Ayjent

If you watched EJ Manuel in college you knew he wasn't a great passer and it was a very close to pro system he played in. He often made wide open guys have to adjust to poorly thrown balls, and actually left a lot of plays on the field because of his inconsistent passing and inaccuracy. He could string together some plays, but he would really struggle at other times. He never really passed with any rhythm, and he was really a disappointment to many Noles fans that saw his problems frequently crop up in the biggest games. I can remember my utter disbelief when he was drafted in the first round. People I know who are FSU Grads and alumni were all calling me up and laughing their asses off at how dumb that pick was. That was a peach of a pick - Nix/Whaley combo didn't know what a good QB prospect looked like. It took Rex freaking Ryan to actually help out to get a decent guy on the roster.

To me as well. They only thing that is questionable is his height, but not a killer issue. Just depends on whether he can pass from a pro pocket without visibility issues and batted passes. Still better prospect than the other guys IMO.

The presumptuousness of people sometimes drives me crazy. If you don't understand what people are saying, maybe ask a question about what they mean rather than assume you know and that the person posting has a poorly formed opinion. You will get no argument from me about the value of QB play, but if you draft a guy that is a long shot or has a lot of issues with his game, do you really want to wait for him to develop over the course of a couple of years while your team struggles with inconsistent QB play? Or would you feel more comfortable waiting to see if you can get him with your 22nd pick and not have as much draft capital and expectations invested in him? If the top 3 QBs are gone by 12 I just think that there are a lot of good options available outside QB if you don't get a chance at Rosen, Darnold or Mayfield, and maybe you can move back down a little bit or wait until No. 22 and still get the guy you want. Counting on Jackson or Allen as a consistent starter with McCarron and Peterman as backups isn't a good plan for success, and I'm not saying that they shouldn't draft a QB at all. I think they have no other choice now that they jettisoned Tyrod and that their best chance at finding a quality starter is in the draft. I'm really just saying that I don't want them to count on Jackson or Allen like they did with EJ to be a franchise guy. I also don't think that either guy merits a No. 12 pick, because of the deficiencies in their game. We can differ on that opinion, but the point is I don't want the Bills holding on to some illusion that they shouldn't draft a better prospect if one becomes available next year or the year after just because of what round and position they draft a guy this year. Especially, if next year presents better prospects. IMO they made the same mistake this year with Tyrod that they made with Fitz, putting themselves in a must draft QB predicament without a top 5 pick. The Bills put all of their eggs into the EJ basket and then doubled down with Watkins rather than staying put and giving themselves a chance to get both a QB and a WR in that draft, which I thought they should have. I was a big proponent of them drafting another QB in the Watkins draft - those two drafts were horrendous and it was clear at the time that they were.

I like Jackson too, but if this staff seems to be more enamoured with traditional passers as I think they are, then chances are Lamar Jackson isn’t going to be the choice for them. The fact that they trotted our Peterman and benched Tyrod tells me all I need to know about this staff’s ability to assess competent QB play, especially when the biggest issues were up front on the OL preceding the change. So your OL is struggling and the defense turns into a sieve, let’s put in a 5th round draft pick that doesn’t handle pressure in the pocket well against a good pass rushing team - great solution. Watson was surprisingly good before being injured, but let’s see him over the course of a couple years before we say he is a superstar. I do like what Jackson has to offer and he is probably my 2nd choice after Mayfield. I’m not sold on Darnold and Rosen, because every time I watched them they just didn’t look like guys that would be consistent enough in the NFL, but I can’t say I watched them as much as the QBs in the ACC, SEC, BIG12 and BIG10

They are drafting a QB, but I'd rather them back off at 12 if Rosen, Mayfield and Darnold are gone, and only Allen and Jackson available. Maybe even trade out to someone more desperate, although I think the Bills hold that crown right now. Putting all of the eggs into Lamar Jackson or Allen would be just a small bit better than thinking EJ was the guy. I do like Jackson more than Allen, but I think they are both 2nd rounders at best and both are longshots to be long term great QBs.

My preference is Baker as well. If they go for Rosen (too slender IMO and has injury history), Allen (please no!!!!!!!!!!!!!), or Darnold (I just don't see him as a consistent enough passer to be a good NFL QB - he had good games in college, but had some woofers as well) after trading a lot of picks to move up into a higher position I think they are going to be looking for another QB in 2020-21.

I don't know about trusting Beane and McDermott - I think they got away with thinning out the talent on the team this year and since then have already traded a starting LT and QB, lost the starting C to retirement, lost their starting MLB to free agency, and are going to loose another starting CB and WR to free agency. Oh and Zay may be craZay and looking at some missed time this season. They have made some moves to get some players in to fill those positions but I don't think the guys they signed are better than the guys they lost, and they have a lot of picks (for now) in the first 3 rounds. They've put themselves in a pickle with the QB position in my opinion - and if they can get a rookie or McCarron to give them the same output as Tyrod (low turnovers, decent completion percentage, and some ability to extend drives with scrambling) I think we will all be thrilled, but the chances of that with McCarron, Peterman or a Rookie is unlikely. I understand why they wanted to move on from Tyrod and his limitations, but I think it is going to bite them in the ass to not be sure that they had a better player at QB before letting him go. They just made the playoffs, despite having a horrendous OC (who was rightfully fired) and Tyrod did what he could do with bad playcalling, a WR corps that was about as bad as the OC. Tyrod was sometimes part of the problems on Offense, but he also did a lot of things right. We will be pining for the days of Tyrod should we be stuck with McCarron and Peterman, and a struggling top prospect. Don't be enamoured with the potential of a guy that can do one thing better than Tyrod if he is a disaster in other aspects (e.g., Peterman), or a guy that couldn't unseat Andy Dalton as a starter, or a QB prospect that looks completely lost against NFL defenses and shows he doesn't have enough accuracy or anticipation in the NFL (e.g., Allen, Rudolph, Jackson), or has some pocket presence issues (e.g., Rosen, Darnold). Mayfield would be my pick at QB, but I think 12 is about where his value is - I don't think the Bills should move up any more, and the teams that would be fielding offers know the Bills are in a bit of a predicament with their QBs and that raises the ante.

And what the Chiefs gave him makes the Rams look brilliant by not resigning him. It's amazing how guys with pedigree of draft position get the benefit of the doubt, while guys who prove themselves constantly but were low picks or UDFA have to fight that stigma most of their early careers. NFL Executives get way too much credit for being extremely mediocre to bad at their jobs - its all relative to the other guys that we judge them - NFL guys are not as bad as NBA execs, but they aren't impressive. Doug Whaley is a good case in point, but the funny thing is he truly is a middle of the road NFL exec - there are much worse still employed all around the NFL. I knew that the trade for Watkins was a dumb move at the time it was made, just like I knew drafting Manuel was ludicrous in the 1st round (especially after the Bills had sat on their hands for many, many years waiting for the right time to pick a QB). Everyone who watched college ball and paid attention to the draft projections of WRs knew that Watkins' class was full of talent. It was a high rated draft for both QB and WR prospects before the draft. Watkins skill set was great for the college game because WR screens are way more effective in college and that was Sammy's bread and butter. Although he is physically gifted, he isn't particularly big to withstand constant abuse in running those types of plays and he isn't a great route runner and isn't particularly good at positioning himself and adjusting to throws (not as good as the best WRs in the game - Brown and Evans are really good at this). He wasn't asked to do these things much at Clemson and that was why I thought it was ridiculous that he was considered a top 5 pick over Evans (who I also thought was a risk because of his temper and attitude), but Evans was a better receiver in almost all aspects if you watched them both play, especially when it came to throws beyond the line of scrimmage. I didn't think Beckham would be that good, but LSU QBs were pretty bad (and Mettenberger was atrocious at times until Cameron joined the staff) - he also went into a good situation with an established QB. The Nix-Whaley team spent a ton of picks on WR and the best pick was Woods - but even a monkey throwing crap at the wall will hit the target if you throw enough crap at it - TJ Graham, Goodwin, Dez Lewis, traded pick for Mike Williams, Woods, Watkins (three picks). All that and by the time the Whaley era ends - the Bills with Beane and McDermott traded Watkins and started over spending a 2nd on Zay Jones, a 3rd and 7th on Benjamin, and traded a Darby (a starting CB) for Jordan Matthews. Jones, Benjamin and Matthews didn't play much as a unit, but the WRs weren't exactly lighting it up. We'll see if Benjamin can recover from his injury and if Jones makes a big leap from last year, but the WR position is still very questionable.

You make some good points but you have to realize that the Rams didn’t need to spend that money on Watkins given his role and what he produced for their offense. Sure he was nice for them but he wasn’t the guy that they depended on in the passing game, and that is why I brought up Woods. I fully recognize their differences (Woods and Watkins) but the contrast is more about how they help their team consistently. Sometimes stats without context are just BS regardless of how “advanced”. Watkins had a lower Rec to Target ratio, and less targets - which is probably due to more long balls for Watkins, but it also shows that his role was that of a nice big play threat, but not a primary receiver. Watkins was effective in the red zone and that isn’t a small deal, but Woods was there game in and game out and is simply more dependable. Sammy even conceded that Woods was the “Alpha” during the season last year. Sammy can have a big game or barely make a whimper and to me that is a guy that is a luxury not a must have and at $16 mil/yr that is a substantial luxury that may preclude you from paying for more dependable and useful production. I know a lot of people think Mahomes has a big arm and having Watkins, Kelce and Hill is going to open up KC’s offense, but I can’t see Reid with a first year starter at QB unleashing a deep ball attack on a consistent basis. He’s a WC offense guy that had Alex Smith not throw a TD to a WR for nearly an entire season. I honestly think that people in KC are going to sour on Reid very fast if Mahomes and the weapons he has don’t produce an instant success, even though I think those are unreal expectations. I Think Reid has Watkins eyed for a different role that is more like what he did at Clemson, but given his injury history that plan may not pan out, but it may. I think he will see more targets in that role, but he hasn’t been asked to do that in the NFL and getting crushed by safeties and LBers is a little different in the NFL. He’s been in the league long enough, it’s time to stop talking about potential and start talking about what he is and is not. He is not Antonio Brown. Maybe he isn’t getting the targets because he doesn’t earn them and smart QBs and coaches aren’t going to force targets unless they like punting and turnovers.

Dude isn't dependable enough nor does he give enough effort on 50/50 balls or balls that require some adjustment and aggression to go get. Physically talented guy - no doubt about it, but physical talent isn't all you need. Good for Watkins for getting paid - I think it is great that these guys get paid well when they do - considering how much money is out there to have in the NFL. It's only right that the ones putting themselves in harm's way get paid well, but if we are talking about a guy that you want your team to spend a good deal of its limited resources on, then Watkins isn't exactly they guy I'd be excited about. I've seen enough of him to know he isn't an elite NFL reciever - he's okay, but Robert Woods is a better all around receiver that gives way more effort and is far more reliable as a target. So the Rams saw that too and that is why Sammy is now on KC's roster.

They started Peterman and benched Tyrod in the middle of the season - let's not call the Bills' brass genius. That was a huge error in judgment - if they should have benched anyone at that time they should have started with the OL and Defense - even though Tyrod was not playing particularly well in the two games before he was benched. So the Bills have and likely still do have a high opinion of Peterman - just let that sink in - and they are the guys looking for the franchise QB. I know these guys took the team to the playoffs - but let's not get too excited about a team that was playing well above its talent level, has a roster that continues to be gutted (starting LT and QB have been traded for pick/position) and squeaked in on an improbable 4th and forever TD by a team that was playing for nothing. That Bills team last year wasn't that good and really they don't have a lot of young pieces to build around. This team is not better without Glenn and Taylor - its worse and it will be unlikely that they even sniff the playoffs this year. Sure they saved some salary and they have picks - but those things don't win games - just ask the Browns. I'm really surprised they are not trying to move Shady - they may be, but at this point the cost of his contract is probably making trade offers nearly worthless. I'm just resigned to the fact that they are most likely going to get worse QB play in 2018 than they've had the past 3 years and Shady isn't going to be able to hold up as well because of age and mileage, and let's not even get started about the TEs and WRs. Outside of Benjamin (who may have chronic knee problems) this team is not very talented at all at WR or TE.

I thought for sure that they had something other than trading up the draft board for a better lottery ticket as a plan once they traded Tyrod. This is questionable manuevering by Beane IMO - I'll let it shake out, but the solid Veteran options are just about dried up and now we've got Nate Peter...man what the hell are you doing?!!!! and Joe Webb on the roster and in a desperate situation to get another QB through a trade and/or draft.

I don't think so. That would be dumb and the Bills have far less talent at WR and TE than Washington. And that's not saying much because Washington outside of Jordan Reed isn't very talented. Gruden is a good coach for Washington's Offense though and if you look you'll notice that Cousins didn't really do much before he became coach. Cousins also still regresses to some dumb decision-making that lesser coaches may not be able to mask as much. They only franchised Cousins because they didn't have a better option available and didn't want to pay him what he thought he was worth. And Washington isn't cheap by any means. This isn't Drew Brees 2.0, this is the makings of some team thinking they are getting a franchise QB to be sorely disappointed - unless they have some really good Offensive coaching.

I know we all have a little more faith in this FO, but I’m still not convinced this was a good move unless they’ve got a really good deal in place for someone cheaper and with more upside than Tyrod. Peterman should consider himself lucky to still be on an NFL roster.

Well the Eagles just won a super bowl with a guy that no one thought would win a super bowl because of good coaching and good players around him. I get what you are saying though, and I think it’s a valid argument, but Tyrod was worth having even with losing out on some cap space and a high 3rd rounder just to maximize the options to have someone for a rookie to be groomed behind. This is is why it looks like they are probably close to working out a deal for one of the guys on the market or have traded up into a position to get a QB - it may already be all but announced.

Yep. Now They have no real starting caliber QB and we know how that works out for teams - especially the Bills. It can be a long time coming before they get a guy that has been as successful as Tyrod and I’m telling you that Foles and Cousins are the product of good coaching and systems - they aren’t transcendent talent otherwise they wouldn’t be on the market. The rookies are no guarantee. You take your medicine on paying the roster bonus because a third rounder or any draft pick for that matter is a crapshoot to be a good player.

It’s dumb to be without a starting caliber QB when you are trying to make deals. And yes Tyrod is a starting level QB, and not a bad one. Bills just lost leverage and fallback position.

You make some interesting conclusions but you didn't show your work. Could be that you made too many assumptions without knowing anything about the subject.

I believe that science is its own dogmatic religion and it is fine to question accepted scientific fact (fwiw making observations with our limited perspective is like saying you know what a billion piece puzzle looks like when all you have a piece of cardboard dust from the box), but there needs to be an open-mindedness to such questioning and equally compelling facts that aren't actually a bunch of debunked observations with no validity. The interesting part of this flat Earth stuff is that they are actually promoting some idea that very powerful people know and are intending to deceive everyone - while there is certainly some truth to the underlying sentiment that there are very powerful people that benefit from exploiting people - it totally undermines how much power the majority has if they exercise it because it creates a myth that this small power group is way stronger and persuasive than we could imagine. It's an interesting psychology, but its actually not surprising.,

Geno is not helping himself in the market - but his understanding of physics and the universe could explain his issues with accuracy. He throws like someone that has the wrong model of physics - maybe he just needs someone to show him how to throw under the proven model of physics and you get a franchise QB. West Virginia and Duke must be proud institutions to have alumni with such "diverse" perspectives on science. I actually am saddened to see guys like Kyrie and Geno believe this nonsense - but you can kind of understand where it comes from -> it's a product of many generations of unstable communities, poor education, and feeling of powerlessness against forces stacked against you.

Is it that the money can only be made if the Earth is spherical? BTW, were the Mayans and Incans who had more advanced understanding of the movements of bodies in the universe before ever making contact with the Europeans in on the global conspiracy or just simply too backwards to understand that the Earth was flat? There are no doubt real conspiracies (as in the truest sense of the word) - its actually what government does the get together and decide things and who benefits from the rules and laws. However, there is no need for elaborate conspiracies about our place in the universe and physics that would have had to be kept in secrecy for over 600 years - its just not worth the effort and not worth enough money to any one. BTW, it's really a good demonstration that you believe that you are pretty powerless and that there are forces with immense power that control things. That's why there is such a rise in these crazy conspiracy theories - the feeling of relative powerlessness in our economic and political systems.

I'm not one to tell people how to act, but I'll just say that I'm glad me and my Pops never showed affection like that ON THE FIRST KISS, much less the second.

Whoa at that kiss! Yikes! The first kiss is bad enough for a father and son, but the second one is really weird considering he has no shirt on while getting a massage.

Of course he and his agent are interested into talking to everyone, doesn't that increase the likelihood of getting a better deal.

Are you kidding me? If it weren't for him being a drunk that sometimes goes AWOL he'd be one of the most coveted Front Office people in the NFL. He is responsible for building the Seahawks into a juggernaut (Russell Wilson, Kam Chancellor, Richard Sherman, etc.) and turning the Redskins from a team with bloated veteran FA contracts into a younger more talented team. Like all guys that are GMs he didn't always knock it out of the park in the draft, but he is talented at putting together a roster that wins.