Shaw66

I think you're missing the point. Do you think pass receivers change their routes because the route they're supposed to run looks like it's covered? No. Pass receivers are expected to run their routes and get to where they're supposed to go. Do the coaches want them to run their routes, even if they're covered? Yes. Why? Because if nothing else, they want it on film that they send that guy deep. Do you think corner backs just drop their coverage on the wideout and go double team the tight end because they think the QB wants to throw it to the TE? No. The corner back defends the play the way the defense was called. Do you think running backs just decide not to hit the proper hole because it doesn't feel right to them? Maybe Adrian Peterson had that choice, but probably not even him. Run the play as designed, because that's where the highest probability of success is. If the hole is plugged, hit it anyway - it will force the defense to respect the fact that that's where you want to attack. The days of football players on their own just deciding to do something different from the called play are gone. Yes, within the play design, a player may have to make reads and make choices, but that's different from simply not doing what was assigned because it doesn't look right to the player. One of the reasons Randy Moss bounced around from team to team is that he would, on his own, break off his routes and run to the space he thought was open. I'm pretty sure Roberts ran out of the end zone because that was the play design. He rarely ran out of the end zone in 2019, but in 2020 he was doing it all the time. Why didn't he do it in 2019? Because he was told not to. Does anyone really think that in 2020 he just started coming out on his own? I don't. He was coming out because the coaches decided that on average, they'd do better bringing it out than taking the touchback. Why? Because they thought they had schemes that would work, and they had a kick returner who was good. And Roberts turned out to have the best kick return average in the league. When you have Josh Allen, you don't stop throwing the ball deep because sometimes it doesn't work. When you have Andre Roberts, you don't stop bringing it out because sometimes it doesn't work.

I can't say that I'm sure that you're wrong, but I'm pretty sure. In the old days, kick returners would stand back and make a judgment about whether to bring it out, a decision like you seem to be contemplating. I don't think it works that way any longer. On a well-coached team, and this is definitely a well-coached team, the return man isn't standing back there and bringing it out just because he thinks he can make something out of it. I think that the special teams coaches study the film of the opponent's kick coverage and they decide what plays they have that they think they can run successfully against that coverage. They coach the players as to how to execute the play against the coverage. They give guidelines to the return man. I think Roberts ran out of the end zone last year because he was supposed to. What happened is that the Bills players were unable to execute their blocks in the ways that the coaches thought they could. In other words, the opponent's scheme beat the Bills' scheme. But over the course of the season, the Bills' scheme beat the other guys, so much so that Roberts led the league in kick return average. The Bills were willing to take risks on bringing the ball out of the end zone because they were good at kick returns. That's why Roberts was coming out of the end zone, and that's why every once in a while it looked like a bad decision.

Davis doesn't have a history of dropping passes. He was solid in college, and he was solid as soon as he hit the Bills. For him, a drop is just something that happens. That's why it's reported differently.

This is a good discussion of Beane's philosophy. I think it's based on the fact that it's rare that you get an offensive guard who is a difference maker. If you have a good center and two good tackles, you just need solid play from the guards. The best talent at guard may be Ford, and he was drafted as though he was going to be a different maker, but at tackle. Also, it's more than throwing bodies at the problem. The coaches and GM always tell us that offensive line play is more about teamwork than any other position group on the team. In other words, it's not a skill position group. It's guys who can execute well together. When I watch replays and focus on the offensive line, I'm always surprised at how many plays are about just getting to the right place and pushing. I know there is plenty of technique to be learned and all, but by and large it's executing together, making the right handoffs, handling double team blocks properly, etc. So what you need, and what seems to drive Beane's management of line talent, is decent sized good athletes with the right work ethic. Despite how the offensive line played last season, I think McDermott's evaluation was that he had the talent he needed to develop a solid, effective offensive line. That message was clear when they signed Feliciano and Williams - status quo, improving, was good enough for them. The fact that they drafted three offensive linemen means that they would like a physical upgrade, a talent upgrade, but it's likely that if any or all of them are going to contribute significantly, it won't be for a year or two.

Maybe I'm wrong. Wouldn't be the first time ... in the past five minutes.

Sal's comment and your comments are very interesting. This is exactly what McDermott said when he arrived in Buffalo. He described exactly this benefit of having good players, a team approach, and continuity. He said, without describing it, that when you have a team that comes to camp so far ahead of the usual learning curve, it pulls the rookies up that level. That's how Davis was able to be an impact contributor so early, and it's what I hope we'll see from at least the top three picks this year. Those guys already know what's expected of them, and it's easier for them because everyone around them is already doing what's expecting. Everything is different than just a few years ago. He could be a surprise cut. If I remember his story correctly, Johnson was a project. Raw talent when he got to college, and not a polished player when he was drafted - just a lot of talent and hitting ability. So he's had some catching up to do. By this season he should be showing that he can understand and execute what the system requires of him. If he isn't showing it this summer, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Bills move on. Disappointed, because he could be a physical presence, but not surprised.

I agree. I'm old enough that I don't keep a lot of stuff in my active memory so, for example, until a few weeks ago I had forgotten about Stevie's drop in the end zone in overtime. Someone mentioned it, and the memory popped up. I've thought about that play often since then. My recollection is that Stevie was a quite reliable pass catcher. Everyone has drops, but a Stevie drop was surprising. However, drop one in the end zone in overtime, and your reputation is forever changed. Got you. The question is whether Kumerow is getting noticed because he's a new-found toy, but it doesn't seem that way to me. If Davis were lighting it up, people would be talking about whether he'll start over Sanders, or whether Sanders will take Beasley's job so Davis can get into the lineup. But it isn't Davis lighting it up. It's Kumerow, and given his past, it just seems to me like this is a real challenge to make the team, not a Cinderella story. People may be surprised if he makes the squad, but no one is saying where did this guy come from. Whatever. I get your point.

I don't Kumerow is a Cinderella story. He isn't coming out of nowhere. He's impact plays in very limited duty on teams that have had good receivers. Three TDs in 21 receptions isn't bad. And he's a guy Rodgers has commented on favorably. My sense has been that he's gotten the press because he's legitimately standing out. It's been day after day, plus he's playing the special teams.

I think there's a difference between being a regular starter on the offense, which Tasker was sometimes asked to do, and being a spot substitute, which is the role McKenzie has been in. When Tasker was in the starting lineup, he needed to be in the offense and wider receiver meetings every day to get prepared. McKenzie is probably not starting unless two of the top four receivers get hurt, maybe top five if Kumerow makes the team. So McKenzie is a little better able to drop in and out of offense meetings as he does his special teams prep. Thanks for that article. I'd encourage people to look at it before they say more about Roberts not being a loss. The Jets and the Bills were the two standout teams, by far, on combined kickoff and punt return yardage.

Right. For any receiver, it's all about being consistently good catching the ball. Everyone is going to have a drop once in a while. The problem Knox has (like some other receivers), is that once you develop the reputation, even if you've improved, everyone notices your drops. And maybe he was better in 2020 than 2019, but he wasn't good enough. He needs another big step, or he's going to be replaced.

It's always interested me that kickoff and punt returns are so different. Kickoffs are definitely "take it and go." Just catch and run as fast as you can toward where your seam is supposed to be, keep going forward as fast as you can. Changes of direction are gliding redirections. Punt returns are true broken field running - starts and stops, changes of direction. Most returners are good at one and not so good at the other. Roscoe, for example, was a devastating punt returner and never much of a kick returner. That was another thing that made Roberts valuable as a return man - he is among the best at both. McKenzie actually strikes me as a tweener, not quite the broken field runner that the best punt returners are, not quite the blazing north-south guy you want on kickoff returns. Still, McKenzie is a solid choice.

Thanks. But I thought receivers were deep, and there was some speculation that Stevenson might have fallen a bit compared to a normal receiver year. But what do I know? I didn't follow it all that carefully. All I knew is that the pick sent a message to McKenzie - "we now have an option."

I don't know if the draft was thin or not, but I definitely agree that Stevenson has to affirmatively win the job to make the 53. If he just looks as good as Mac and has potential, that's not enough. McKenzie is useful, experienced and reliable. Stevenson has to win the job.

On the other hand, I suppose that's what training camp is for - getting the wrinkles out. Maybe his consistency was the result of some new and better pass catching habits and today's drop was just a momentary relapse. If so, the drop may reinforce the importance the new habits and redouble his efforts. As I say often, we'll see.

My view of catching the football is like a lot people's view about QB accuracy - it's hard to teach it. Guys with sticky hands are sticky when they come into the league (like Davis), and it sounds like we're all getting frustrated with the fact that Knox doesn't seem to have learned the skill he didn't come with. Now, granted, they didn't throw to him in college, so he hasn't had a lot of experience catching the ball in quality live action, but he's taken a ton of reps through college and the pros, and it just shouldn't be an adventure when you throw to him. It was a known problem that he should have worked on in the off-season after his rookie season, and definitely after year 2. He simply shouldn't be dropping the ball. On the other hand, McKenzie had trouble catching anything difficult a couple years ago, and last season he began to look like a reliable pass catcher, so maybe there's still hope for Knox. However, I gotta believe McDermott and Daboll are looking at their other options. The tight end will get open in this offense, and Allen needs to know the guy is going to catch the ball when Allen goes that way.

Those are all fair points. Roberts was a natural back there, catching the ball and going. Like Hyde. I'm always comfortable when Hyde is back there. But one of the comments from Farwell is that he can't keep McKenzie off the JUGS machine. It's pretty clear that McDermott likes Mac not just because of the Swiss-Army-knife factor, but also his dedication. He clearly improved last season as a receiver, it sounds like he's taking seriously the punt return job. My view on punt returning is that top-end speed isn't so important any more. In the modern NFL, with the rules as they are, and with the specialization of players and teams, punt returns for touchdowns are becoming rare. The punting team has to make a mistake to give up a touchdown. I think the best you can reasonably expect is a guy who can get you 10 to 15 or 20 yards, which is a nice flip in field position. That doesn't require top-end speed; it requires recognition and quickness - it's classic broken field running. That's why I mentioned Saimes, who most people here never saw. He was a master at it - he wasn't going to outrun everyone to the end zone, but he'd get you 15 when everyone else would get you 5 or 7. Anyway, like all the positions (except tight end - Knox dropped another today? C'mon, man!) on the Bills this season, the Bills have punt returning covered with McKenzie. If anyone can beat him out, it's just an upgrade over a solid answer.

Admittedly, I have not been a McKenzie fan, but it's certainly sounding like he's the guy. I am a big Roberts fan. More so than almost any other position, punt returning is an instinct skill, instinct and quickness. Roberts has the instinct; I don't see it in McKenzie. George Saimes had the instinct. Roscoe Parish did. Hyde has the instinct but not the high-end quickness or speed McKenzie has. McKenzie is fast, he can change direction, but he doesn't seem to anticipate the openings the way Roberts did. And I don't buy the criticism of Roberts making bad judgments on kickoffs. Roberts very clearly did what he was told to do - NOBODY plays for McDermott who doesn't do what he's coached. So when Roberts brought the ball out of the end zone, he did because he was told he could do it if he saw certain things. When he saw those things, he went. If he misread something, it showed up in the film and they coached him. He wasn't a loose cannon back there. But having said all that, my worst-case view of McKenzie returning kicks is that he's serviceable. He was a better receiver last season than in previous years, and it sounds like he's still learning in both roles.

Two interesting points. As to the first, they didn't have trouble cutting Hauschka and going with Bass. McBeane aren't afraid. Still, to be willing to give up Hughes and go with a lot of unproven guys is a big bet. As to Hughes relative, I think you're absolutely right. He's much more valuable to the Bills than to any other team.

Oh, yeah. If you haven't watched this video, it's worth the time. Gives you a view of Allen's life in football from his childhood. Interesting.

Although I agree with you about the penalties, the leadership, and the overall quality play - he's downright solid and effective, I could see a scenario where he gets traded. I don't think it will happen, because he's a veteran leader and quality contributor, but ... suppose some combination of Efe, Rousseau, Basham and Epenesa looks like they are going to take substantial playing time from Hughes. I don't think that will happen, but if it did, Hughes could become expendable. I don't think that will happen, in part because I don't know that his trade value is very high. Who would want him? He's not an impact pass rusher, which is what everyone is looking for. He's a long-term, quality player and leader, but at this point in his career, he doesn't have the time to become a long-term leader anywhere else. All of this tells me Hughes isn't going anywhere, and we'll be happy to have him (except that someone the Bills cut might turn out to be a contributor somewhere else).

I could see this happening. I too think fans will be surprised by the running game. Someone will emerge, and someone will be strong second. The o line os what will make the difference.

I don't pay for much, but I pay for the Athletic. Every week or two there's something there I like reading. It's good stuff.

I think when you're talking elite, you're really talking elite out of the 22. Yes, Bass could emerge as one of the best kickers in the league, but there's a reason kickers don't get paid huge dollars, and that's because they can't have huge impact on the game. Yes, it helps a lot if the guy has distance and accuracy on field goals and can place the ball on kickoffs, but that's just doing your job at a high level. Elite guys make game-changing plays. I have trouble seeing Knox ever being that guy, but I'll certainly be happy if he steps up. Rousseau is a guy who could step up. Rousseau has unusual gifts, and DE is one of those positions where a rookie with special skills can make a big impact. Stevenson is the other rookie who could surprise people. Guys with speed sometimes make immediate impact.

I really know very little about him and haven't seen him, but at least his history suggests that he may have more upside than the typical player his age. He's played a lot less football in good competition than the typical player. Still, the most we can hope for is what you say.

Always amazed me that Vince Young and Matt Leinart were drafted 3rd and 10th in the NFL draft and BOTH played for the Bills. Two of the more remarkable draft busts (if you consider that Leinart likely would have gone #1 if he'd entered the draft a year earlier). Maybe I'm going to have read this list.