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Were they? That's pretty miserable, then. After their first two drives in the 3rd quarter I had to turn it off. Went to the mall instead, which is usually pretty slow on a football Sunday afternoon, but it seems many fans had the same idea because it was pretty packed and there were people in Bills gear everywhere haha. I applaud McD for having the nads to make the switch. I've liked Tyrod since he became the starter but I know he's hit his ceiling. He can make some "wow" plays happen a few times a game, his escapability is second to none but they can't rely on him to do that every play. They know they need him to be able to stay in the pocket and make quick decisions and quick throws. Unfortunately his height is a main factor in his issues. He simply can't see the field well and unlike Brees and Wilson, he's hesitant to zip the ball through tight windows, which is how those guys have been so successful. They must have really been seeing some good things in practice from him. In the camp practices I watched and the pre-season games, it's looked to me like Peterman has a bit of a quicker release and it seems like he throws with more anticipation. If you watch them run drills where they're practicing dropbacks simultaneously you'll see Peterman is usually first to get rid of the ball. Not by a ton, but it's noticeable. Maybe they've seen him throw guys open in practice and that's something Tyrod just doesn't do often enough. He has to see his man open before throwing it. And week after week I watch clips of the coaches film and there are always several plays where he does have receivers open in a tight window where he'd have to drop the ball over the CB but in front of the safety. He's done it before, so he's capable, he just doesn't do it consistently enough. Either way, I'm intrigued. They better double team Bosa or it's gonna be a really crappy debut for Peterman.

I don't think the team gave up on Tyrod, they voted him captain, they know what type of player and leader he is... like I said above, I think this is more to do with Peterman's ability to make quicker decisions and excel in the short passing game.

Not fibs. Wow. I'm surprised. Didn't think McD would be the kind of coach to make that type of change while they're still in the playoff race. I can't imagine they'd make this decision based on his garbage time performance last week. That was against a soft defense, mainly backups, most QBs will look good against that. He must be making strides in practice. I also think they feel like he can execute the short passing game better to neutralize the rush.

....fibs?

All these things said are pretty stock answers in situations like this. Of course McD isn't going to make a switch to Peterman. Taylor still gives them the best chance to win, he and everyone else on the teams knows that. And yeah, the vets on this team believe in Taylor, otherwise they wouldn't have voted him captain. The BS with Tolbert yesterday was because they though they'd be fine going into the game with only two backs. McCoy is not close to 100% right now. I mean, at this point in the season no players that play regularly are near 100% but he may be further away from 100% than most think. He's dealt with a wrist injury all year, he tweaked his groin a few weeks ago and yesterday after that one long run he sat out a few plays. It wasn't said why he was out but obviously some kind of ailment came up and he had to sit out for a bit. As of right now my biggest gripe with this coaching staff is their lack of contingency plans. Now, I'm not advocating that Dareus was playing great this season nor am I saying he was worth the contract he had and I'm also well aware of the amount of playing time he had. But, when he was in there it would force the OL to usually put two blockers on him, which frees up other players to make a play. They traded Dareus for a 6th without having a DL that could occupy space and blockers like he can. By today's standards they have a slightly undersized DL and it's shown in the last two weeks as these guys are just getting pushed around like no big deal. And then they go into yesterday's game with just McCoy and Tolbert. That's really short-sighted on their part considering how heavy of a workload they wanna put on McCoy. He can't do it all and they need someone a little more dynamic than Tolbert to fill in for McCoy when he needs a breather. The OL cohesion has eroded due to Glenn's injuries, Dawkins' inexperience, Incognito's not healthy, Miller isn't suited for the scheme, Ducasse apparently IS but just isn't a very good player. And Mills is Mills. Couple that with a new scheme and there's going to be problems. They talked about how they gathered after the first few games and Dennison took feedback from the offense about things from the last couple of seasons that worked well. More power/pull blocking schemes and we saw how that helped the run game. Now, I don't know if Dennison is still mixing things from last season or if he's tried to steer things entirely in his direction with his system. Besides all of that, let's be real. Most people assumed this team would be what we saw yesterday for the entire season. They'd gimp through the season with what they got and then reshape the roster even more in the off-season. So, the early wins were a nice surprise and even though we had the feeling of things being different, the reality was this team still has a lot of weak spots, has to follow a very specific formula and have a few bounces go their way in order to win games. And with the way Frazier and Dennison kept talking about getting back to what they do best, that leads me to believe that they've tried to mix it up and try some different things but it hasn't worked. I understand that as the season goes on you can't keep showing the same things on tape game after game. So maybe they need to be a little more clever in what they wanna do, keeping it the same but making it look different, maybe.

It's a combination of the scheme, the playcalling and lack of execution. Earlier in the season they were trying to fully work with Dennison's scheme and the run game went nowhere. After a few games, they sat down with the offense and went over things that have been effective for them over the past few seasons. They implemented some of those things and that was when the run game picked back up and they were at least efficient. Now they just look completely lost. I don't know if Dennison has started to install/use more of his scheme and has gotten away from the mix of plays/schemes they were using from the last couple seasons or what but it's been rough to watch over these last two games. Not having the OL at 100% has hurt. Glenn has been in and out. Dawkins shows flashes but as a rookie he's going to be inconsistent. Richie isn't anywhere near 100%, I believe his ankle is limiting him and thus limiting his ability to pull and be a lead blocker. Wood seems to have stretches where he's consistent and does his job and then has lapses where he's getting walked back into the pocket or defenders are passing right by him. Miller was much improved in 2016 but this year, he's clearly not a fit for what they wanna do and Ducasse, while he is a better fit in terms of size and playing style, he's just not that good. Mills is Mills... he's actually had some decent games this year but as always he struggles with speed and defenders who have an extensive bag of pass rushing moves. And Taylor... well, he can do some things no other QBs (aside from Cam and Wilson) can do. He's capable of some "wow" plays a few times a game but aside from that, he simply cannot see over the line and has trouble finding the windows and lanes his height forces him to throw through. He is also not a consistent anticipatory thrower. He needs to see his guy open before he fires it. And when looking at the film, there are at least a handful of times per game where he's missed open receivers. They may not be "wide" open but they are open enough where the QB needs to get rid of the ball and give his receivers a chance to make a play. On top of that, this team is definitely missing the deep threat that Watkins provided. I'm not saying they're missing Watkins specifically, but they don't have any receivers that can get behind the defense. So no opponent has to bother dropping a safety deep. They can keep everything close to the line and bottle up the run, force Taylor to stay inside the pocket and dictate the game because they don't have to fear getting beat over the top. And for the love of Pete, I'm sure Mike Tolbert is a great dude, I know he's on this team because he's familiar with McDermott and because his attitude and team-first mentality is what they're looking for in their players. But the guy is just not a good #2 option behind McCoy. He isn't dynamic in any way, he's limited to runs only between the tackles and he should really never be used on swing screens because he just doesn't have the speed to get to the corner. We knew they wanted to rely on McCoy as much as possible but the guy isn't invincible and honestly they just need a better option to spell him than Tolbert. So that's just the players. When it comes to Dennison, yeah I think it's fair to wonder how effective he can be as a playcaller when he's spent most of his career as an OC that didn't always call the plays. A 4th and 1 shovel pass to the fullback? Targeting Benjamin only three times, all on the first drive and then not even bothering to call his number again until garbage time? That's inexcusable. I know the dude hasn't been here long but this is football and he's a professional. At this point, they need to let him rely on his size and athleticism to make plays as opposed to waiting for him and Taylor to develop chemistry and timing. I said this in another thread and I'll repeat it here. There isn't enough creativity on either side of the ball right now. It's not a bad idea to run straightforward schemes that allow your players to line up and play fast. And I'm not saying they need to complicate things, but they need to try throwing caution to the wind a little bit and finding more creative ways to get their guys in position to make plays, simple as that.

Hmm... did you read it? Nowhere did I say he was irreplaceable... and nowhere did I compare him to Sammy Watkins, nor did I call him a decoy. I said, during this season, when he was in there, the OL is forced to adjust and most times put two blockers on him. This allows other players to get free and have a chance to make a play. Occupying space and blockers isn't a flashy job and that's why you didn't see him do anything flashy this year. But, I do believe he played a role in being better against the run when he was in there. And now they don't have a player on this roster that can do that. And after that I just said that it would've been nice if they had a better backup plan for replacing him, because they don't have any real big-bodied DL anymore. 95 is 6' 301, 94 is 6'1" 300, 92 is 6'4" 295, and 91 is also 6'4" 295. By today's standards, those are kind of light for DL. And then on the ends your main guys are Hughes and Lawson, both around 6'2" - 6'3" and 255-260. Compare that to the DL McDermott had in Carolina. Kawann Short, 6'3" 315. Vernon Butler, 6'4" 330. Star Lotulelei, 6'2" 315. His ends were Peppers (6'7" 295) and Charles Johnson (6'2" 278). All marginally bigger than the guys they have right now. So, like I said, they probably need to get a little more creative with the scheme right now because what they've been doing the last few games hasn't been working. The entire DL has been completely handled by the Jets and Saints OLs these last two weeks and so far they either haven't figured out how to adjust, or have adjusted and that isn't working either. The lack of pressure has shown through the last five or six games. And it's not really the scheme, because while McDermott was in Carolina, they finished near the top of the league in sacks almost every year, including leading the league with 60 in 2013. This team currently has 14 sacks through nine games. That puts them on pace to finish with 26-28 on the season, only a few better than the 21 they put up with Rex in 2015. So either, this scheme just isn't productive for this particular group of players or... (and this is what I think the case is) this group just isn't as good as we'd thought. And it's all well and good to have a team full of hard working players who wanna win and put the team first, but sometimes they're gonna have to take a chance on and deal with a player who may not completely have that same mentality but has talent. Can't be all boy scouts. You need a little nasty to win in this league.

Some of these comments suck. I'm gonna come to some of your jobs and just stand there and criticize. "Herman! You suck at filing! You're an overpaid waste of space. I'm gonna suspend you. I can't believe this company actually pays you. And you, Larry, you self-centered sack of monkey dung. You think we don't know that you're a fat piece of crap? You think you're a world class plumber? You ain't worth the crap lodged in those pipes." Ugh. I guess it's just me, I just hate insulting comments towards people you don't even frickin' know. While Dareus wasn't doing anything flashy this season, on plays he was in the game, it forced the OL to pay attention to him and dedicate two blockers to him almost every time. That frees up other players to make plays. And nobody complained back when he was given the contract extension. He had just come off his most productive seasons in '13 and '14 and he was a player just about everyone was positive they needed to lock up. If he had left in free agency, people would've lost they dang minds screaming how the Bills just let another one of their top players walk away for nothing. It's all hindsight now. Rex put the dude in a scheme that didn't fit him (like every other player on that defense), he has two weak seasons and then apparently couldn't buy into what McD wants to do here. And yeah, the contract looked bad after '15 and '16 because he wasn't in a position to be as productive as he once was. And he wasn't playing a whole lot this season but in the couple games where he played the most snaps (where they showcased him) he wasn't bad. He was certainly a help in the run game. And now they really don't have any DL that can hold the point of attack and they certainly aren't getting any pressure on the QB with whatever four guys happen to be in at the time. So this off-season they'll be scrambling to find guys that can do what needs to be done within this system. Either that or the defensive staff (and offensive staff, for that matter) need to take a long, hard look at what they have and start scheming around what these players naturally do well. Right now, IMO, there just isn't enough creativity on either side of the ball. I get that it's good to have a straightforward scheme so your players can line up and play fast but when that stuff stops working, you gotta get creative. Can't just "stay the course" and keep beating your head against the wall. And I'm not advocating they should've kept Dareus, not at that salary and not if his job was going to be mainly run stops on 40% of the defensive snaps in any given game. But it would've been nice had they had a stronger contingency plan in place before shipping him out.

Wow, you're just a beacon of optimism and positivity. Save the "realist" argument because all you're doing here is projecting.

Yeah I'm with ya on changing the channel. I usually stick it out but they just never adjusted and every drive looked so ugly. Each time they got the ball back I was like, ok here we go, time for them to pull their heads outta they a$$es and... 3 yard loss... ok, ok, let's rebound.... sack, loss of 10... son of a.... incomplete pass, punt. That's it, I'm watching Bob's Burgers and passing out. Pain tolerance is a funny thing. Obviously everyone is different. Some people can really get through things others would be keeling over about. With players tho, there are other factors involved. You mentioned Humber so let's talk about him. His entire career he's been a special teams player, been told he's just not quite good enough to play LB regularly. Finally, he gets his chance to start at LB this season. It's likely he's going to try to do everything he possibly can to stay on the field. He doesn't wanna lose his spot after he's been waiting nine years for the opportunity. Lot of other players do the same thing. And in my humble opinion, I really would consider getting Milano on the field some more. He brings some speed and athleticism to the LB position that they don't have with guys like Humber, Brown and Alexander. With Sammy, he had the same injury as Dez and Julio and both those guys got shut down for a season and were given ample time to fully rehab and come back 100%. With Sammy, I think he wanted to prove he could play through it and I also think the medical staff told him and the coaches that they could come up with a treatment plan that would keep him on the field. These days there's so much talk about player health and safety but when it comes right down to it, teams want their guys to play at all costs, especially if they're an important player. And Sammy himself probably felt like he had a lot to prove after calling out the team to give him 10 targets a game. He definitely wanted to be a huge part of turning this team around, things just never worked out in his favor. And then as you mentioned, you get other players who seem to have random injuries pop up all the time and keep them out of games and those guys end up having their dedication questioned. Are they playing to win or do they just play because they know they're gonna make a ton of money? We all remember Torrell Troup, right? Everyone considers him a bust and yeah, that's fair to say given his production vs. his draft slot. But what a lot of people don't know is coming out of the draft, he had a pretty serious back injury. It required surgery. But instead of getting the surgery done and miss his rookie year, the medical team convinced him to play through it and that they'd get him through the season with a specialized treatment plan. He tried to give it a go but he was never at 100% in any game he played. He had surgery the following off-season but by then the damage was done and he was never able to live up to any potential he may have had. That's just one example but it happens all across the league to players all the time and it's a bummer.

As for your question about a hometown affect, it plays a role for some players. Take Lynch for example, he always wanted to play for the Raiders, his hometown team. A lot of teams tend to spend late round draft picks or sign undrafted players from colleges near the team. That's usually just a convenience thing as the team scouts have an easier time keeping tabs on players close by. But for the most part it either comes down to money, like teef said, or opportunity. A player is going to play where he's gonna get paid (if he's an established starter) or where he feels he's going to get a real opportunity to play. Like Taylor, for example. Denver wanted him to sign there in 2015 and backup Manning with the chance to maybe compete for the starting role once Manning retired. They offered more money than Buffalo but Buffalo said, if you sign here you're instantly in the mix to be the starter. He wanted to play and compete so he signed here for less money. And since then he's redone his deal to remain the starter here even though it meant his contract was going to be a little smaller. We can say what we want about Taylor as a player but as far as being a competitor and a team-first guy, he's a Grade A example of those things.

Yeah, Mack is from Florida. The reason he ended up at UB is because he didn't start playing football until he was in 10th grade, I believe. UB and one other school were the only ones to offer scholarships. He chose UB and for all intents and purposes, he loved his time here. For some odd reason, when the Raiders came here a few weeks ago, he was suddenly and strangely refusing to speak a word about Buffalo or to speak with any of the Buffalo media.

The Colts are partially responsible for what's happened to Luck up to this point. It's believed that he tore his labrum during week three back in 2015. Surgery was an option at that point, he would've been shut down for the rest of 2015 but ready to go by 2016. Instead, they chose to have him play through it and receive intensive medical treatment during the week. He only made it until week nine and had one of the worst seasons of his career statistically. He was able to make it through 2016 but the team went 8-8, he was sacked 41 times and inevitably aggravated his shoulder. Irsay talked him up all off-season that he'd have a chance to play but they knew all along that the chances of him seeing the field in 2017 were slim and none. So instead of shutting him down in 2015 and taking care of it then, they've drug it out across three seasons and the kid has been robbed of some prime years for athletes as he was 26, 27 and 28 through those seasons. And now there are rumors going around that there's a lot of tension between Irsay and Luck and that he could even demand a trade at some point. And I wouldn't blame him. The Colts have bumbled his career for the last few years. They've done nothing to build a solid OL in front of him, which he needs as a classic pocket passer. Yeah, he has scrambling ability but he's not the kind of QB you want leaving the pocket on a regular basis. You want him to hang back there and pick teams apart. And I'm not saying every player in the league is a boy scout. Clearly, there are some bad apples in every bunch but for the most part, I look at players as a bunch of regular dudes who make their living in a really interesting and lucrative way. When we watch games, we are watching these guys at work. I wouldn't go to Target and scream at the employees if I felt like they weren't working to their full potential. It's one thing to be emotionally invested in the games, which I am, I'm always on the edge of my seat and I cheer when things go well and give long exasperated sighs when things don't go so well. Or, I just flip the channel like last week when I just couldn't take the futility anymore during the Jets game. I dunno. Maybe it's just me, but overall in general I'm not a big fan of being a turd to other human beings unless it's absolutely warranted.

I thought he was their #1 corner? What happened?

Some of these comments are insane. I hate the way some fans dehumanize these players and act like they should be out there even if their arms are falling off. They're friggin' human beings. They aren't superheroes. Yeah, they get paid a lot of money but getting a fat salary doesn't justify playing while far less than 100%. You're more of a detriment than an asset if you're out there playing hurt because you're not going to be as effective. It's like some people just have no problem speaking so ill of these guys and they always wanna justify by pointing out how much money they make. Or if they aren't performing as well as they can, the name-calling and calls to be cut and kicked out of the league, it's just like, blech. Is that fandom? I don't see it that way. At the end of the day, these guys are all just a bunch of human beings with a really interesting job. They aren't invincible. I dunno, maybe that's just me but I'm not in the habit of degrading any player for any football-related reason.

He certainly sounds like he wants to be here and be a part of this team and culture. He also comes across as exactly the type of player they want on the roster. He's a team guy, he's here to do his part and he's a good teammate. And I don't think he'll have a real high price tag. Plus he's just turned 25 over the summer, KB is 26 and Jones is 22. That's a solid group with two guys in prime years for athletes and another guy who would benefit greatly from having those two guys to work with.

I don't think the effort on Thursday was a result of them quitting on their coach. It was the result of their usual preparation and game-planning being cut short as well as their time spent rehabbing injuries. No player is physically at 100% at this stage in the year. Every player is dealing with some kind of pain/injury and they truly do need those treatment sessions during the week to get their bodies right for games. From the first snap it just looked like the entire team was tired and sluggish. It was also the first Thursday night game for McD as a head coach so there were probably some bumps in the road in regards to the process he wanted to use for the short week. They were out of sync, made mistakes they don't normally make and overall just looked like a very worn down team.

It's not Buffalo's fault the teams they beat have underachieved this season. Atlanta can't adjust to their new offensive scheme. Oakland seems like a bipolar team, one week they beat KC on a last second touchdown, the next week they get stomped by the Bills. Tampa Bay was a trendy pick to be a contender but I never really bought into them. I think Winston has some talent but I think he's been overhyped at this point and people banked on their skill players on offense to be big time contributors but so far they've fallen flat. The Jets are better than expected but I still think they were very much a "this is a team they should beat" kind of team. Panthers were hyped up to be a let-down this season yet they're right in the thick of things. The Bengals were looked at as a contender but they're also underachieving. It's been kind of an odd season so far. It seems like there's more parity than usual. I sincerely hope last Thursday was a fluke and was just the result of a tired team who didn't have the time to prepare like they normally do. They're getting healthier each week. Clay is close to returning and the addition of Benjamin is huge. That type of move isn't made if this team and its staff doesn't believe they can make a real push this season. Hopefully that acquisition has given them a jolt and hopefully they're PO'ed about the loss and come out firing on all cylinders. I do think this team is too well-coached and well-prepared to have a full-on meltdown like we've seen in past seasons. I do think their mentality is different than past teams. However the season turns out, I'm pretty confident that they have this thing on the right track. McD and Beane are 100% on the same page for how they want this team built. McDermott has very clear expectations for his players and overall it just feels like they have a very good plan going forward.

The Thursday night loss was not indicative of who this team has been for most of the season. From the get-go the entire team just looked tired. It throws off their entire schedule, it throws off how they practice, they have question marks on who can/should practice, every player at this point in the season is hurting in some form and they weren't able to rest/rehab as they normally would. This isn't an excuse but an explanation. And then throw in the travel on top of that and the fact that it was on the national stage right as a lot of people started buying in and calling them a playoff team, it makes the loss sting that much more. The minute people are saying, "This Bills team is for real" is the minute they have their worst game of the season. They were just sluggish and got out-played. With 10 days to rest and prepare they'll hopefully get back into form and play a better game against the Saints. The hope is that they can go 5-3 on both halves of the season to finish at 10-6. Unless the injury bug comes through and decimates the roster, I don't think we should expect the "same ol' Bills" implosion and see them go 2-6 over these next eight games. They're under much better leadership than previous seasons and I think the team just has too much heart to let the Jets loss get in their heads and revert them back to a mindset of "Oh man, here we go again, let's just mail it in and hope we escape each game healthy." McDermott has higher expectations than that and I think his players wanna do all they can to live up to his expectations as well as their own.

Unless he catches fire like he did during the second half of the 2015 season, he's probably going to be a tad disappointed once he sees the offers he gets in free agency. I'm sure he believes he's worth a big money contract but, like I said, unless he lights it up over these final eight games, he may end up signing a one-year "prove it" deal somewhere. I believe the primary reason in trading him stemmed from the belief that he would likely not re-sign here after not having his 5th year option picked up so they pulled off the trade in order to get something for him rather than watching him walk next March. I know he recently said he didn't have his head in the right place while he was here, he admitted to being bummed about his numbers even in games they won. Despite that, he said some good things during his time here and it felt like he was emerging as a leader. He wasn't afraid to speak up and he said at one point if guys weren't buying in they needed to go. And I can't blame him for speaking up about his lack of targets. I mean, who uses a player like that as a decoy? Not sure what's keeping him from being more involved in LA but the dude is still young and could very well realize all that potential.

I'd expect them to be much better prepared than they were vs. the Jets. And hopefully they'll be a little PO'ed. This is a team founded on details and preparation now and I think the short weeks are a huge disadvantage for them. That said, it's going to be a tough game. But, at least McD is familiar with NO having gone against them twice a year since 2011. The weather could play a factor. I'd assume their game plan would be their usual MO - establish the run and execute long drives to keep Brees off the field as much as possible.

Go away OP

DL, OG, LB, RB

It's not a massive deal that they lost, but the kicker is where and when they lost. The moment everyone starts buying in and really believing that this is a playoff team is the moment they come out on the national stage and have their worst game. It happens to every team every season but to have it happen under these circumstances is maybe why it stings a little more than usual. Jets were fired up, give 'em credit. Bills looked tired and out of it from the start. They didn't communicate well, they made mistakes they don't normally make and they couldn't find a way to adjust. They got 10 days to pull it back together. I don't think it's coming undone because of how this team is coached now. I think they're gonna be pretty PO'ed by this one and really put in the work to be at their best for the Saints. This is a different roster than years past. There are still a handful of guys here who have gone through the implosions in years past but I'm hoping that "Oh man here we go again" train of thought isn't going to seep into their minds. They gotta rebound, plain and simple.

The Thursday night games are a crapfest for the most part. I didn't feel great about this game at all, then again I felt the same about the Raiders game and look what happened there. They just looked tired from the get-go. Then McCoy got dinged up and couldn't really play the way he wanted. And I understand why they have Mike Tolbert on the team, but I think they really need to reevaluate that and think about bringing someone else in or allowing Banyard or even Jones to take some snaps because these 1 yard dives by Tolbert aren't doing much.