Success

This really ticked me off - I thought it was incredibly mean spirited. But, I'm inclined not to judge to harshly. I wouldn't want to be judged by my worst stuff when I was in my 20's.

We're definitely missing a true #1 - but it's really not even close to the worst group. Samuel is better than what we saw last year - I'm surprised he even played w/ turf toe. Coleman looked great before his injury. A lot of the success of this group depends on him taking a step this year. We know we can rely on Shakir, and I think Palmer - though not a star - is a good separate guy and gives us some versatility. Shenault is kind of a wildcard - I remember some here wanted him in that draft, and he hasn't had great situations. I think it's a better group than what we had last year. Not by a mile or anything - but it's fine when you have a QB like JA.

I look at the 2 top AFC teams while the Bills were going through the drought. The Patriots rarely made big investments in WR's. Moss was the exception, and they didn't win the SB with him. They did win the SB fairly often w/ not much more than what we have at WR, and sometimes less. The Colts DID invest in WR's, often - 1st round picks, FA acquisitions. They made 2 SB's and won 1. When you have a QB as good as Allen, Brady, Manning, et al. - the best thing you can do is build the O-line into a top unit. If that QB has time, he doesn't need superstar receivers. Allen was MVP last year with arguably a worse WR corps than what we will have this season. There is too much hand-wringing about WR.

That's really it. They have come up short to this point, despite best intentions. But you have to keep trying. I certainly like the picks - but we just won't know for a couple of years if they got it right this time.

And the offense can score more points when the defense holds the opposing offense to fewer points.

I have always contended that we probably wouldn't know the name of either guy if they were in half of the teams in the league. Brady made them stars.

I wish I could thank this more than I did.

Our opponents have averaged over 33 points per game in our playoffs losses. Our offense is always going to score w/ Allen & a solid surrounding cast. We didn't need a round 3 receiver in a pretty middlin' receiver draft to move the needle there. But we need a defense that can shut teams down. I don't know how this draft will pan out - but I like the mindset, the strategy and the picks. In the 1st 4 rounds, every pick we got was expected to go before our pick by most pundits I saw, and they all bring something to the table that we haven't really had. I love this draft. Combined w/ our FA additions, it's hard to see this defense being any less than top 5 (and not just statistically).

Um.....how? It's the SEVENTH ROUND.

Wasn't Stevie J. a 7th rounder?

Honestly, you just seem intent on disproving the idea that New England didn't make big investments in WR's. Still haven't quite managed that, however.

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to glean from this. My original point stands: the Pats won their SB's with pretty middlin' receiver corps.

BB didn't spend a lot of time trying to get top receivers. He had a franchise QB, and without doubt, his TOP PRIORITY was to protect that QB. They consistently had a top O-line, and a receiver corps populated by guys that would have been no names on many other teams. How's that? More understandable?

Okay.

Not really the point I was trying to make - which was that they won 6 SB's w/ receiver corps that are pretty much on par w/ what we have, or worse.

For me - as much as I still hate them - the Pats are the blueprint. Build the trenches, build a championship D, have a top O-line. If you have a great QB, he can make stars out of middlin' guys. The only time the Pats really invested in a top WR, they didn't win a SB.

I still think Kincaid makes a leap. We've seen the potential - he just hasn't put it all together yet. I expect Coleman to be much more of a contributor - he was looking great before his injury. Samuel isn't a star, but he played w/ turf toe all last year. Josh Palmer is a very good addition. Shakir is always reliable. I'm pretty certain that we'll see a better passing game this year. I'm just not worried about the offense. It feels like they always show up. This team needs a championship-caliber defense.

They're not throwaway - but some here are talking like we can still fill needs in the late rounds. Yes, some guys there CAN pan out - but generally, you're taking fliers on players that have upside and could surprise. These aren't rounds that you get any immediate starters in, generally speaking.

Well, it's not like a 6th rounder receiver would have turned the world upside down on offense or anything.

The Browns are getting mocked - but they did just get a guy that some thought they'd take in the top 5 in the 5th round.

Forrest & ideally, Bishop.

I know you're kidding here - but the Pats fear on this board isn't very rational, imo. It's more based on PTSD than on reality. Their future depends entirely on if Maye ends up being more of the guy that flashed on a few amazing plays last year, or on the guy who kept throwing game-ending picks on the last drive.

It's a 4th rounder. And the safety they got earlier was a major reach.

We don't have a lot of top-end talent in that unit, but I still think it's a pretty deep WR corps. With the TE's and RB's we have also, our offense will still be formidable. I still expect us to take someone, though. Shakir was a 5th rounder; you never know when it comes to WR's.

Our draft is getting a lot of praise so far - but the praise I've seen for this pick is off the charts. Seems like most had him going much higher than this.