GunnerBill

They are the only team I have heard any real whispers about in the 1st. I had him to the Giants early 2nd in my two round mock back in Feb. I can still see that.

If the NFL has invited Milroe to the draft they think he has a very good chance to go in the 1st. I had heard earlier in the process Tomlin really liked him. It would be very rich for my blood but who knows?

I honestly don't think it is strategy primarily that is wrong. I think it is talent evaluation. I just don't think the Bills are great at spotting who is a really good players vs who is a special player.

I voted early before he was on the poll.... he got added after. I was asleep the entire time he was on it and it was live. By the time I was awake the choice was made.

Yea I like him. I have a third on him too, and a high third at that. I took him for the Bears in our TSW mock v1. He is my kind of tackle - athletic, mobile, good footwork - and it certainly doesn't hurt that he has elite length. Functional strength and anchor are the two slight question marks, as obviously is competition level.

Franklin is the only one of those I have seen any of - mainly while watching his running mate - he has some ability as a Z that is gonna be used in the middle of the field. I thought he was probably a late day 3 / priority UDFA guy based ob that limited exposure. Where do you have him?

If they like Shedeur they should take him. 100%. If they just think he is okay they are not in force a QB mode. Not when the next two years is a tear down situation.

I voted for the trade down!

I did have a 4th on him and you said you thought he was going higher but I didn't fight you on it, I said I could see it.

But that isn't what I am doing with the Saints. I am saying they should improve their odds by basically punting on 2025. I think the Browns should take a QB. I think the Giants should take a QB. I think the Raiders should (although they won't) and I think the Steelers should. I just think the Saints are in a different position. Like I say, I actually think the Saints will, and I wouldn't criticise them for doing so. But they are the one QB needy team in this class that if I was the GM of I'd wait.

I think Ingram-Dawkins has some talent too. I just don't know how you refine it to get the best out of it in the NFL or where he best fits scheme wise. He is worth a day 3 pick somewhere. I haven't watched Badger. He was on my long list to get to but I haven't and I doubt I will now.

On first point I was clearly being facetious about the Fitz point. I was using the rhetorical device of mimicking your phraseology back to you. Because I never said "I know more than Ryan Fitzpatrick" either. On the second point - fine - I am no pyschologist so you and Chat GPT got me there. But your "thought experiment" was clearly an attempt to undermine what was a perfectly sensible and rational point. Call that what you may. It was foolish.

Completely agree. But one of them was EJ Manuel. I am not saying Shedeur is EJ but I do think he would be similar in the sense that it would be a forced QB pick.

I did read your post. And I did also say that the Chiefs had the playcall designed to beat the Bills play call. But if you think Spencer Brown losing that rep was a bigger fault than the blown protection call I don't know what to tell you. And a hypotehtical thought experiement can be a red herring fallacy when it is irrelevant to the topic at hand. It was totally irrelvant to Steve's point as to whether he would take your hypothetical deal.

It’s now less than two weeks until the Titans go on the clock in Green Bay and I think through the discussion, debate and the @Virgil mock drafts people are pretty familiar with the sorts of names that they could hear in the first couple of days of the NFL Draft. But it’s time to think about some of the less familiar names. Last year among the sleepers I highlighted were: Roger Rosengarten who ended up sneaking into the end of round 2 with the Ravens. He made his first start at right tackle week 4 against the Bills and made that spot his own, ending the season named to the All-Rookie Team; Jalyx Hunt out of Houston Christian University in the FCS who was selected 94th overall by the Eagles appearing in 16 games as a rookie for the Superbowl Champions; and Darius Muasau who went in round 6 to the Giants and made 7 starts at linebacker during his rookie campaign. Here are the guys I’ve identified this year who I think deserve more buzz than they have been getting: DJ Giddens, Running Back, Kansas State 3rd round grade I’m not sure Giddens really counts as a sleeper but I’m adding him to my list because I am higher on him than anyone else I’ve seen. He is my RB5 in this class ahead of some of the bigger name guys in this group. He is my type of running back, he has elite vision and the ability to take it to the house every time he touches the ball. If he goes to an offense that just sees a 6ft, 212lbs running back and tries to bash him into the pile 10 times a game that isn’t going to work. But if you allow him to create, play with patience and find the holes I see some James Cook like traits in his game. Collin Oliver, Linebacker, Oklahoma State 4th round grade Oliver is just a productive football player. The question on him is what is his fit in the NFL. He has played both off the ball linebacker and pass rushing edge for Oklahoma State and my guess is his NFL projection requires a coach who is willing to use him in something of a hybrid role – either as a WILL linebacker who is used as a frequent blitzer in a 4-3 or as a JACK linebacker in a 3-4 who can drop into coverage or blitz depending on the situation. He might go later than I have him graded because of the scheme fit questions but I think given a chance he will make plays on Sundays. Mac McWilliams, Cornerback, UCF 4th/5th round borderline grade McWilliams has the exact profile I like for nickel corners in the NFL. He has experience of playing man coverage outside in college, shows really good anticipation and swift, decisive movement skills in transition. I’d want to see him improve his tackling technique as he has a tendency to get too square and stop his feet but he can hit when he makes contact and is always raking at the ball. Has some special teams experience too which means he is likely to come off the board in the first half of day 3. Chase Lundt, Offensive Tackle, Connecticut 4th/5th round borderline grade Lundt reminds me a bit of Rosengarten from last year in that he is a very experienced college tackle but with question marks about his overall athletic profile. Lundt doesn’t quite have the arm length that Rosengarten did, has played only on the right side and against lesser competition but his tape is really fun. He has good bend for someone his size (he is 6’7) and he is particularly good as a run blocker in a zone scheme. Wouldn’t shock me if a Shanahan style offense took him earlier than round 5 and had success with him as their right tackle or kicked inside to guard. Andrew Armstrong, Wide Receiver, Arkansas 5th round grade In a class lacking a ton of true X receivers I think Armstrong has flown a little under the radar. I actually turned the Arkansas tape on to watch his teammate Isaac TeSlaa who has started to generate some late buzz but it was Armstrong that took my eye. 6’3, two-thousand-yard seasons, second team All SEC in 2024, he is big, physical, fast enough (ran 4.51 in the 40) and dominant at the catch point. The knocks are a bit of route running nuance that would help him separate more consistently and he is an older prospect and will turn 25 in October of his rookie season. But even if he is just a one contract player he is definitely worth a day three pick. Jalin Conyers, Tight End, Texas Tech 6th round grade Conyers is a bit of an enigma in that when you look at this athletic profile what you think you should be seeing on tape is a flex tight end who is a receiver first and a blocker second. What you actually see is a guy who isn’t as dynamic as you’d like in space and doesn’t run great routes but demonstrates a willingness and aptitude to run block. With his physical gifts you feel there is still untapped potential as a receiving weapon and if he can develop that facet of his game and continue to offer something as a blocker when facing bigger opposition at the next level he has considerable upside. Ahmed Hassanein, Edge Rusher, Boise State 6th round grade I really, really wanted to grade this guy higher so that he was properly on my board rather than an indicative 6th round grade (and not just because he is handsome….). Came to football late and is the first ever Egyptian born guy to play in the FBS. I think coaches will love him as a non-stop motor who brings it on every single snap and he was productive in college, with 22 sacks over the past two years for Boise. It’s the play recognition and the technical refinement required that stops me having him higher but as a rotational defensive end who will contribute on special teams early I think he is worth a day 3 shot. Jacory Croskey-Merritt, Running Back, Arizona 6th round grade The MVP of the Shrine Game back in January after a lost season due to an eligibility issue. He is primarily a zone scheme runner, who makes decisive cuts and has the ability to move laterally and vertically at speed. He runs a little bit upright which not every NFL evaluator will forgive and he hasn’t demonstrated a ton of pass game value but as a change of pace runner in an offense that utilises multiple backs he can outperform his draft stock. Tonka Hemingway, Defensive Tackle, South Carolina 7th round / Priority UDFA grade Another guy who really made his way onto my radar at the Shrine Game, Hemingway is a versatile defensive lineman who can provide depth and versatility to a team in the NFL which could help him stick as an 8th or 9th DL guy on some rosters. He has a really explosive first step get off, but his technique thereafter could still stand some refinement. His non-stop motor will see him drafted late I suspect. Encourage others to add theirs here too, always a fun thread to look back on in a year or two!

No. I still believe if you don't have a QB your biggest need is QB. But I don't know if I think the right strategy for the Saints to get one is to draft one at #9 in this class. I will criticise the Browns and the Giants if they pass and Shedeur or Jaxon Dart end up being good. I will give the Saints more of a pass. Where they are honestly I would advocate tanking. And that is not something I am generally a fan of. But I think they need a full reset.

Bottom out to get a Quarterback prospect who deserves top 10 consideration not one who is getting one because the class is pretty weak.

I think the lowest Milroe goes is the first 10 picks of day 2. Tennessee - will take Ward 1 Cleveland - will either go QB at #2 or #33 Giants - doubt they go QB at #3 but it's in play at #34 Vegas - doubt they go QB at #6 but it is possible at #37 Saints - think they could very well go QB at #9 and if not it's in play at #40 Pittsburgh - increasingly feels like QB at #21 (they have no second round pick) Six teams. Four guys. If three go in the first 21 picks then I expect those three early day 2 teams to be trying to move up.

I think the roster is not just bad and old but so structurally unsound I think it needs two years to even get to the point where the future can look positive even if Shedeur is decent. If I am the Browns or the Giants I'd draft Sanders. If I am the Saints I'd take the chance to tear things down and bottom out. Ironically I think the Saints might be the most likely of the three to draft him.

I would do Barron for a) if it was just me. But if I am putting myself in the position of the Bills.... I just don't see it. He does not meet their phsycial specifications.

They kicked the can originally because the division was so weak. They felt two years ago like they could win the division and make the playoffs with a lower end starter like Carr. And the first year it should have worked they blew it at the end. Last year everyone got hurt and they were just bad. In the meantime it turned out the Mayfield Buccs were better than expected and now Carolina and Atlanta have their young QBs. It's time to take the medicine if you are the Saints. I wouldn't draft Shedeur as the Saints unless I honestly had a really high grade on him. If I though, as I actually do, he is just fine as a prospect but lacks special I'd begin the teardown and rebuild process.

Yea finding a deal that makes sense is the tricky thing for him. He is exceptionally talented though. I think I'd offer my first 4th and maybe a 3rd next year which on the meeting of conditions can be a 2nd? Something like that would be my offer.

You talk about red herring fallacy and then post this?!? Of course nobody would take that deal. But that is a red herring because that deal doesn't exist. Objectively @stevewin's comment is 100% accurate. In that same conversation you were pretending Ryan Fitzpatrick knew more about the play than Josh Allen. We don't need to debate whether Josh made an incorrect protection call. We know he did. He told us he did. It isn't a subject open for debate.

Yea and while that isn't all on him, when you have an elite QB the whole point is they are supposed to come through in those situations. I didn't actually know those numbers before, but they are startling.

a) basically nobody. I'd only make a jump like that for a player in a different tier quality wise so unless Hunter or Carter gets there, which there is no chance of I'm out. b) I'd do it for Matthew Golden and if the off field on either of them checked out I'd do it for Mike Green and James Pearce. They are the three guys to my mind that offer something at a premium position that I am not going to get later. They might not be overall different tier of talents but they have a critical element that I am not gonna be able to find easily later. Golden it's the combination of speed and route running, Green it's the quick translation of speed to power in his rush and Pearce it's the explosive get off.