Dan

I don't recall every claiming to be intelligent. But the intelligent ones seem to be lost in the sea of discontent.

I see lots of these "tank" threads... And people claiming to love the "plan" the FO has. But, who says there's any plan whatseoever? And where did this notion come from that we could dump all the good players from the team, lose alot of games, get the #1 pick, draft best QB ever. Then win in 2018 with rookie QB and a roster full of no other good players?? And why does anyone have any faith in this FO to suddenly start picking star players? They have zero teack record with picking good players or coaching them into a winning team. I think the drought has turned this fanbase from an intellegent, football-loving group. To peopel that think the off season is more fun than the football season. It's really perhaps the most pathetic thing I've seen...when a large portion of the fan base has completely given up on the season in August and is looking forward to next year's draft. This is what ..we've.. all become. We don't eve nhave hope anymore. So far all I can see from the current coach and FO is they've taken the last thing we Bills fans had to cling to. We can't even hope to compete like a decent team any more.

Except that several, at least, of the recently released players have been pretty productive contributors on their new teams. Its not like they got traded/cut and are now out of the league. So I'd say they've let NFL talent walk. The problem with the Bills has been crap coaching and a FO that has been clueless at building and team. And until, the new coaches and FO actually field a professional team, there's little reason to think the new bunch is better than the old bunch. Maybe they are, but maybe they're spinning their wheels just like everyone for the last 2 decades has done. Bottom line... No one has helped this team field a winning team. Not a single player, coach, scout, GM. Dump them all, keep them all. I honestly don't care. Just figure out how to compete on an NFL level, already. But, I'll say this regarding the trade - all the talk of the Bills finally having a plan is just that talk. We have yet to see this "plan" actually produce anything on the field. And it looks, at this point, that we have a solid 2-3 years of mediocrity before we know if these guys are better than the last guys.

You don't ..build.. a team and get better if you trade your good players. These aren't just bad moves, they're idiotic.

Pretty much my sentiments. I just want to see a professional, competent ..team. Although I care less about the win, because once the 2nd half gets there, the score is pretty much irrelevant. However, they should all look prepared, focused, and competent. I just want to finally say... The Bills are able to field a real NFL team.

Thank you! I'm trying... and you do make many good points. Maybe by September, I'll work my way back into the hopeful phase. Lol. But your last sentiment is really all I've hoped for the last couple seasons. Yeah, we all want playoffs and more...but at this point we need an organization that can just consistently field a good, hard hitting team each week. Then actually win more games than they lose each year. That's how far this franchise has fallen. More often than not, they don't even look like a professional football team, let alone actually win games they should.

I was thinking of starting a thread similar to this yesterday. My brother-in-law and I always talk football and yesterday he's asking me... How's the Bills looking? What's their big moves? (He's a Broncos fan). Sadly, my answer was... I don't know. Does any of it matter? We started talking more about how football is getting unwatchable lately, and for me, how much these last 17 years have weighed upon my eternal hope. He used to joke... 10yrs ago.. How do you guys do it? Every year think the Bills are going to the playoffs and every year they suck. And sadly... I can't get excited by the offseason hope any more. Will they suck? Will they be good? I don't know. However, I've seen this team go through coaching changes, player changes, owners, entire front offices, GMs, fans born, fans died. But, one thing remains constant... The mediocrity that is this team. We haven't had decent coaching in forever. We haven't had true impact players since the late 90's. We've fielded more unfocused, poorly prepared, ..soft.. teams than I care to recount. Last year I didn't get Sunday ticket and don't feel I missed much.. .even when they won. This year, for the 2nd season ever, I won't try to watch every game. I just can't get excited any more. They've beaten me down. So, if I may ask a different question? For those of you excited, optimistic... How can I be that way again? Not for the game day experience... I live in ID and spend most every week on the road somewhere else. I've never had the joy of attending a game at Rich Stadium, and don't know that I ever will. Why should I... How can I ..get excited about a team that has changed everything, yet again, in hopes that this is finally the right combination? Why should we even watch the NFL at all when the one team I hate the most is the only team that ever seems to win and is showing no signs of stopping?

It's ..all of the above... They have good players, smart players, coaches, game plans, they definitely get favoritism by the refs, but they also, bend the rules, out and out cheat, steal play books, and just about anything else you wanna mention. Sure Brady is great.. But Cassel took the same team to 11-5. Last year, they started 3–1 without him. Its not all about Brady. Its about a system of designing game plans, bending the rules of the game and insisting that players follow exactly what they're coached to do, all while the league looks the other way at any misgivings. That's why I hate that team and the league more and more. Not because they always win.. But because of how they always win and the rest of the league just takes it.

You don't need the benefit of hindsight to see that they have been one of, if not the most, dominant teams in sports history. They're a perrenial double digit win team, winning the division is practically a given, the only real question is are they the number 1 or number 2 seed every year. The only thing left for historians to figure out will be how much of that success was due to cheating? And how much was do to their ability? The Bills, in any other division, unfortunately are still just the Bills. They've been horribly inconsistent for nearly 20 years. We can't even beat the Jets and Fins with regularity. Yeah, we have 2 automatic losses on our schedule due to the cheating team, but that doesn't explain why we can't field a consistent team that plays well against everyone else. So, if the Bill played in the NFC North, I'd predict a few other teams.. Vikings and Lions perhaps, would have a better record and make the playoffs more frequently. Until this franchise figures out how to field a professional football team.. .we're stuck in mediocrity regardless of the opponent.

I'm unsure about the offseason so far..and the state of the franchise. I was glad to see Rex gone. He needed to go before he was hired. Then McDermott comes in and hires what appears to be a solid coaching stafff. Things look good. Then we have, by all accounts, a great draft. Things are looking better. Now, we're cleaning out the FO. It's like a roller coaster. I'll add just a couple of thoughts. First, when or why Whaley got canned is a little irrelevant. I've seen the argument for keeping your GM till after the draft, and quite honestly, it makes a ton of good sense. But, do I have confidence the Pegulas can hire a competent replacement? No. They've yet to earn that confidence from us fans. Yes, I believe they'll certainly try. But, can anyone honestly say they have confidence in their sports teams hires? Same with McDermott. I want to like him. You certainly hear nothing but good things. But, until we see the team he puts on the field in September, we really don't know how its going to go with him. So, right now, I guess I just have no confidence in anything the organization is doing. It's all a complete unknown. Secondly, everyone agrees we needed a culture change. When losing runs as deep as it does in this franchise, you can only do it one way.... Replace everyone. In the sports world you're judged by the win/loss record. And there's not a single person associated with this franchise over the last decade(s) that can say they've passed that test. So, I'm not upset about Whaley or anyone on this team or associated with this team being shown the door. But, like I said before, the new people have to earn their right to stay, based on the production on the field. And finally, it's going to take time to build a solid, consistent winner. Football isn't like any of the other sports, it takes a full team, no single superstar can do it all. So, for better or worse, I'm fully on board for giving McD and the new FO 5yrs to get this team headed in the right direction. With all that said, there's one very clear way to build a consistent winner... Get a damn QB. If Tryod isn't that guy or even if you're still not completely sure. Trade the entire draft and Dareus to get the #1 spot next year and get the consesnus best QB. Don't be smart, don't be cute, just get a true franchise QB. If they don't McDermott's tenure here will end like all the others. I guess in a year or two we'll know exactly where this franchise is headed. Until then, there's little any of us can do but.. Hope. Hang in there, it can't get worse. We truly have no where to go but up. I just don't know if we're going to play around in the muck and the mire for a few more years or if they've started working on that ladder with the moves over the last couple months.

I'm a huge proponent of drafting a QB every year, till you find ..the.. guy. But, with that said, there's almost zero chance that a rookie is going to outplay Tyrod. Opening up a competition for the starting QB spot, would just set this team back further. Draft a guy and let him develop.

It affects all posters here if someone posts content that gets the board shut down because of copyright infringement. It's really pretty simple... 1. Post a link to the full article. 2. Say something fun like... This is a good article! I like it. 3. If you really want to be a go getter... Put a few quotes or partial paragraph in quotes from the article to make us all think, wow I like that. I should go read that good article and then post my thoughts about it back here. Follow those 3 simple steps and no one on some random website thinks we're stealing their content, the board here hums along in harmony, cats and dogs play together, the world is a brighter place.

That made me laugh. I'm not sure what that guy did to you, but I can appreciate your passion! Its weird how you can get attached to a message board. I don't know if it's nostalgia for an internet era bye gone or something more meaningful. But, there really is something about a community like this. I could never thank you enough for keeping this site and all the good Bills' conversation going for so many years through so much bad football. All I know is that there's only one website I check everyday. The Bills and this message board, in particular, have gottten me through some very difficult times in my life. And if this site ever just vanished without warning... Well, I'd be lost! Thank you for all you do.

Who's collecting all the wine from these new guys?

I have to disagree about many of our problems being on the players. It's the coaches job to inspire and instill a certain attitidue and toughness in the players. The X's and O's of where to line up and who are you covering is one thing, but as Billick said players have to be willing to sacrifice and buy in to thier roles. That's what the really good coaches do. They get the players to buy in and instill that attitude, before the wins stack up and give evidence that it's all working. All these players know how to tackle. They've been doing it their whole life. So all of a sudden they forget? They stop trying? Or caring? Why is that? It comes back to coaching. Same with Gilmore ans Darby. They were 2 of the best CBs in the league one year, the next... They can't cover? What changed? Is it they suddenly forgot what they were doing? Or is it the mentality and attitidue of the coaching staff that led them to either be confused or complacent? Rex and his coaching staff installed a lackluster, easy going attitude. Then they piled on an overly complex and misguided system. It's easy to see why it failed. And some people knew it was going to happen from the day he was hired, because that's where his teams had been trending for years.

The ownership and Whaley have all said they want stability and they're willing to put ..their.. money where their mouth is to prove it. Having a coaching staff under contract doesn't seem to be a hinderance to the owners when making decisions. Why does it concern the fanbase so much? Bills fans are cheap!

I get where you're going. But, seriously, if we're so beaten down by this team and its losing, that even making the playoffs seems depressing... Then its time to turn off all football for a while. Yes, the Dolphins got beat easily are are 1 and done. But, in the first year of a new HC after a pretty bad start... They improved enough to be one of the 6 best teams in the AFC. That's a heck of a year by any standard! The way I see it, and perhaps I'm out dated, but when you've been as bad as this team had been for as long as it has been; you have to start small. To expect us to go from ...this. To Superbowl in 1 year is just unrealistic. First we (and I mean everyone from the FO to the coaches to the players and yes to the fans) have to learn to how to win more than they lose, learn to expect good things, make the playoffs, deal with that added attention, and then win in the playoffs. Its rare for any team to do that in 1 season. And when you're starting with a dumpster fire, its even more improbable. Would I be happy for a playoff spot? Hell, I'm still hoping for a professional NFL team to show up every Sunday. So, yeah, I'd love to see us make the playoffs and let the outcome be as it may. ...for a couple years

It almost certainly good have been handled better. In fact, pretty much everything they've said since Rex's firing could have been communicated better.

In a few years... Yeah, people will only see the win/loss record and forget the particulars of his first game as HC. However, if anyone is currently looking at that game and say... "But you didn't win. Your team lacked focus. Why didn't you start so and so?" Then, you do not want to work for them, because they're clueless. Lynn is getting serious looks this off season, not because he was a HC for a week, but because he took over as OC after week 2 and guided the Bills to the best rushing attack in the league and overall good offensive stats for the season.

Winning that game does nothing to help the team, but there were several things that could help the team by benching him. So benching him was absolutely the right decision. He had a groin injury. They needed to evaluate EJ. The game was essentially a preseason game. The only reason to play him is if he was within reach of meeting some performance-based bonus. If Lynn or Tyrod can't understand that, then i'm not sure what it says about them.

Did he report in parallel to Whaley and the owner? Honestly, I don't know. Nor do I think it matters in the end. If one of the people under me, went and talked directly to the owner of the company ans walked out of that meeting fired, I don't see it as a reflection on me. And even if I did talk to my boss and find out why he fired them, I wouldn't tell anyone else. Its none of their business. Maybe I'd have a better line than Whaley used. But either way... To focus on the what they did or didn't know, when they knew it, whatever... Is all sideshow blather. I totally agree with Whaley... Let's focus on finding a new HC and winning. People can say the press doesn't impact the decisions or the process, but they do. Like I said, I deal with the press and public opinion all the time. And when you have to spend the majority of your time and energy answering periphery questions and accustations and trying to refute completely made up claims... All because a realtively small number of people are shouting at you. It does affect your work, what you're doing, and how successful you can be. This is all a distraction. That's all it is. And if a HC candidate buys into this distraction, then I wouldn't want to hire him any way.

I don't diagree with most of what you've said. The person(s) prepping Whaley didn't do a good job. As an organization, they all under estimated the degree to which the press and public were going to jump on this firing. I think they started to realize that and had to have the owners actually come out and respond. And it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn in a month that there's new PR people in place within the organization. With all that, though, I still just don't see how this all makes Whaley look so diminutive. In the interview, it would be extremely easy to say... That is how our organizational structure was; because of A, B, C. This is how it will be going forward. And you have team Pegs there to say, yep that's right. End of discussion as far as the HC candidate is concerned. Of course, the media will ask the new guy all sorts of questions about who he reports to and if there's any issues with the owner and they probably won't like his canned answers either... But we can all argue over that in another month

You forgot one key word that I said. ....usually. Public Relations people develop these say nothing answers and talking points, then instruct you to go back to them at every possible opportunity. The end result is nothing new is let out and nothing bad is said. And..usually..the media peoples will walk away thinking what a waste. For a variety of reasons, this time, they circled the wagons and went for Whaley's head afterward. But if you listen to what he said... He gave no indication of dysfunction, as others have said... Rex did not report to Whaley; he reported to Pegs. So why is it dysfunctional for Whaley to not know what Pegs and Rex talked about? He gave no indication that Russ was in any way involved or would be in the new search. Yet, people are still bringing his name up as being involved. And so on. I'm not saying Whaley did a great job because he answered all the questions and clarified the machinations at OBD. I'm suggesting that he said exactly what was instructed by the PR dept, which is his job in this situation. The fact that it has blowed up into all this dumpster fire talk, IMO, is people projecting the past onto the present and being stirred by a media core that are loving the added interest by it all.

I agree. I don't think a lot of people have listened to it. Why do I keep reading about Brandon? He wasn't there. The only mention of him was Whaley saying he has other responsibilities and isn't involved. Yet, somehow, Russ' name keeps getting thrown about like he was there. People are just projecting past criticisms onto the current situation. That's all. If anything I feel more positive, because he said very plainly that Russ is not involved in any way. I mean isn't that what we've all been wanting for years? I disagree. Whaley did a great job. Many people think he didn't because he gave a lot of BS answers. But that was almost certainly his intent. I do alot of press events. And for the big ones, you always have a PR person give you your "talking points". These are the answers they want you to give, and tell you at every opportunity...go back to it. That's what you say. And then sit and wait for another question. Then give the same answer. Repeat until someone tells you that to leave. The answers I bolded are almost certainly PR-provided responses that he continually came back to. There are a few others he had as well. But, I guarantee he was given these answers and probably even rehearsed types of questions and when to use them. Does it give the press the answers they want... No. Does it give the public the answers they want... No. But, it gets him out of there without doing any addtional damage... Usually. And its how all big organizations typically handle press conferences, especially likely combative ones.

I finally had time to watch the Whaley press conference. I've also read half the threads here about it. ..and all I have to say is.. Holy crap!! Talk about much ado about nothing! First of all, Whaley did a great job! He clearly had several talking points the PR people wanted him to stick to... And he did. I'm focused on winning. I was not privy to that conversation. The ownership issued a statement. Etc. etc. he stayed on point and gave the press zero additional bait. So what do they all do... Begin the spin and speculation because that's all they have. Could/should he have been more candid and discussed the inner workings and conversations? Maybe. Maybe that would have altered all this specualtion about ownerships involvement, Russ' involvement, the FO structure, etc. But, clearly, the owners and Whaley don't want that information out there and that's that. So he stone walled the press. But, of course, they still have papers to sell (or clicks to get), so they're gonna write something! But, a few points.... Whaley seemed more confident than I've ever seen him. For the first time it seems he's actually making the decisions and it's not a committee decision. We have a "football guy" running the show. Maybe he sucks. I suppose we'll find out. But, it's all on him for the first time ever, it seems. Also... What's with all the Tyrod specualtion? He clearly said... If the Bills were still in the hunt, Tyrod would have started. Period. The decision to sit him and look at EJ, was clearly a business decision. They had one game left to decide if EJ had progressed enough to stay on the roster as a backup. That's it, IMO. Why leaveTyrod in a meaningless game, risk injury and still not have an idea how far EJ had prgogressed? Yeah... People are definitely projecting past dysfunction on the current situation. I get it. It's easy. It's fun. It drives readership. But, let's see how Whaley does. This offseason is the make or break time for him.