Ayjent

Who had him first? He was the third QB selected. Yes it is highly debateable the Browns and Jets FO know what it takes to win, but the Bills are in that same area code. In January he wasn’t even viewed as a 1st round pick by most draft “gurus”. I hope you are right, but I see him as a guy that rose significantly in the build up to the draft. These guys that rise like this at QB rarely pan out. https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/1/26/16932920/josh-allen-wyoming-quarterback-hype-nfl-draft

You’re right No. 22 was KCs pick. You still have to keep that KC trade part of the equation because it factors into the maneuvers they made and why. You could expand it to show all of the capital that went into three guys. If they hit home runs they are geniuses, but anything less is going to be painful, especially if any one of these guys turn out to be a franchise QB: Rosen, Jackson, Watson or Mahomes. Tre White + Tre Edmunds + Josh Allen, picks 154 + 255 = pick 10 (2017), picks 12, 21, 22, 53, 56, and 65, Cordy Glenn and Sammy Watkins

You can look at it this way 2017: Draft pick 10 + Sammy Watkins = Tre White, EJ Gaines + 2018 (picks 21 + 56) 2018: Draft picks 12, 21, 53 and 56 + Cordy Glenn = pick 7 Net Result: Josh Allen + Tre White = pick 10 (2017), picks 12, 21, 53, 56, Cordy Glenn and Sammy Watkins I know why they traded Glenn and Watkins, just pointing out the cost. Never liked the Watkins pick but if you put his draft capital cost into the equation it gets even uglier.

Yeah that’s a good summary of the problem with the two 1st round picks, no room for error, and less players to save your ass if you screw one up. Ah the good ol’ players that can make plays playing football. I’m glad that is what they are looking for. In other news employers are looking for employees that can work.

Dude I’m losing no sleep over a silly game played that I watch on TV as a distraction for a couple of hours. Whining? Okay. I watch a lot of football because I enjoy the strategy of the game and you can easily spot good players in college if you just pay attention. They did a lot of maneuvering with draft picks but to me it looks like they made a lot of moves and passed up a lot of players to get extra picks and then undid all of that to get two boom or bust prospects. Just looks like they made bad moves and I’m pointing it out. I may be wrong, and I hope I am, but it’s just what I see. We’ll see what I know, but I’ll gladly praise Beane if he got it right. I doubt he did, though. Also they didn’t need to jump anyone to get Edmunds most likely, no one else was looking for a LB ahead them. And he’s a bit of a risky prospect because of his youth - the history of NFL players drafted that young isn’t great. Could be a really good pick, but still a risky one. I didnt mind them moving up for the QB pick, and I figured Tampa made sense as an NFC team that didn’t need a QB. Didn’t want Allen to be the pick though. He wasn’t impressive on the field and there isn’t much else to discuss about him other than some hope in his potential - because there isn’t much of a history of consistent good play from him. Rosen had his flags as well, but is a much better passer and I thought that was what the team needed. Not another inconsistent, inaccurate athlete.

On the positive side - this 19 yr old kid looks like he could be really awesome with good health and good coaching.

I know boards had moved him up to the top by March/April - but at the end of the NCAA season Allen and Jackson were likely 2nd rounders, definitely not considered with the big 3 of Darnold, Rosen, and Mayfield. It's funny how all of this stuff shakes out during the time between the end of the College season and the draft. So he looked really impressive as an athlete and probably didn't come off as an arrogant jackass in the interviews so he rose up the boards, but not because of his on-field abilities, because of his potential. We see these guys rise like this all the time - Gabbert, Tannehill, and Mahomes as well (although I liked his game way more than Allen's, but still thought the Chiefs were crazy taking him so high). Honestly, Allen's situation in Buffalo isn't a sure thing. Tyrod and vets like Shady, Wood, Incognito, and Kyle were the backbone of the team - 3 of those guys are gone and one is going to be done. Shady isn't going to get better with age either. Beane has done an excellent job clearing some cap space for the upcoming years, but a lot of talent was shipped out or let walk - they got to the playoffs last year, but that was a gift courtesy of the Bengals and we all know it. I think we all have a pretty good idea that we are looking at a step backwards because of the QB position and OL this year. An aging feature back, questionable WRs, and a shaky OL aren't exactly a perfect situation for a project QB or even a guy like McCarron to step into.

You're not seeing the parallels - they got rid of their decent, but not long-term starting QB (Fitz/Taylor) and then felt desperate to get their unproven, project QB. In both instances the decision could have been more measured and prudent without overreaching or giving up a lot of draft capital on a QB that is far from a sure thing, and has one of the biggest red flags that QBs can have - accuracy issues (both EJ and Allen were rated very low in that respect). If you want to argue about differences, you could make the case that Manuel had already hit his ceiling in college - he was who he was by the time his senior year came around. Allen seems to have a little more room to grow playing with more talent around him (but maybe not in front of him - the OL isn't looking too good right now). I hope that I am humbled and wrong - I want the guy to succeed now that he is a Bill, but I'm pretty confident that the Bills didn't get the best QB available to them in the past two drafts and that is how you've got to assess this draft - they moved back last year and gave up opportunities to move up this year - will Allen be better than Watson, Mahomes, Rosen and Jackson - that should be how this should be judged.

He also coached his own ass right out of the NFL here in Buffalo doing absolutely nothing with the Offense. This assessment is about as reliable as a meth head showing up for work.

That's because national people don't talk about guys that no one knows that well outside of Buffalo, and they try to justify their own boards comparing to the best case potential. They aren't going to go to the EJ Manuel and JP Losman comparisons because those names are associated with ****ty QB play that is very specific to Buffalo - they'd go with Jamarcus Russel, Ryan Leaf, etc. if they were going to talk about downside - and the media have talked about Josh Allen in that way as well.

Anyone got the odds on that one? I'm going with break - all in. Actually I'd even say it will be this draft in general, because this was the restock the cupboard draft after jettisoning lots of pretty talented players. Sure you needed to get a QB, but giving away even more assets to move up again? Come on man. That's blowing your load before you even get started.

I hope so too, but I think its delusional. Blaine Gabbert clone. The good news is that they may still be able to get Teddy Bridgewater if the Jets release him.

Great - he has good measurables, and is a good athlete that is only so so at playing QB. Sweet pick. Way to turn 6 picks in the first three rounds (2 in each) into Josh Allen, a pretty good looking, but inexperienced 19 yr old LB and a late 3rd round pick. I see that you did this draft right in Doug Whaley's honor.

Yet we see these NFL FOs operate every year and know that they really have no better clue than the avid fans of football and in the case of the Bills historically, that may be giving the FO way too much credit.

Me either - sometimes you just got to roll the dice and hope you don't get snake eyed.

You sure the guy wasn't trying to give you Rosin in exchange for a little "howya do"?

Yeah he can play when he is on the field but he continually gets in trouble and you know the NFL has no problem suspending players - he will likely spend a good deal of his career like Josh Gordon. Too bad for him, but now was the time to get your act together for a couple of months to make some money, maybe it isn’t that important to him, and maybe he wants to live it his way. I’ve got no problem with that, but it won’t help his career as a pro athlete.

I was astounded at how the Nix/Whaley Crew sat on their hands for many drafts and then pulled the trigger for a QB that had no business being picked any higher than the 3rd round, when they had so many better prospects available to them throughout the prior drafts at a bargain. I hear what you are saying about this class being good, but with your highest picks being 21 and 22 in the first round, and the No. 10 pick you traded away last year going to a team that picked a QB - that move is forever going to be how this year is judged. Mahomes/Watson versus whomever the Bills are able to land and what it cost. I'm just not sure they are going to be able to get the guy they may covet the most, even with everything that they've amassed and I think it is foolish to give up next year's 1st round pick since the QB position is basically going to be a three pony race among guys with less than 5 NFL starts and an OL that just lost or traded its Starting C, LG, and LT and the returning positions have been the weakest link on the OL for years - Dawkins will likely be fine, but the rest of the line is a Big ?. That kind of starting experience and OL turnover is a good formula for landing a top 10 pick in 2019. Don't get me wrong Tre White is a very good player and Mahomes and Watson may not actually pan out - it may be a good move after all, but if the Bills end up spending all of their draft capital that they amassed and the player they get is a lesser player than Mahomes or Watson, then the Bills FO is still a few steps behind the better teams and Beane/McDermott don't look so wise. Especially if they end up giving up a 1st in next year's draft and have a poor season with no first round pick and having jettisoned a lot of talent off the team in the short time they've been in Buffalo. Look I'm excited they finally snapped the drought, but I think it was a very fortunate and lucky season. Maybe McDermott is a special coach that can make it work with the right talent, not necessarily exceptional talent, but I do think that the culmination of the moves they made give them a very thin margin to be successful.

They also felt like they had a shot with Peterman in San Diego.

They gave up opportunities last year without costing a ton of draft capital. Instead they opted to load up for this draft. They put themselves here.

We shall see, but we won't really know until we see some live action.

Yeah its why not making a move until you know what is available is smart. Moving up to 5 today makes no sense if you it plays out that you are SoL on the guys you would've picked at QB that high. I think they make the move if it is possible on draft day for pick 6-11.

You can keep the guy and put yourself in a better position to take players when you see the opportunity and not bet the farm and hope you win. Water under the bridge, but I never said to settle for Tyrod. My point was that it makes a lot more sense to keep a decent QB until you are sure you have a better option. And giving up a decent starter at QB for a 3rd rounder isn't going to get you any closer to a better option.

Orton - not really. His year in Buffalo was a really a good year for Orton by his own standards. However, Tthe Offense under Tyrod was significantly better the year after Orton, Taylor had a better TD:Int Ratio, a better QB rating and the Offense produced more points per game. Fitz was too inconsistent, but probably in the same area code as Tyrod - his turnovers and inability to throw deep were too problematic. I'd rather have Tyrod, but I get what you are saying about both. Bledsoe was the benchmark I was referencing without looking up his last start - I did look it up and it was over a decade since his last year as a Bill was 2004 and we all know how that year ended - couldn't beat the backup Steelers.

Statistical production passing - possibly. Overall effectiveness I think Tyrod is a much better player, but we shall see since McCarron hasn't had a ton of opportunity. At this point of their respective careers Tyrod is a much better player than McCarron. I'm not saying that couldn't change with McCarron getting a little more experience, but chances are that McCarron is a downgrade at the Starting QB position from Tyrod. Tyrod's ability to be able to run and run plays that create headaches for defenses are something that McCarron won't be able to provide. He will have to be a significantly better passer and equally as good at limiting turnovers to be better than Tyrod.