when the scrubs do it as the practice squad is happy when the starters do it. We've seen it several times, and we saw it again last night. Both the Lions and the Bills managed the clock at the end of the half and the end of the game to give their teams opportunities in the two-minute drill. It was a test of the offense and the defense and the special teams. It's very important to McDermott that his team win in those situations, and there it was last night. Hold the Lions to a field goal, then win your way down the field until all that was left was the last word. Bass.

I was searching for another thread and found this thread. I don't recall seeing it last year. Those games were great. I was at 64 and watched 65. The game has changed so much since then, but the thrill is the same. As the old timers recall, fans in Buffalo in the late 50s were either Browns fans or Giants fans, depending on which team you watched every week - Channel 2 or Chane 4. For us Browns fans, 64 was magical - go to the stadium and watch the Bills win the title against the Chargers, then sit at home Sunday and watch the Browns beat the Colts. Two upsets. Two definitive wins. Bills would have won a Super Bowl that year.

NFLN cable

Wow. Everybody loves Fitz. Not enough Bills stuff for my liking, but great stuff anyway Excellent.

This is an interesting point. McBeane have been very clear that they are in continuous improvement mode, and by implication they've been clear that they won't mortgage the future to win now. This issue, who goes unprotected to practice squad, is where McBeane gets tested. I think it works like this: If you've got a rookie you think has a good chance of emerging as a quality player, you want to hold on to him. If he's a battle with a guy with a little more experience, the rookie is losing, do you put on the PS? I think you ask one more question. We know that the rookie isn't as good as the vet right now, and if we keep the rookie over the vet, the team will be weaker. The final question is whether if you put the rookie on the 53, and if he's going to be a relative liability in Week 1, what will he be in Week 12? Because if you think the rookie will close the experience gap in 10 weeks and will be the equal or even better player, then you go with the rookie. Other than that situation, I think "the time is now" has to control the roster decisions. All good teams have the problem of losing good young talent. It's part of success in the NFL. So, you make the right roster decision for this year's team, and you let the chips fall where they may with the guys you'd like to stash on the practice squad. It has to be that way. Are you going to tell a Jerry Hughes "this kid is really important to the future, so we're putting him on the roster instead of the veteran, who makes us better this year, sure, but who won't be here in a year or two." A veteran like Hughes would be rightly upset at that. He, and everyone else on the team, is playing to win now. One slight edge I think the Bills have is that their culture is so attractive to some players that they may be willing to take a PS spot rather than go to another team. Obviously, not everyone is going to make that choice - these guys have been focused for 8 or 10 years to make it to the NFL, not to make a practice squad. But one or two or three guys may be told, "look, you need more experience, but you look like you're going to play for us. If we get an injury, for sure you're getting called up. If you show well in practice and continue to improve, you may get called up. And we're planning on going places - you'd like to be part of it." So, yes, go with the best 53, but fudge it a bit with guys who seem to have a real future.

Outstanding review! Thanks. Sounds like a team preparing to be better than 2020.

Man, that is defensive technique as taught. Stay with the receiver, play his eyes and hands and react to the ball. Beautiful. McKenzie shouldn't be ought fought for that ball, but Cam is fighting for it the moment it arrives.

It's a little unfair to Brown, but only a little. You describe it well. But that doesn't mean he shouldn't have some level of all-round competence? The Bills may have hired him to be a mouthpiece, but it's in the Bills' interest that he be competent. The Bills want clicks, like everyone else, and they lose some eyeballs when the guy demonstrates that he doesn't know the game he's covering. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe most listeners don't care about the cap, anyway, and they don't care if Brown doesn't understand it. All they want is content, any content, about Josh or one of your favorite players. Any content will do, people will listen no matter how simple it may be. And maybe a few listeners, who understand and are looking for better content, will go find it. Maybe the Bills don't care about those few. Still, if it were my job, I would want to know how this stuff works. I'd want to now how pass protection schemes work, how the cap works, how the marketing works. I don't think I could have been there for 15 years and NOT learned those things.

I think that's a very good way to look at it. I love the idea of Edmunds, but I'm in the camp that says he has to play at a different level before he gets a big payday to stay in Buffalo. You're right about the money spent at linebacker. But it seems like what they're hoping for is Edmunds to force the Bills to write a big check, and that will mean McDermott will have to function with two expensive LBs and some journeyman the Bills get make work for a year or two. A global description of what McDermott is doing is first, focus on the pass. The pass is the way to success in the NFL, so focus on passing really well, and focus on stopping the passing game. That's the number one priority, evident both in the Bills offense and their defense. Next, on defense, how are we going to prevent being overrun by the pass? By preventing the deep ball, by limiting passing success to shorter passes, ideally behind the sticks. How are we going to do that? Well, we're going to have a bunch of smart, disciplined DBs, good athletes, and they're going to play complex coverages. Those coverages demand that we have some really good pass defending linebackers, just two, really, because we're in nickel so often. We can't afford to blitz much, because these guys are going to be specialized pass defenders. If they're not going to blitz much, that means the pressure has to come from the front four. Enter Oliver, Epenesa, Rousseau, Basham. It's also interesting how all this drives the run defense. What do the Bills have to stop the run? Well, six strong quick guys, guys who stay quick by keeping their weight down. (Actually, it's like they're wrestlers.) They're built that way to stop the pass, so how are those six going to stop the run? Well, the Bills are still figuring that out. None of which is to say Edmunds is the guy to pair with Milano to be those linebackers. Milano was kept at what seemed to be an appropriate cost. In another year, we'll find out whether the Bills will be willing to pay the "appropriate cost" to keep Edmunds.

I've gotten used to the ignorance about the Bills that was on display on the regular season NFL broadcasters. They weren't really interested in what was going on in Buffalo all those years. Their attitude was, "well, when you do something we'll pay attention to what you're doing. Until then, we're sorry, but we simply aren't going to know a lot about you." Finally, last season, the Bills said, "Hello? Fellas? Time to pay attention." The knowledge gap will narrow, mercifully. But the point about Tasker and Brown is different. They have what a lot of us would think would be a dream job - just hanging around the Bills all day, having occasional access to players, coaches, the GM. All I had to do in return is know what is going on, write some about it, talk some about it. Well, if it were me, I would think it was my obligation to know enough capology to be able to understand and talk about how the contract might affect the Bills. That is a pretty important factor as we look to the coming years, with the inevitable flipping of the roster. Seems to me you're not doing your job if you aren't learning that stuff? Imagine this. Say, Brown gets a half hour to interview Beane. They know each other, obviously, have traveled together, had casual conversations. While they're standing around waiting for some tech guy to hook something up, just chatting, and the subject of Josh's contract came up. In the course of the conversation, Brown demonstrates to Beane that he doesn't understand capology. Beane would be gracious about it and gently correct him, but don't you think that Beane's thinking, "What is it with this guy? He's been here fifteen years and he still doesn't understand this stuff?" I know it's details, but it's important details. (I'm chuckling to myself, because personally I've lost pretty much all interest in capology. I'm just a fan, and I can know and not know about whatever I like. I know the cap's important, I know there are strategies, and I live in hope that the people responsible for that stuff are taking care of it.)

Slow to report stuff. They can't say it until the Bills have said it publicly.

I have to admit that I haven't read or heard anything from the two of them in a month or more. I'm not reading and listening to every last thing any more, but if I'm looking for quality in depth stuff, they aren't the go-to source. Plus, of course, they're slow. Not to beat up on them, but it seems to me that if that were my job, I would be on top of the mechanics of the cap rules. Personally, I'm not terrifically interested in them - Beane will manage the cap as he sees fit. I care about the football, not the business of football. But if my job is to cover the team, my full time job, the business of football is an important subject. I'd like to think if I had their job, I'd make it my business to understand the ins and outs - and cap consequences - of Josh's contract.

Regardless of how they left, the point is that Belichick did what McDermott and Beane have said they are going to do - keep their key talent. By implication, they've said they'll let good players go who aren't key plays. So, we saw Lawson walk. Good player, likely contributor in the future, but not a core player. Belichick got himself a franchise quarterback and went out of his way to have a shut down corner. After that, pretty much no one's job was secure. It began way back with Lawyer Milloy. People thought Milloy was a star, but he was just a very good player in Belichick's system. That's the lens to view Edmunds through. Is he a key player? Is he at the core of what the Bills are trying to do? What Belichick taught is that there are very few of those guys. So, I won't be surprised if Edmunds is gone after his rookie deal. Edmunds has to be seen as crucial to the success of the defense. The question is who are the players that the Bills will pay anything to keep them? The answer for McBeane is, I think, the same as the answer for Belichick - not many. Pay anything to keep Allen - they just did that. Probably pay anything to keep White. I'd say that Edmunds is the only other guy possibly in that category on the defense. There's a point at which Beane would say Hyde and Poyer aren't worth a fortune. No one on the defensive line is in a position to demand big money. Only Edmunds, and that's not because his play has been outstanding from an individual performance point of view. If, and it's a big IF, the Bills will pay anything to keep him, it will because he is the only player in the league with the skill set that allows Frazier and McDermott to organize the defense the way they want. How can Edmunds be an absolute keeper? Well, I think of it strictly geographically. If you draw a line around the space that Edmunds effectively can defend in McDermott's pass defense scheme, it's probably a bigger space than any other player in the league can defend. That, in turn, means everyone else in the pass defense has less space to defend, which means the corner backs can be more effective against the wide outs. That would make Edmunds a very valuable asset, and more or less irreplaceable. There just aren't many 6'5" linebackers with his reach, his athleticism, his speed, and his attitude. If a guy like that is critical to the defense, Beane will pay him. Is Edmunds that guy? I don't know. I don't understand the defense well enough to know. What I do know is that McBeane will operate like Belichick - they will not be afraid to lose players whom the fans and the media may think are important players.

The question is whether the odds are against or with you if you want a game changer late in the first round of the draft. The answer is definitely against you. Nobody reasonably expects to find an Aaron Donald at 13.

There maybe a two dozen game changing non-QBs in the game, at all positions. There are 3 or 4 or 5 linebackers. They don't fall to 17. Sure, there are other guys who make plays, but that's different from being a game changer. If you're fast, at that position you're always going to get opportunities to make plays. Edmunds makes his share of them. Game-changers go in the first six to eight picks. After that, if you find a star, you got lucky.

If Edmunds is what you can get with a 17, why do you think the Bills will do better drafting at 30?

The problem with this is that people expected him to be game changing. Someone pointed this out to me a few weeks ago. There was and is no reason to expect greatness of him. He was drafted 17th, and that may have been a little high. The star linebackers, the guys you expect to make impact immediately, go in the top 10. When you draft a guy 17, of course you HOPE he'll blossom and prove to have been a steal at 17, but the reality is that rarely happens. The reasonable expectation for a guy drafted 17 is that he'll be a solid starter for a long time, maybe make the Pro Bowl a few times. I agree about the hype. McDermott and Beane were really excited about him they drafted him, and they made it sound like they did steal the guy. That hasn't proved to have been true, at least not yet, but treating the guy as a bust is basing your opinion on your expectations rather than the reality of a 17th pick.

This is good stuff, Thurm. I don't agree completely - I'd say after year two the national media were more negative than they should have been. Good football people, if they were watching, could see that Allen was on his way. Too many were stuck in their negative first impression. But be that as it may, the positive reaction around the league means that most everyone around the league agrees that you have to pay that kind of money to get a QB who looks to be as good as Mahomes. The only stupid thing the Bills could have done is let the season start without having a contract in place; people recognize that, and they're saying it's a good deal for the Bills because it locks up Allen.

I see all that you guys are seeing, but I am not sure that any of us is seeing what the coaches see. There was a thread a few weeks ago about a coaches' and scouts' poll, and a lot of them said Edmunds is a nightmare to plan for, because of his length and his range. The point is that the value that Edmunds brings to the team may be greater than what we see. We see a guy who is not a hitter, is close but isn't a natural cover guy, a guy who is around the ball but makes few impact plays. I suspect what the coaches see is a guy who makes the game easier for the defensive backs and the other linebackers. Whether that is worth $100 million is a different question.

I agree with this. You couldn't watch year one without seeing the potential. It was obvious. And you couldn't watch year two without knowing that he was on his way. If you watched and didn't see it, you were letting your own preconceptions get in the way. He was really good in year two. The fact is that we may be biased but we know what we are seeing. That's not a mirage we are seeing; that's a real human being doing things no on has seen before.

Inigo - Excellent! Exactly! Especially the first point. It was obvious to me after year 2 what we had. Actually, year 1, but needed year 2 to be sure.

Here's what I said on Memorial Day, 2019:

Yeah, I agree. It was just an example. My point was more about how impressed I've been that the Bills' leadership is fearless. They came in said they were going to build the team a certain way, deliberately and over time. They didn't jump at every opportunity for a quick improvement. Get good young players and develop them. There was plenty of pressure to build fast, but they stuck to their guns. Diggs was probably the only exception. They took a chance on Diggs, and they abandoned their own scheme, because they did their homework and decided it was the right time and place. It was a gutsy move. I agree kicker is a different position, but when you've traded for Diggs because you believe the team can win now, it takes guts to cut your experienced, generally dependable kicker and go with a rookie. So, yeah, I agree it's a bigger step to unload an experienced starting defensive end and go with a rookie or a committee of rookies, but these leaders are not afraid to do it. They will assess what they have and where the team is going, and they will have the courage to make the choice that to us may seem risky. Still, I agree with you that when they assess Hughes, they almost certainly will decide that his combination of skill and leadership is simply too valuable to unload. McDermott loves veteran leadership, and Hughes has emerged as a veteran leader. Some might argue the Kyle Williams was around a year too long, or some might argue the same thing about Alexander, but McDermott really wanted those guys in the locker room. I think Hughes has grown into the same position.