Ayjent

Trade Dawkins for a second round pick, and use that second to trade for a damaged goods, low effort receiver. Don’t worry we’ll draft for that hole at T in an upcoming draft in the 7th round or overpay in FA - just be patient. Sign a street free agent T for a couple million and then cut him to create more dead cap - I gotta fever and the only prescription is that we gotta have more dead cap dammit! (Think “more cowbell” skit) Promote Juan Castillo to both DC and OL coach (believe it or not he has been a DC before - that didn’t go well btw) and clap profusely.

They had some fight to them after things got out of hand early, but they are very mistake prone and have penalties that are just crushing blows on the few good offensive plays they put together. Speaking of the refs... Officiating left something to be desired IMO. They should’ve blown the whistle immediately with Jones losing his helmet. that was just a nasty, nasty hit even with a helmet on. They gave the Bills a first down on a personal foul that gave them a new set of downs down in Chargers territory , but didn’t move the ball. I don’t know how it was missed, but I think the Bills were just thankful to have the drive extended. Maybe I am missing something, but that was my recollection, and I could be wrong. The personal foul on Hughes was garbage too. Not as bad as the Clay Matthews roughing the passer call yesterday, but in the same ball park. Is it just a matter of time before you can’t touch the QB in the throwing motion, like a punter? One has to wonder if the McDermott play calling and V. Davis retirement are related incidents - you could definitely see something where the coach lays into the team and says were making a couple of changes to who is play calling and starting. Whether Beane and McDermott know what they’re sowing is a different question that has been discussed at length on this board since the offseason? I’m skeptical, because I see obvious things that they did to themselves personnel and coaching wise that doesn’t give the two young guys they went with at QB the support that would help them succeed. Ultimately you want to see how well they perform where they can succeed not where only very few could? And you want to see it ASAP so that you can assess it and not be left with questions down the road because of negative factors. The INTs bothered me a little, because one just wasn’t a very good pass, the other was understandable with a guy trying to bring him down. But those are expected from a guy trying to make something happen. He had some really open guys that were completions but didn’t exactly throw accurate balls that could have been much bigger plays. But again he made the right throw and not even the great ones through dimes on every completion. The biggest concern to me is him holding the ball - that’s a trait that is hard to break unless it is a product of no one being open or not being comfortable with the first read throw. Still promising, and you can see the areas he needs to improve on...making those steps and improving with consistency will be the key. No guarantees with him, but you see the talent that made him a first rounder. I wasn’t a fan of the pick, but I am remaining optimistic because his development may be the definition of success or failure for this year and this regime.

No. I've only been here since they shut down BBMB although I did check out these forums from time to time before then because they had some good discussions. Generally, the discussions here are better and not as sanitized as the other board. I think people on forums are generally pretty intelligent because they aren't rapid fire, x character or less thoughts trying to get people to react and respond (although that does occur here too). Some people presume others are stupid or mean something that they don't because they take or don't take a particular position - that drives me crazy, and it drives me crazy that people who are fans of the same team with a lot of the same interests as far as the topics being discussed go after each other with such venom sometimes. It's like a bunch of people with Internet road rage. I'll admit that I've been negative about this team for a while, because they've done some pretty questionable things that seem pretty obvious to me. However, it's much easier to observe a chess game and point out bad moves than it is to play a chess game and make good moves - so I get that what seems obvious from a distant perspective may be a difficult call when you are close to action and all the other factors you may have to consider (at least that's the way I try to see it), but I know that a grand 3-5 yr plan isn't usually the reality of how a team is built and operates because there are too many variables changing at all times.

And this isn't vapid complaining? I'm a fan of this team and I always want them to win, even when they do stupid things, but it doesn't mean that they get a pass from me because I am a fan. I'll be the first one explaining why someone on the Bills is better than anyone else in the league and how the Bills are doing things right - these things just need to happen sometime for me to do so. The Bills do questionable things and the results speak for themselves - this regime is no different, they just do different questionable things than the last regime. I'm patient, but the writing is on the wall, we'll see how adaptive they are to their mistakes (and believe me they've made plenty in this "process") and where they go from here, but for people to rationalize the current state of the Bills as part of a larger plan that was expected is a bit naive.

I wonder if they will be anchors or buoys - looking like anchors with 2/3 right now, but still some time for it all to shake out. All is well is Allen turns out to be a stud, but going to be an uphill climb for him with the cast around him. Especially, considering the relative cost in draft capital compared to how they could have handled the position and OL in front of him. - Allen was the most expensive option for the Bills. The overall cost for the Bills moving up from 21 to 7 was (Cordy Glenn, No. 21 pick, and two second round picks (No. 53 and No. 56)). They could have kept Cordy Glenn, had one pretty nice 2nd round pickto address improving the line, and had Mahomes or Watson to sit behind Tyrod for a year with a better line (all hindsight I understand, but that is a much better situation for a QB to succeed and was certainly within the realm of possibility). Yeah, maybe you don't have Tre White and Tre Edmunds, but they created those holes they need to fill too. I wasn't a big fan of them moving up for Allen and drafting him at all, but he's shown to be better than I thought he would be so far. His accuracy yesterday on wide open throws and time he takes in the pocket are concerning, but there were some good things to like as well - he definitely pushed the ball down the field and isn't shy about going for the big play.

And so could anyone in Buffalo if the Bills actually thought that those things were important and were good at talent evaluation - they let WRs go to FA (Woods, Goodwin), traded them (Watkins), and picked up poor replacements (Matthews, Benjamin, and Jones) - BTW I was fine with Goodwin and Watkins moves (Watkins isn't as good as advertised and they sold as high as they could - which was pretty good haul). The vets the brought in were both coming off significant injuries, and the rookie they drafted with a high pick is Cra-Zay - they didn't address interior line that was aging at the time of the 2017 draft, and then retired (albeit unexpectedly in Wood's case and somewhat predictably in Incognito's case) after the 2017 season - in 2017 they hired an OL line coach that has a pretty uninspiring track record before the OC, and then hired a poor choice at OC, after the season they fired the OC and kept the OL coach (where many of the issues with the Offense came from). - In 2018 they hired an OC with a very bad resume as an OC in the NFL, only having success as a TE coach and co-OC for the two most established teams - New England and Alabama (neither have missed a beat without him) - and who knows how much control he actually has, because he certainly had to accept the OL coach as part of his staff. - they had two Tackles that could have anchored the line in 2018, they traded one of them for a draft pick right before the draft -they didn't address the interior line until the 5th round of the draft this past draft and signed bottom of the barrel free agents -they traded away an established starter at QB to learn behind for a third round pick, and signed a guy that had 4 starts in his NFL career, then traded him for a 5th round pick leaving only Allen and a 2nd year guy who had two starts that were underwhelming. So could their have been a better situation for a young QB in Buffalo? Yes. Instead they made many moves to make that situation worse. But they have money next year, right? I can't wait for them to stop playing it coy and show us how smart they are with FA and draft picks - I know they are just playing 'possum.

I really hope they have a solid game plan to build some confidence on O.

Is the OLine going to be completely addressed? The FAs are either going to be crap or way overpriced unless you can trade for good player on the line, and that is not going to happen for any current players, because the team has very few good trade assets outside of picks. So the draft right? Well...they’ve had two drafts to address aging vets and a horrid right side - the vets retired and they traded away the only bona fide above average talent on the line. Dawkins looked pretty good, but so did John miller in his first year. So next year? Maybe but they’ve got of holes they made themselves that they need to fix. Apparently it wasn’t a priority to protect their QB of the future when they could have a MLB, who knows what other position might look more attractive for a trade up next year. Remember they could’ve also not used a 2nd on Zay Jones and could’ve addressed the line then too ( I know Beane wasn’t the GM yet, but Castillo was). Oh and Castillo is not the guy you want grooming young linemen either. So...I hope it all works out and I’m wrong, but I wouldn’t bet on it.

The rules don’t favor running teams - the likelihood of getting called for penalties on running plays is higher for the offense. The rules favor passing a lot - there are so many penalties that can result in automatic first downs when passing that’s why the best offensive teams are usually pass heavy - illegal contact, defensive holding, pass interference, roughing the passer, defenseless receiver, etc. It’s why the draw play on third and long is one of the dumbest play calls in pro football. Even a team that can run the ball like the Steelers get pass happy, because they know it’s to their advantage. The Bills can’t do either because the O line is a hot steaming pile - bad coaching and not enough talent. That’s on the process for having two drafts and two FA periods to address the line better (Incognito and Wood were at the end of their careers either way) - they basically treaded water at LT if I’m being kind and did very little to address the other positions that were below average or lost starters. You don’t get better on the line by having only two good tackles and trading away one of them, and going with bottom of the barrel FAs and late round picks to address the rest of your way below average OL.

He’s a serviceable starter...and he’s showed it. He’s not a great QB and he’s not a franchise guy, but you can do a lot worse. He’s the perfect guy to keep around until you get better options, just like Fitz was. Same mistake, different front office. He he would have struggled even more than in past seasons in Buffalo this year anyhow with the way the talent on Offense has gone down. The one thing I think sunshine and unicorn fans don’t realize is that in football, you can’t just build with a demolition job to the roster - the pressure to hit on all of your draft picks and free agent signings is immense and no one is consistently that good in talent evaluation - we’d already have seen that on display if they were, and quite the contrary as far as FAs go, and the draft strategy has been baffling to some degree with the lack of focus on the OL. OL needs time to develop as individuals and as a unit as well, but is a necessary component to protecting your huge investment in a top 10draft pick at QB. How many bad contracts are they going to have to sign to get the best FAs on the market on the OL and WR positions? Having a lot of money under the cap is best used to keep guys you covet and develop on your team, not guys that other teams don’t think are worth the money they’ll get in FA? So keep letting the Bills blow sunshine up your caboose, but the train is going off the rails ahead - it’s pretty clear if you’re paying attention. This is “the process” of destroying a team which will take many, many years to correct and it will become clear to even the most optimistic fans (well there are some that will bill-lieve in “the process” no matter the evidence until its officially over) after next year that they really had a terrible plan. Look I get why people wanted to move on from Tyrod, but you’ve got to get a better depth chart at QB than they put together. If they were willing to take a flyer on Corey Coleman for a 7th round pick and 3.5 mill salary, why not Bridgewater for no draft pick and 6 mill? We’re they concerned about Bridgewater being good enough to create a controversy if they wanted to start their rookie draft pick? I would hope not, but I would think that Buffalo was a more attractive option for Bridgewater being a playoff team and a better path to starting. I just don’t think the Bills were interested.

I couldn't wait for this one...Tebow vs. Peterman?!!!! Sorry, Peterman is the champ I'm not going to bite and go against a Bill that owns a distinction as an all-timer.

Like that's stopped the Bills from trotting out Peterman

If this isn't reason enough I don't know what is. Just think of the great raps they could come up with Tebow in Buffalo.

And they've shown that they are willing to pay for game-changing talent? Only in dead cap space after moving their most talented players that they could get anything for. Shady, Clay and Hughes are pretty much not even worth entertaining trades for unless they are just looking to unload them for pennies on the dollar. Look having Cordy Glenn's contract as expensive as it was, is better than having to roll the dice in FA and get into bidding wars and recruitment- you would have had two good tackles rather than one and provide some consistency and a known commodity (yeah he didn't play last year, but he is a proven above average Tackle). Maybe you don't have the ammunition to get both Allen and Edmunds, but you do have protection for the marquee asset you looked to acquire, which was clearly always going to be a QB. Assuring some stability on a shaky situation on the OL that was known at the time of the trade just seems like it could have been a smart way to give the young group of QBs better protection. Even with all of the money that they are going to have - the product being put on the field better improve or no one is going to be attracted to coming to Buffalo. It's already going to be a hard sell with all of the inexperience at QB (Buffalo in general is a hard sell for some players regardless of the promise of the team) unless Allen shows some serious growth and good performances - or unless you are looking for mercenaries looking for the best contract, not necessarily concerned about the long term effect it may have on their careers. Right now they are setting themselves up for overpaying a lot of FAs - so we transition from one cap crises to another burgeoning one if the FA signings don't pan out. However, this one will be fully owned by the Process. Hopefully, we are not going to be romanticizing about the Whaley years as at least having talent despite poor coaching, poor drafting and a trainwreck power structure in the organization because the Process doesn't pan out. I'm terrified about the Process right now and it's not a game 1 reaction, it's everything that they did this offseason with the roster and the decision making process on the QB situation and the Offense they put around these guys.

If “the process” of evaluating QBs is always going to be this good, watch out NFL. Not sure who is making the final call on personnel, but it’s a red flag regardless - was Daboll on board? If so what’s that say? If not what’s that say about the dynamic? At least Marrone knew to make a stink and demand a another vet option at QB. This staff said let’s get rid of the most veteran guy, not try to get another vet and ride with Peterman and Allen. If everyone was on the same page....yikes.

I’m not assuming he did I’m simply pointing out an example of someone that fits what the Bills needed. I’m pretty sure “the process” liked McCarron more though. A 5th round pick is barely addressing the OL. For every Kyle Williams, there are hundreds of guys that never have much of a career drafted that low. Don’t you measure growth to some degree by success? RG3 had someone design an offense where he could flourish, and then that all changed and he was asked to be a different QB. He may have grown a lot in that process but it never lead to success for him or his teams, because his dual threat attribute was gone and he was asked to be something he simply isn’t a pure pocket passer. . Put a QB in a position to succeed and the growth will happen naturally.

That's a crowded market right now, isn't it? A different take is to provide a positive perspective for those who are tired of the local and national media beating up their team. It's working. I never suggested anything was influenced by OBD, just saying that they have a market for positive Bills news in saturated bad news Bills market.

Come on any article that lauds the Star signing should be looked at a tad skeptically. It's not a bad article, but its certainly one of those pieces that they are trying to sell to demoralized fan base. The obvious issues are skirted over (like failure to address the O line in the draft or FA in a meaningful way - na 5th round pick and a couple of below average OL FAs doesn't really scream investment in protecting your investment at QB). Even if you buy into the Tyrod point of view in the article, the fact remains that they could have signed Bridgewater at the level of 6 mil/yr or kept McCarron as a substantial investment in having the luxury to sit Allen if he wasn't ready in their eyes. Then the cap issues are kind of glossed over on how a team cap strapped created even more dead cap with a couple of their moves this offseason.

Here is the thing about EJ - he was a much more finished prospect than a lot of fans realized - he played a lot of games in a pro-style system with good QB coaching at FSU. He wasn't some raw talent that just needed good coaching, he was an inaccurate passer and had a multitude of inconsistencies in his game and mechanics and it was maddening to all of his coaches because once one thing was addressed the others would pop back up. Someone who covered FSU called his inconsistencies "whack a mole" and it was as if these inconsistencies became more pronounced every year and especially in games against good defenses. That's why a lot of scouts didn't really see him as a NFL starter, and really the Bills seemed to ignore the book on EJ as if they were much smarter than the rest or just so sure they could be the ones to right his issues (maybe both). The coaching he got wasn't helpful either as you pointed out - he needed someone who was really good at his craft in grooming QBs. EJ would have been serviceable, but not really good - probably as good as Jason Campbell in his peak (that's not really a compliment, but I think they were similar prospects with Campbell having better mechanics).

No argument here, but he also needs real coaching and we're about to find out what we have in that department. They obviously didn't think he was ready, but can you really trust the "process" when it comes to judging QB talent? Early results are in and the answer is looking like a "no", but I hold out hope that they can get this turned around. Maybe Allen has it start coming together for him over the next couple of games, but he needs a game plan and play calling that helps him succeed.

The question about Carr was how much did he have to do with getting hit so much. I think he had a lot to do with it, because he had poor pocket presence and he really was never that good at making quick reads and getting rid of the ball - he was a skittish QB and it wasn't just the OL in front of him. It's one of the things that worries me about Allen to be honest, he holds the ball too long and gets a little skittish back in the pocket as well. It's not a consistent trait, because sometimes he moves well in the pocket and makes the right call when to tuck and run, but he needs to be more fluid in the pocket and be quicker getting the ball out even if he has to force some throws into tight coverage.

Doubtful he has what it takes even if everything was "properly" handled. He doesn't have enough arm strength and he doesn't have enough tools to overcome that issue. Couple that with the fact that he doesn't make great decisions under pressure and you have a guy that probably doesn't last in the league very long. I'll give you that the Bills may have accelerated the time table for him to get out of the league, but Peterman doesn't have what it takes to be an NFL starter, and its doubtful he has what it takes to be a backup.

Goff may still very well look like trash and be on his way out had Fisher remained coach. Good coaching and player develop matter a lot, as much as natural ability. I think you need both to be successful in the NFL as a QB, and it's not a one or the other proposition. Good coaching can make a marginal talent look passable, and good talent look great, but it can't really make a bad QB magically into a passable starter. There are guys that just don't have what it takes and it is usually pretty clear off the bat. It's not always the case, but look at Watson and Darnold the past two years (played well right away). You can see guys like Wilson, Prescott, Newton and Ryan who also came into the league playing well. Goff is a good demonstration of what bad coaching vs. good coaching can do to a QB. Sometimes guys are so good they can overcome bad coaching and shine, but not all can (see Alex Smith and how his career turnaround once he was coached by Harbaugh/Roman, then another QB friendly coach in Reid, and now another one in Jay Gruden). Some guys do take a little time to develop, some guys come out and they are who they are with a little improvement along the way. Andy Dalton is who he is - he's been about as good as he's been since he started as a rookie, not much improvement. Matt Stafford improved a lot more, but he's still prone to making silly mistakes that have plagued him since he was a rookie. Mariotta has improved some since starting, but not a ton. Winston has improved a little but still does things that are maddening.

Brian "da Vinci" Daboll - I agree 1 game is not a fair assessment - but the most impressive part of his resume was that he was part of excellent teams that were good before and after he left, and the most damning are his stints where he was asked to be the guy to improve a team. I'm hoping for the best with him because it will take true genius to get this unit to look like a capable offense.