Ayjent

I hope so too, but I think its delusional. Blaine Gabbert clone. The good news is that they may still be able to get Teddy Bridgewater if the Jets release him.

Great - he has good measurables, and is a good athlete that is only so so at playing QB. Sweet pick. Way to turn 6 picks in the first three rounds (2 in each) into Josh Allen, a pretty good looking, but inexperienced 19 yr old LB and a late 3rd round pick. I see that you did this draft right in Doug Whaley's honor.

Yet we see these NFL FOs operate every year and know that they really have no better clue than the avid fans of football and in the case of the Bills historically, that may be giving the FO way too much credit.

Me either - sometimes you just got to roll the dice and hope you don't get snake eyed.

You sure the guy wasn't trying to give you Rosin in exchange for a little "howya do"?

Yeah he can play when he is on the field but he continually gets in trouble and you know the NFL has no problem suspending players - he will likely spend a good deal of his career like Josh Gordon. Too bad for him, but now was the time to get your act together for a couple of months to make some money, maybe it isn’t that important to him, and maybe he wants to live it his way. I’ve got no problem with that, but it won’t help his career as a pro athlete.

I was astounded at how the Nix/Whaley Crew sat on their hands for many drafts and then pulled the trigger for a QB that had no business being picked any higher than the 3rd round, when they had so many better prospects available to them throughout the prior drafts at a bargain. I hear what you are saying about this class being good, but with your highest picks being 21 and 22 in the first round, and the No. 10 pick you traded away last year going to a team that picked a QB - that move is forever going to be how this year is judged. Mahomes/Watson versus whomever the Bills are able to land and what it cost. I'm just not sure they are going to be able to get the guy they may covet the most, even with everything that they've amassed and I think it is foolish to give up next year's 1st round pick since the QB position is basically going to be a three pony race among guys with less than 5 NFL starts and an OL that just lost or traded its Starting C, LG, and LT and the returning positions have been the weakest link on the OL for years - Dawkins will likely be fine, but the rest of the line is a Big ?. That kind of starting experience and OL turnover is a good formula for landing a top 10 pick in 2019. Don't get me wrong Tre White is a very good player and Mahomes and Watson may not actually pan out - it may be a good move after all, but if the Bills end up spending all of their draft capital that they amassed and the player they get is a lesser player than Mahomes or Watson, then the Bills FO is still a few steps behind the better teams and Beane/McDermott don't look so wise. Especially if they end up giving up a 1st in next year's draft and have a poor season with no first round pick and having jettisoned a lot of talent off the team in the short time they've been in Buffalo. Look I'm excited they finally snapped the drought, but I think it was a very fortunate and lucky season. Maybe McDermott is a special coach that can make it work with the right talent, not necessarily exceptional talent, but I do think that the culmination of the moves they made give them a very thin margin to be successful.

They also felt like they had a shot with Peterman in San Diego.

They gave up opportunities last year without costing a ton of draft capital. Instead they opted to load up for this draft. They put themselves here.

We shall see, but we won't really know until we see some live action.

Yeah its why not making a move until you know what is available is smart. Moving up to 5 today makes no sense if you it plays out that you are SoL on the guys you would've picked at QB that high. I think they make the move if it is possible on draft day for pick 6-11.

You can keep the guy and put yourself in a better position to take players when you see the opportunity and not bet the farm and hope you win. Water under the bridge, but I never said to settle for Tyrod. My point was that it makes a lot more sense to keep a decent QB until you are sure you have a better option. And giving up a decent starter at QB for a 3rd rounder isn't going to get you any closer to a better option.

Orton - not really. His year in Buffalo was a really a good year for Orton by his own standards. However, Tthe Offense under Tyrod was significantly better the year after Orton, Taylor had a better TD:Int Ratio, a better QB rating and the Offense produced more points per game. Fitz was too inconsistent, but probably in the same area code as Tyrod - his turnovers and inability to throw deep were too problematic. I'd rather have Tyrod, but I get what you are saying about both. Bledsoe was the benchmark I was referencing without looking up his last start - I did look it up and it was over a decade since his last year as a Bill was 2004 and we all know how that year ended - couldn't beat the backup Steelers.

Statistical production passing - possibly. Overall effectiveness I think Tyrod is a much better player, but we shall see since McCarron hasn't had a ton of opportunity. At this point of their respective careers Tyrod is a much better player than McCarron. I'm not saying that couldn't change with McCarron getting a little more experience, but chances are that McCarron is a downgrade at the Starting QB position from Tyrod. Tyrod's ability to be able to run and run plays that create headaches for defenses are something that McCarron won't be able to provide. He will have to be a significantly better passer and equally as good at limiting turnovers to be better than Tyrod.

Problem is that the biggest hole that has put them in desperation mode is by their own hand. How's that 3rd rounder for Tyrod looking right now? I'm not a Tyrod is the answer type guy, but he was a hell of a lot better than who they've had at QB for nearly a decade before him, and he would have allowed the team to operate with a margin for error. People like to think this regime is different than in the past, and I hope that they are right, but they just made a similar mistake they made before drafting EJ

I think the Bills will move up on draft day if they get an opportunity, but I think they are wise to see how things play out and if they can get a guy they want at 6 through 11 which won't cost nearly as much - then they'll try to move on it. I think standing pat is the best option if the cost is too high and Mayfield may drop into the 6-11 range because of concerns about his height and talent ceiling. Realistically though, it does seem like it is going to be a mad scramble and big run to start the draft with several QBs picks. You could see 5 go in the top 10 picks or less (Allen - Browns, Darnold - Giants, Rosen - Jets, Mayfield - Broncos, Jackson - Cardinals/Bills/Dolphins via Trade). BTW if I were the Browns I'd draft two of the top QBs and hold them for ransom, while also giving yourself a chance to put off your QB of the future decision a little longer. They'd also up the ante for any QB left over. The Browns would be silly to draft Barkley - if the Browns were on the cusp of being a real threat to get a Super Bowl, fine get your RB that is the final piece, but drafting a RB (which is the least durable position long term) with their team's talent level makes no sense. I thought the NFL was getting wise to not drafting RBs so high.

Yeah - I think that is why they can't trade next year's pick as part of a deal to move up. They are too precariously close to being a hot steaming pile of garbage on Offense with the three best players from the last couple of years on the OL gone, their starting QB gone, the two best receiving options in Benjamin and Clay aren't exactly on good wheels, and the other WR/TEs have not proven anything other than being also-ran, easily replaceable players. Giving away 1sts in a future draft is too dicey - the cost becomes greater the more you actually need the pick because your team isn't good. If we were talking about a team with an established core somewhere on the team, trading a future 1st is a little more understandable - but I just don't see how this team makes the playoffs this year barring a ridiculously good draft, and I don't see that if they have very few picks in the 1st three rounds. What kind of situation are you bringing this marquee QB prospect into if you keep on gutting the talent on the team and have no draft picks? Look a good QB cures some ills, but its got to be a workable situation with an OL that can provide some protect and there is a large need to properly develop the player with some talent. Providing good coaching and some good line play makes developing a QB a lot easier. This team exceeded expectations because of its turnover differential, playing respectable defense except for a stretch in the middle of the season, and an Offense that was somewhat capable and didn't make a lot of mistakes. The team has seen another seismic shift in talent leaving (Incognito, Wood, Glenn) and would likely be very happy to have the same mistake-free and efficient QB play this year with the guys they have. I just don't see it. This team is being gutted again so that Beane and McDermott can have it exactly their way and that is going to eventually be a problem, unless they are absolutely great in the draft and Free Agency, and that isn't exactly easy. Look I want to trust these guys, but I can't, they were very lucky last year and I think it goes to show just how bad the head coaching job was before McD (especially on the D side of things). Maybe long term it works out and they recreate it the way they see fit, but they are pretty purposefully taking a step back to do so and hoping that coaching and smart signings can make up the difference along the way. I think the Bills were a pretty talented team for the Rex years, and probably should have made the playoffs both years had Rex's D not been a complete disaster - they completely mismanaged the cap to get that talent and keep talent, but it was talented. The Bills finally got some good coaching on D and had an Offense that had familiarity playing together upfront with a decent QB last year = playoffs. Whaley's contracts have been an anchor on Beane to make hard decisions and get rid of guys they may have been better off keeping had they not been saddling the team with bad contracts. I know that it had a lot to do with Glenn and Taylor being traded. And I understand the need to eventually find a better QB. But I still don't get why you get rid of Tyrod, because of the stability, mentorship and consistency he would bring you at the most important position, and it wasn't that much to pay until you know you have something better. If the guys can't beat out Tyrod, then you keep on trying until you find one that does. People will be looking fondly on Tyrod's play if these QBs this year look like a bunch of clowns. I hope that's not the case, but the reality is that a rookie would be pretty impressive to play as well as Tyrod, and I just don't think McCarron or Peterman are even capable of that level of play. I think that the Browns got a great contingency plan in Tyrod, and it took a lot of pressure off of them to make a deal with another team desperate for a QB, including the Bills - which may result in the Browns getting that damned pick back plus a lot more. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Browns shop that No. 1 pick on draft day after posturing that they want it and want to draft Allen - I mean that would be a insanely stupid No.1 overall pick anyhow. The NFL is a QB driven league, but only the Bills get rid of a decent guy before they have a replacement that is as good or better. At least the Chiefs were smart enough to see what Mahomes was all about for a year before trading Smith (I'm not sure it was a wise move, but it makes a lot more sense than what the Bills did).

They put themselves in this pickle, like they’ve done before so I do get irritated with the thought of them giving up all of these draft assets that they acquired by getting rid of good players, and the talent deficit they created - just to gamble on a QB prospect that they “need” because they traded away a guy that was a capable starter. I’m not trying to call Tyrod the answer, but having him gives you the ability to be patient in both the draft and development of your eventual replacement. Now they’ve got two guys with little game experience at QB and a third that’s about to be in the mix - chances are, the deficiencies on the OL and at WR are going to be more pronounced with such inexperience, and DaBoll isn’t some unknown potential NFL genius that will be able to coach the hell out of the Offense (his NFL experience isn’t exactly exciting anyone with reasonable expectations). They’ve got to get an infusion of talent upfront on the OL, and hope that Dawkins keeps on progressing, because they just doubled down on it to move up in the draft. I feel like they need to move up more only if the deal is good and it becomes clear that they may miss out entirely on the top 5 prospects at QB, but again didn’t they create this dire need? They appear desperate because they now are desperate. It would be really sad if we trade up with the Browns and end up giving them back their 3rd and other high picks because they need a guy to replace the guy they traded. If he doesn’t exceed Tyrod, which is very possible, it makes the Browns look like they got over on you...that’s not a good look. That’s Buddy Nix territory on management of the QB position.

NFL and NBA personnel people constantly make the mistake of drafting players way too high based on physical traits without much evidence of actual elite ability to play the respective sport at consistently high level. It's really weird because if you look at what everyone is saying at the end of the college football season and what they say now, it is like people spend several months talking themselves into players way higher than they should be. It happens every year. Josh Allen reminds me of the ascent of Blaine Gabbert, where these football execs get really juiced up about these workouts and combine measurements and overlook the red flags about actual ability to be excellent playing the game.

If you watched EJ Manuel in college you knew he wasn't a great passer and it was a very close to pro system he played in. He often made wide open guys have to adjust to poorly thrown balls, and actually left a lot of plays on the field because of his inconsistent passing and inaccuracy. He could string together some plays, but he would really struggle at other times. He never really passed with any rhythm, and he was really a disappointment to many Noles fans that saw his problems frequently crop up in the biggest games. I can remember my utter disbelief when he was drafted in the first round. People I know who are FSU Grads and alumni were all calling me up and laughing their asses off at how dumb that pick was. That was a peach of a pick - Nix/Whaley combo didn't know what a good QB prospect looked like. It took Rex freaking Ryan to actually help out to get a decent guy on the roster.

To me as well. They only thing that is questionable is his height, but not a killer issue. Just depends on whether he can pass from a pro pocket without visibility issues and batted passes. Still better prospect than the other guys IMO.

The presumptuousness of people sometimes drives me crazy. If you don't understand what people are saying, maybe ask a question about what they mean rather than assume you know and that the person posting has a poorly formed opinion. You will get no argument from me about the value of QB play, but if you draft a guy that is a long shot or has a lot of issues with his game, do you really want to wait for him to develop over the course of a couple of years while your team struggles with inconsistent QB play? Or would you feel more comfortable waiting to see if you can get him with your 22nd pick and not have as much draft capital and expectations invested in him? If the top 3 QBs are gone by 12 I just think that there are a lot of good options available outside QB if you don't get a chance at Rosen, Darnold or Mayfield, and maybe you can move back down a little bit or wait until No. 22 and still get the guy you want. Counting on Jackson or Allen as a consistent starter with McCarron and Peterman as backups isn't a good plan for success, and I'm not saying that they shouldn't draft a QB at all. I think they have no other choice now that they jettisoned Tyrod and that their best chance at finding a quality starter is in the draft. I'm really just saying that I don't want them to count on Jackson or Allen like they did with EJ to be a franchise guy. I also don't think that either guy merits a No. 12 pick, because of the deficiencies in their game. We can differ on that opinion, but the point is I don't want the Bills holding on to some illusion that they shouldn't draft a better prospect if one becomes available next year or the year after just because of what round and position they draft a guy this year. Especially, if next year presents better prospects. IMO they made the same mistake this year with Tyrod that they made with Fitz, putting themselves in a must draft QB predicament without a top 5 pick. The Bills put all of their eggs into the EJ basket and then doubled down with Watkins rather than staying put and giving themselves a chance to get both a QB and a WR in that draft, which I thought they should have. I was a big proponent of them drafting another QB in the Watkins draft - those two drafts were horrendous and it was clear at the time that they were.

I like Jackson too, but if this staff seems to be more enamoured with traditional passers as I think they are, then chances are Lamar Jackson isn’t going to be the choice for them. The fact that they trotted our Peterman and benched Tyrod tells me all I need to know about this staff’s ability to assess competent QB play, especially when the biggest issues were up front on the OL preceding the change. So your OL is struggling and the defense turns into a sieve, let’s put in a 5th round draft pick that doesn’t handle pressure in the pocket well against a good pass rushing team - great solution. Watson was surprisingly good before being injured, but let’s see him over the course of a couple years before we say he is a superstar. I do like what Jackson has to offer and he is probably my 2nd choice after Mayfield. I’m not sold on Darnold and Rosen, because every time I watched them they just didn’t look like guys that would be consistent enough in the NFL, but I can’t say I watched them as much as the QBs in the ACC, SEC, BIG12 and BIG10

They are drafting a QB, but I'd rather them back off at 12 if Rosen, Mayfield and Darnold are gone, and only Allen and Jackson available. Maybe even trade out to someone more desperate, although I think the Bills hold that crown right now. Putting all of the eggs into Lamar Jackson or Allen would be just a small bit better than thinking EJ was the guy. I do like Jackson more than Allen, but I think they are both 2nd rounders at best and both are longshots to be long term great QBs.

My preference is Baker as well. If they go for Rosen (too slender IMO and has injury history), Allen (please no!!!!!!!!!!!!!), or Darnold (I just don't see him as a consistent enough passer to be a good NFL QB - he had good games in college, but had some woofers as well) after trading a lot of picks to move up into a higher position I think they are going to be looking for another QB in 2020-21.