GunnerBill

Yea I think he will too but I do think it will be a trade back in rather than the Steelers. I used to do trades in my final version mock but I found it completely threw off so much it those trades didn't happen in reality it made grading your mock year to year really tough so I stopped. I think it might be the Giants trading back in. There is lots of talk that Mara is pushing Schoen to do it. He made the Daniel Jones decisions so it wouldn't shock me.

It's Pete Guelli who runs the organisation day to day. I suppose he is kind of the new Russ Brandon. He was here for a bit in the 00s in a more junior role from memory then has been away with the Charlotte Hornets and the New York Giants working his way up the ladder. Think he runs the Sabres too now?

Yes. Hariston and Amos are right there together for me. I have Amos a smidge ahead. Honestly I think his tape is a bit more consistent. That maturity that he has as a slightly older guy shows up both physically and mentally. He makes fewer mental errors. Hariston has some things you still want him to clean up in terms of his eye discipline, his processing speed and you want want him to get a little bit thicker to hold up against the bigger receivers he will see in the NFL. I wouldn't be mad with either one at #30.

We lost a few good men that year for one reason or another.

Mods! BAN HIM! I don't even think it is tv feeds it is certain twitter accounts - DraftDiamonds is one - who have access to the same league wire as the teams and fair enough them tweeting it, I have no issue with that. I do have issue with those of us who stay off twitter for exactly that reason then being subjected to it by idiots who just take joy in ruining it.

And so we have arrived on the doorstep of the 2025 NFL Draft. The excellent @Virgil mock drafts are done and in the book, the arguments about the merits of drafting a corner in round one have been had and now it is almost time for the speculation to stop and the Commissioner to formally put the Tennessee Titans on the clock. I think we know where they are going and we probably know where the next three picks after that are going too, but from there unpredictability could reign. It promises to be an interesting three days. I've been doing these pre-draft compendium threads for a few years now and while one of my regular pre-draft features, my Quarterback evaluations, is missing this year - just ran out of time - we do have the addition of the Gunner and Gonzo collab mock podcast which seems to have gone down well since we posted on Tuesday. I have graded 142 players this year for the board... probably watched at least some film of about 190 or so... but done enough work on 142 to be happy with them on the board. Just a general reflection on this draft at the start. I think it is one of the weaker first rounds we have seen - certainly at the top of round one. There is a group of 3/4 players (I have Mason Graham sort of clinging onto that group others have him lower) at the very top, a few with mid first round type grades and then a bulk of late firsts and early seconds. And that depth goes on. I think rounds 2 to 4 it is a reasonably good draft. It just lacks the star power at the top. So to break it down in more detail.... here are links to the products already published on the board: My 2025 Draft Sleepers Gunner and Gonzo Collab Mock Draft Podcast 2025 My final 2025 Mock Draft The new content for this thread is: A full list of my 15 first round grades Analysis of my top 100 My positional 'Top 5s' [Key: * denotes medical concern; ^ denotes potential off-field / behavioural concern] First Round Grades: 1. Travis Hunter, CB/WR, Colorado 2. Abdul Carter, DE, Penn State 3. Ashton Jeanty, RB, Boise State 4. Mason Graham, DT, Michigan 5. Jahdae Barron, CB, Texas 6. Kelvin Banks Jnr, OT, Texas 7. Malaki Starks, S, Georgia 8. Jalon Walker, DE/LB, Georgia 9. Tetairoa McMillan, WR, Arizona 10. James Pearce Jnr^, DE, Tennessee 11. Walter Nolan^, DT, Ole Miss 12. Will Campbell, OT, LSU 13. Mike Green, DE^, Marshall 14. Will Johnson*, CB, Michigan 15. Jihaad Campbell*, LB, Alabama I also then have four 1st/2nd round borderline grades. They are: 16. Cam Ward, QB, Miami; 17. Armand Membou, OT, Missouri; 18. Tyler Warren, TE, Penn State; 19. Shavon Revel*, CB, East Carolina. Analysis of the top 100: Here is the positional breakdown of my top 100:- Quarterback: 5 Running Back: 7 Tight End: 5 Wide Receiver: 12 Offensive Tackle: 9 Interior Offensive Line: 7 Total offensive players: 45 Interior Defensive Line: 13 Edge Rusher: 18 Linebacker: 5 Corner: 13 Safety: 6 Total defensive players: 55 Strengths and Weaknesses of the top 100: It is overall a slightly better defensive draft than offensive draft largely influenced by the fact that, it is no secret by this point, the strength of this draft is the defensive line group. THIRTY ONE of my top 100 are defensive linemen. The edge class is pretty consistent throughout. I have four first round grades, seven second round grades, five third round grades and then another batch in the fourth. Defensive tackle is more of a bulge in the second round, it does thin out a bit after that before rebounding a bit later. A lot has also been said about this running back class and the tight end group. I like both although because of positional value my top 100 doesn't necessarily scream that. I have seven running backs in my top 100 but then six more guys after that that I have 4th round grades on. I have five tight ends in the top 100, still an increase from just three last year, and all five are in the top 75 with then a small batch just outside. I always say tight end classes seem to go in odd years. This is a decent year after a really thin group in 2024. It is weaker at Quarterback that's no secret I have only watched five guys in enough detail to grade them and while all five are in the top 100, I think Ward is the only one with both a solid floor and a reasonable ceiling. Shedeur Sanders has a solid floor but I think his ceiling is capable game manager style starter, Jaxon Dart has a high ceiling but his decision making terrifies me at times... like Will Levis level terrifying... Jalen Milroe is a guy I think you take and commit to sitting and letting your QB coach work with him for almost an entire year before you put him near an NFL field and Quinn Ewers I like as a backup with some moxie but his accuracy is spotty - Gardner Minshew is kinda my pro comp for him. It's another weaker group at off-ball linebacker too. I feel like that is increasingly becoming the most scheme specific position in pro football. Beyond the physical freaks - like Jihaad Campbell at the top of this class - it's guys who are great college players but don't necessarily scream pro level athletes or a bunch of athletes you've gotta teach to play the position. As I said at the top, while overall this is a weaker first round, I can see a lot of guys who get selected day 2 and early day 3 in this draft being really good NFL players for a long time. Wouldn't surprise me if when you look back at this draft in 4 to 5 years time the pro bowlers and all pros that came out of it came as much from rounds two through four as round one. A team like Seattle - five picks between #18 and #92 is in prime position to refresh its roster in the 2025 NFL Draft. Positional Top 5s: (round I have them graded in parenthesis) Quarterback 1. Cam Ward, Miami (1st/2nd) 2. Shedeur Sanders, Colorado (2nd) 3. Jaxon Dart, Ole Miss (2nd/3rd) 4. Jalen Milroe (3rd) 5. Quinn Ewers (3rd/4th) (caveat, these are the only five QBs I'd watched enough to grade) Running Back 1. Ashton Jeanty, Boise State (1st) 2. Omarion Hampton, UNC (2nd) 3. TreVeyon Henderson, Ohio State (2nd) 4. Cam Skattebo, Arizona State (3rd) 5. DJ Giddens, Kansas State (3rd) Wide Receiver 1. Tetairoa McMillan, Arizona (1st) 2. Matthew Golden, Texas (2nd) 3. Emeka Egbuka, Ohio State (2nd) 4. Luther Burden III, Missouri (2nd) 5. Isaiah Bond^, Texas (2nd) Tight End 1. Tyler Warren, Penn State (1st/2nd) 2. Colston Loveland, Michigan (2nd) 3. Mason Taylor, LSU (2nd) 4. Harold Fannin, Bowling Green (3rd) 5. Elijah Arroyo, Miami (3rd) Offensive Tackle 1. Kelvin Banks Jnr, Texas (1st) 2. Will Campbell, LSU (1st) 3. Armand Membou, Missouri (1st/2nd) 4. Josh Simmons*, Ohio State (2nd) 5. Josh Conerly Jnr, Oregon (2nd) Interior Offensive Line 1. Grey Zabel, North Dakota State (2nd) 2. Tyler Booker, Alabama (2nd) 3. Donovan Jackson, Ohio State (2nd) 4. Marcus Mbow, Purdue (2nd) 5. Wyatt Milum, West Virginia (3rd) Interior Defensive Line 1. Mason Graham, Michigan (1st) 2. Walter Nolan^, Ole Miss (1st) 3. Derrick Harmon*, Oregon (2nd) 4. Kenneth Grant, Michigan (2nd) 5. TJ Sanders, South Carolina (2nd) EDGE 1. Abdul Carter, Penn State (1st) 2. Jalon Walker, Georgia (1st) 3. James Pearce Jnr^, Tennessee (1st) 4. Mike Green^, Marshall (1st) 5. Nic Scourton, Texas A&M (2nd) Linebacker 1. Jihaad Campbell*, Alabama (1st) 2. Carson Schwesinger, UCLA (2nd) 3. Demetrius Knight Jnr, South Carolina (2nd/3rd) 4. Danny Stutsman, Oklahoma (3rd) 5. Barrett Carter, Clemson (4th) Corner 1. Travis Hunter, Colorado (1st) 2. Jahdae Barron, Texas (1st) 3. Will Johnson*, Michigan (1st) 4. Shavon Revel*, East Carolina (1st/2nd) 5. Trey Amos, Ole Miss (2nd) Safety 1. Malaki Starks, Georgia (1st) 2. Nick Emmanwori, South Carolina (2nd) 3. Xavier Watts, Notre Dame (2nd) 4. Kevin Winston*, Penn State (3rd) 5. Andrew Mukuba, Texas (3rd) Final thoughts When you look at those top fives the other thing that stands out is a total of ten players with either an injury or off field character flag. We will see how that affects things, especially in the first round, this evening. My sense is the guys where it is really going to make a difference in terms of character are Isaiah Bond and to a lesser extent Mike Green where there are concrete accusations of behaviour that would be criminal if substantiated. On the injuries, I don't get the sense there is a Justin Ross or a Carson Strong level injury here where a guy who could go day two goes undrafted but guys like Simmons, Revel and possibly Campbell who might miss a chunk of, if not all, their rookie training camp will be crossing their fingers that it doesn't cost them in the draft, and ultimately in their pockets. I normally try and predict a shock guy here who we haven't heard much as a potential pick in round one but could sneak in and for me it is probably Mason Taylor, the tight end from LSU or TreVeyon Henderson the Ohio State running back. In terms of surprise fallers I say in my mock draft that Tyler Booker slipping out of round one is a definite possibility, I also think Malaki Starks is an outside bet for the surprise faller. Just happens so often to safeties. If Starks does fall you can bet he would hear his name called very early on day two when the NFL has a night to reflect on its own idiocy. That's it from me for now, a lot of hours of prep for this draft done and dusted. I'll be in the draft thread as we go tonight (please no pick tipping 🙄) and then back tomorrow morning with my day 1 debrief - including scoring my final mock - for you to read with your morning coffee. Enjoy day 1 folks, the time is now!

You went back and forth at least four times I can see....

Thank you again @Virgil - it wouldn't be draft season without these mocks. Outstanding job from you on organising again!

Yea my phone. I think that's why we lost a few seconds of audio on the Broncos 1st rounder because I was trying to silence notifications. Anyway, if we were going to do again I'd have longer to scope out tech solutions.... it was all a bit rustic, part of it's charm I'd say . We have had 274 downloads of the pod, which given that we have not promoted it anywhere else I am assuming are largely from this board (though some just searching for NFL draft pods on podbean may have come across it) so the support has been great guys. Thanks very much.

Here we are.... after multiple re-writes last night and this morning here it is version 3.0 - the mock I will grade myself against tomorrow! I only have one Quarterback here. To be crystal clear I do expect one more to go (probably Sanders but possibly Dart) as a result of a team trading back into the first. But as my final prediction is always a no-trade mock I am sticking and picking for all 32 teams. Enjoy reading folks! 1 – Tennessee Titans – Cam Ward – Quarterback, Miami This pick has been locked down for well over a month now, Cam Ward is going #1 overall and will be the new face of the franchise in Nashville. 2 – Cleveland Browns – Travis Hunter – Cornerback / Wide Receiver, Colorado As I said in version 2.0, this comes down to either Abdul Carter or Travis Hunter and with Myles Garrett signed to a new deal I think the perimeter playmaking ability of Hunter (on both sides of the ball) fills a bigger need. He now feels all but guaranteed to be the pick. 3 – New York Giants – Abdul Carter – Edge Rusher, Penn State The Giants could have fooled everyone and be planning to take a Quarterback at #3 but I don’t think so. Russell Wilson is going to start for them in 2025, and they will take the best player available and add Abdul Carter to their pass rushing arsenal. 4 – New England Patriots – Will Campbell – Offensive Tackle, LSU In a world where both Carter and Hunter are off the board I expect the Patriots to take Will Campbell. While his length concerns me to be a long term left tackle his quick feet and athleticism give him a solid chance to be a successful pro even if that ends up being at guard. 5 – Jacksonville Jaguars – Ashton Jeanty – Running Back, Boise State The word on the street with the Jaguars is expect the unexpected. I am increasingly hearing and believing the talk of Tet McMillan going at this spot but I’m not quite brave enough to pull the trigger here so I will play it safer and project Ashton Jeanty as the selection. 6 – Las Vegas Raiders – Kelvin Banks Jnr – Offensive Tackle, Texas The Raiders are going offensive line. The intrigue is which guy. Armand Membou has been the consensus pick at this spot but increasingly you are hearing that the NFL likes Kelvin Banks Jnr much more than the talking heads do. He is my #1 tackle I’m making him the pick. 7 – New York Jets – Tyler Warren – Tight End, Penn State While I think Jahdae Barron is in play I believe the Jets would prefer to go offense. With Davante Adams gone they are short on passing game targets and their new offensive coordinator is a former tight ends coach too so joining the dots I expect Tyler Warren to be the pick. 8 – Carolina Panther – Jalon Walker – Linebacker, Georgia The entire league believes the Panthers are locked in on Jalon Walker, but I do wonder if Mason Graham still being on the board changes things given that they were in on Milton Williams in free agency. However, Walker is a Carolina kid and is their kind of personality too so I like the fit. 9 – New Orleans Saints – Mykel Williams – Edge Rusher, Georgia I don’t believe the Saints are drafting a Quarterback at this spot and will instead focus on the trenches. Mickey Loomis has a type when it comes to edge rushers – long and toolsy – which is very much a description that fits Mykel Williams. 10 – Chicago Bears – Mason Graham – Defensive Tackle, Michigan I think the Bears would take Kelvin Banks if he reached this spot but given he is gone and Mason Graham is sliding I think the value might be too good to miss. I know the Bears signed Grady Jarrett in free agency, but he turns 32 on Monday. Graham is a longer term solution. 11 – San Francisco 49ers – Walter Nolen – Defensive Tackle, Ole Miss I made this selection in the Virgil v3.0 Mock Draft a few days ago and then lo and behold suddenly all the buzz is about Nolen to the 49ers. Their defensive tackle position is pretty weak right now and Nolen is absolutely tailor made for Robert Saleh’s scheme. 12 – Dallas Cowboys – Tetairoa McMillan – Wide Receiver, Arizona Dallas needs to upgrade at wide receiver where beyond CeeDee Lamb the cupboard is bare. I had been thinking Golden might be the pick but all the smoke out there at the moment is about Tet McMillan and I can totally see him landing in this spot. 13 – Miami Dolphins – Armand Membou – Offensive Tackle, Missouri Corner is definitely in play for the Dolphins here too, but they have to be better up front protecting Tua and because he is a lefty if there is any team that can legitimately value right tackle more than left it is the Dolphins. Membou is an upgrade on Austin Jackson. 14 – Indianapolis Colts – Colston Loveland – Tight End, Michigan The Colts have been linked to tight ends right throughout this process and while I have heard whispers that they really like Shermar Stewart too I can’t see them going pass rusher in back to first rounds so I will stick with Loveland to add a weapon in a make or break season for Anthony Richardson. 15 – Atlanta Falcons – James Pearce Jnr – Edge Rusher, Tennessee This is the year! Atlanta is finally going to address its edge rush issues. I believe this will be one of Mykel Williams (already off the board), Mike Green or James Pearce and some people I trust are saying Pearce is the most likely selection. 16 – Arizona Cardinals – Matthew Golden – Wide Receiver, Texas I am told that the Cardinals feel they have done enough with the defensive front seven to free them up to target other positions at this spot. Corner is in play but their GM has talked about needing more speed on offense. Matthew Golden would bring that missing element. 17 – Cincinnati Bengals – Shermar Stewart – Edge Rusher, Texas A&M Even if Trey Hendrikson ends up staying the Bengals need to bolster their pass rush. They are another front office that like to draft length and size and Shermar Stewart is 6’5 with over 34 inch arms. He fits their prototype. 18 – Seattle Seahawks – Nick Emmanwori – Safety, South Carolina I made this pick in Virgil’s mock v2.0 and in the Gunner and Gonzo collab mock. I just think it makes a ton of sense from a scheme fit. Everyone else is pegging Grey Zabel here, and I get that too, but with two second rounders I feel like interior offensive line can be addressed later. 19 – Tampa Bay Buccaneers – Jihaad Campbell – Linebacker, Alabama I have had this match in all three of my mock drafts. He could slide further because of the shoulder issue but the Buccs have done so much work on linebackers this spring I think they might just be willing to take a swing given their long term need there. 20 – Denver Broncos – Emeka Egbuka – Wide Receiver, Ohio State The Broncos have been linked to tight ends and running backs for the longest time, but despite Omarion Hampton still being on the board here the latest noise is saying wide receiver and Egbuka would be a good compliment to Courtland Sutton. 21 – Pittsburgh Steelers – Derrick Harmon – Defensive Tackle, Oregon I do not believe the Steelers will take Shedeur Sanders at #21. I have been hearing for weeks and weeks that they are set on finding Cam Heyward’s long term replacement at defensive tackle and Derrick Harmon feels like a very good fit in that role. 22 – Los Angeles Chargers – Kenneth Grant – Defensive Tackle, Michigan It might be slightly lazy to just keep mocking Michigan Wolverines to Jim Harbaugh and the Chargers, but they do have a major need on the defensive line. Poona Ford played well for them in 2024 but left in free agency. 23 – Green Bay Packers – Will Johnson – Cornerback, Michigan Finally, a pure corner comes off the board and it is no surprise that is to the Packers. Eric Stokes left in free agency and Jaire Alexander’s future remains somewhat undecided. Johnson would be a good scheme fit even if he lacks ideal length. 24 – Minnesota Vikings – Jahdae Barron – Cornerback, Texas Jahdae Barron has admirers in the top 10 to 12 picks of this draft but if he doesn’t go there he is likely to slide into the early 20s because of team needs and his physical profile. Minnesota will likely try and trade back but I think they do want to upgrade at corner. 25 – Houston Texans – Grey Zabel – Interior Offensive Line, North Dakota State It has been a spring of turmoil on the Texans offensive line and I think the idea of a guy like Zabel who has played all five spots in college will be attractive as they try and piece together a starting five to protect CJ Stroud better than they did in 2024. 26 – Los Angeles Rams – Maxwell Hariston – Cornerback, Kentucky I had the Rams going Trey Amos in my last version and in the Gunner and Gonzo collab mock but I’m flipping now to Hariston. They would essentially be drafting him as the long term replacement for Darious Williams who has a similar physical profile to the Kentucky corner. 27 – Baltimore Ravens – Malaki Starks – Safety, Georgia Stop me if you have heard this before but the Ravens stand pat at their original spot and have one of the top 10 players in the draft (at least by my board) fall right into their laps. Malaki Starks and Kyle Hamilton has the potential to be an all-world safety combination. 28 – Detroit Lions – Donovan Ezeiruaku – Edge Rusher, Boston College I still like this fit. The Lions get Marcus Davenport back, whose season ended in week two last year, but Za’Darius Smith was released and their depth is questionable. Ezeiruaku feels like their kind of person and their kind of player and steps right in opposite Aiden Hutchinson. 29 – Washington Commanders – Mike Green – Edge Rusher, Marshall Mike Green has had an up and down draft process, wowing evaluators at the Senior Bowl only to have the off-field allegations about him emerge at the Combine. After which teams have stayed away. Only two turned up at his pro day, but one of them was the Washington Commanders. 30 – Buffalo Bills – Trey Amos – Cornerback, Ole Miss I’ve put my neck out on the board and said to me the Bills pick at #30 comes down to Amos, Hariston or Nick Scourton. While I don’t rule out a trade back, with the corner run in the 20s my guess is the Bills would stick and pick if one of the defensive backs reached them. 31 – Kansas City Chiefs – Josh Simmons – Offensive Tackle, Ohio State The latest on Josh Simmons’s recovery from the ACL tear, suffered last October, is that he might miss most of camp but should be full go by the start of the season. Having signed 49ers backup Jaylon Moore in free agency the Chiefs can afford to ease him in gently. 32 – Philadelphia Eagles – Tyler Booker – Interior Offensive Line, Alabama Booker is attending the draft but he is my idea of the guy that slides out of round one if teams coming up from round two for Quarterbacks pushes talent down, but in this scenario Howie Roseman reverts to his tried and tested formula of best big school SEC player available.

Ha. Well I hate nothing more than a radio show / podcast where the hosts sound the same and I can't work out which one is talking. At least we don't fall into that trap 😆

Good job @gonzo1105. I am in the gym with my list in front of me still swapping guys about.... but I think first half of the round is pretty similar to what I have them more differences second half (but largely the same names just different order).

I am glad it wasn't all out Tuesday.... we would have taken 3 hours 🤣

Recent years Charlie and Peter Schrager are the two most consistent. Josh Norris was pretty good when he was at Rotoworld but the last couple of year's less so. Guess where he is now he has less access.

And to add I think we both thought about the guy at #56 earlier but he is a bit more scheme dependent than some of the other edge guys who ended up in front of him. It wouldn't shock me if he went earlier. I think the Bills at #56 is probably that player's floor unless the Bills have gone edge at #30.

I still think Amos and Hariston are the two most likely picks there. Who would I pick? James Pearce.

Yep. Tomorrow morning. I don't think however I will get to my detailed QB write ups this year. Just gonna run out of time I think.

I think Hunter is the slightly superior talent, but for the Bills I'd take Abdul Carter.

My best available are: Barron Starks Campbell Pearce Scourton Revel Simmons Golden Amos Harmon Egbuka Hampton

Unfortunately SDS was clear on no commercialisation.... so we had to drop them last minute. Pity. They reckoned TBD members were their target audience.

With thanks to the mods for agreeing we could post this here, find a link to a full two round mock podcast just recorded with me @GunnerBill and @gonzo1105! We were trying to get through two rounds in an hour and a half but we talked too much so we overran slightly (it's about 1hr 50) but here it is for your pleasure! The sounds quality is only okay, but it is good enough to listen to. https://www.podbean.com/pa/pbblog-zxmgh-abe0f6 Feedback much appreciated... but I'm not gonna tip the Bills picks... you will just have to listen to find out 😄

Yea my lodger who is a uni student does that. Asks ChatGPT to write it, then rewrites it but keeps the structure.

I always said AI was smart 😂

With the 11th pick of the 2025 TSW Mock Draft v3.0, the San Francisco 49ers select: Walter Nolen, Defensive Tackle, Ole Miss Robert Saleh has returned to the Bay area as Defensive Coordinator but when he walks back into the defensive meeting room he isn't going to find the embarrassment of riches he had in his first stint with Arik Armstead, DeForest Buckner, Javon Kinlaw and Soloman Thomas ready and waiting to play on the interior of the defensive line. Jordan Elliott and Evan Anderson are currently pencilled in as the starters and that is a major hole on the roster. Nolen is the perfect style of one gapping penetrator that Saleh loves and while there have been character concerns surrounding him they appear to be about maturity and whether his motor runs hot and cold, rather than anything that could cost him time on the field. I considered Armand Membou here, as our offensive line needs help, but if I'm addressing that in round one I want someone who one day can succeed Trent Williams at left tackle and taking college right tackles then moving them to the left side in the NFL almost always fails. The Dallas Cowboys and @RyanC883 are now on the clock. Time to lock Jerry in a cupboard.

Take out the second half blowout of the Jets week 17 and the Patriots game week 18 and almost all his snaps came inside at nickel or dime. I think the Bills see him as a break class in case of emergency option only outside. They view him as a nickel/dime back.