Kirby Jackson

Easy one for me. Keon Coleman. He was about my 15th favorite WR in the draft (maybe lower). His lack of separation at the college level terrifies me. Apparently it was rough find space for him in OTAs. I hope that I’m wrong and he’s a quality #2 or 3.

The point remains, who’s getting that number 1 corner now? The answer is “someone that’s never seen them with less ability than Diggs.” It’s just a part of the equation that some want to avoid.

I just have a feeling that it won’t be the Chiefs this year. They should be there. My guess is Cincy or Baltimore. I don’t think we have enough weapons. I don’t trust Miami. Houston will come back to earth a little. The Jets are phonies.

Stop gaslighting and post the quotes that you’re claiming… If you like this WR room, I’m happy for you. If you think that they are good, you aren’t following what other teams have at the position. MVS was good enough to get 42 targets, 5th on the Chiefs. He got 1 more than Noah Gray. I agree that Samuel and Shakir are somewhere between 2 & 3. They’re playing as 1 & 2 (with Coleman in a similar place). All of those guys are between the 50th - 100th best WRs in the league.

My goodness. Why would you send 5 WRs out there if you have a bottom 3 WR room? The Bills need to play primarily from 12 this year. Kincaid is their best pass catcher. We have depth because we have about 6 guys that could be 3-5 on other team’s depth charts (excluding the Bears, we don’t have anyone above 4 there). Teams still had to gameplan for Diggs. That freed up so much space for everyone else. Without that threat the windows tighten. We are in a division with Sauce, Ramsey and Christian Gonzalez. Those guys are way better football players than the WRs lining up across from them. I am not trying to be doom and gloom. I’m being a realist. The Bills are absolutely a bottom 3 WR room as of today. Can they outperform that? Sure. They can play well and be bottom 10. They can end up a top 3 TE room and a top 10 RB room. If all of that happens they are okay. They can address the top of the WR depth chart next year. They have an elite QB that covers mistakes. Just because Josh is amazing doesn’t mean that the WRs are. I never said that anyone couldn’t get better. I said that as of today that’s who they are. Please find quotes from me saying, “guys can never get better.” Post them here…

Omg, no. I have read plenty of Cosell. So if he’s a “top of tier 2 guy” he’s 3 levels (at least) higher than anyone currently on the roster. It’s not debatable 😂😂 I agree that it will be up to Brady to scheme them open. That’s the corner that the Bills have backed themselves into by entering July with a bottom 3 WR room. I laugh when people say, “he schemed guys open at LSU.” Jefferson and Chase were his top 2 WRs!! Lol, I could have schemed them open. We will see if he can take a bottom 3 WR room and turn them into a bottom 10 group. It’s possible but on paper they aren’t close to there now.

…with every single guy experiencing more defensive attention than they have in their careers. Expect less space and better players to be across from you. If Diggs was commanding all of the attention, it’s getting pushed to a bunch of guys with less talent than Diggs. That’s really not debatable.

Well, it’s obviously an important reason for the others success. If Diggs was taking the attention of 2 guys (usually including the team’s number 1 CB) someone needs to be doing that for everyone else to have the space that they previously had. My question for you is who is taking the double team?

Who’s doing this now?

No, he is not. He is a TE. When he gets franchise tagged it will be as a TE. It’s the Jimmy Graham argument. Kincaid is the most prominent pass catcher on the roster. He is a TE. He will play some from the slot. He’s an important part of the passing game. He is not a WR. The Bills pass catchers and the Bills WRs are not the same thing. We continue to insert Kincaid, Cook, and to a lesser degree, Knox into the conversation to prop up our poor WR room. We have a good TE group, an average RB group, and a bottom 3 WR room. Our pass catchers are definitely bottom 10 and very likely bottom 5. Our QB is top 2.

Yep, again, different topic. When we discuss the “Kansas City Wide Receivers” we should discuss the “Kansas City Wide Receivers.” If we want to discuss the passing game, we can talk Mahomes/Kelce/Reid. This thread was about the Bills wrs. Some turned it into a conversation about the passing game. Those things are different.

I don’t disagree. The point remains. When talking about “the Bills WRs” we shouldn’t be talking about “the Bills TE.” That’s a different conversation. This conversation is about “the Bills WRs.”

This thread has been interesting because some of the people defending the WR ROOM have talked about TE, Josh, Brady, etc… 😂 Yes, the Bills have some things to like on offense. They have a top 2 QB. Their OC led arguably the greatest college offense in history. They have a young TE that appears to be a future pro bowler. Their WRs are at, or near, the bottom of the league. That’s all true. When talking about the WR ROOM there is no need to talk about the QB, OC, TEs or RBs. They are not WRs.

I think that subtracting Morse, Davis, Diggs and adding Coleman, Claypool and Samuel is a net loss. We keep looking at what they brought in but without what they replaced (thanks @HappyDays for saying it so much more succinctly). In terms of the guys, Kincaid was a swing at an elite player. He was the first TE off the board that they traded up for. Most thought that he’d be gone by the time that they picked. He was productive as a rookie and showed flashes of potential to be one of the league’s best TEs. We will see what that looks like as the primary pass catcher in year 2. He’s the exception imo. It’s well documented on here that Coleman wasn’t my guy. I am terrified by his lack of separation. Obviously I’m hoping he turns into a good (or hopefully great) player. I just can’t be convinced that he is that and I don’t believe that the Bills think that either (at least that he’s a future number 1). If they felt that he was that guy, they wouldn’t have traded down twice. He was the 8th WR drafted. The Bills probably felt similarly about a bunch of receivers and would take which ever one was left. The Bills are positioned to get better next offseason for sure. I think that they will need another edge (unless Solomon comes on) and a WR at the top of the depth chart. They don’t need another guy they need “the” guy. Let’s hope that they don’t waste this year because they didn’t do enough at WR. Also: Claypool has a ton of talent and is a waste. My buddy that’s a scout with the Bears told me what a terrible teammate he was. His quote, “we paid him to stay home and got better.” If he keeps his head on straight he can be as good as Davis was. I just think that the odds of that are < 20%.

Fair Kincaid was a swing at an elite player. The rest of them are meant to be role players. I’m including Coleman here. The Bills DESEPERATELY needed a WR at the top of the depth chart. They traded down twice and picked the 8th WR in the draft. That doesn’t scream, “we think this guy is a difference maker.” They’ve made medium FA moves in McGovern and Samuel because they let bigger investments in those areas go (Morse and Diggs). I’d argue that the commitment to surrounding Josh with elite players is actually going backwards despite them allocating some resources over the last couple of drafts. They still haven’t addressed the top of the WR depth chart.

Don’t we have this thread on the 1st page already? Yes, they’re inexperienced. That’s a nice way of saying “underwhelming.”

Well said!! If you inserted someone at the top of the depth chart (1 of the big 3 from the draft) or a trade (Aiyuk, Higgins) you’d be okay. That would be an average WR room. They missed at the top and now they’re forcing everyone to have more responsibility than their skill sets warrant (at least at this point).

KC - Rice was a 2nd and productive, Toney former 1st, Hollywood former 1st, Worthy 1st, Moore former 2nd, etc… the investment is different. Chargers - McConkey & Coleman is a wash at this point (I preferred McConkey). Johnston had a rough rookie year but they expect big things. They are also in the bottom 3 but with higher upside. Den - Better Pitt - Pickens is so much better than everyone else that we have. The rest is a wash. NE - Bourne and Douglas is better but they are also near the bottom. NYG - Nabers is a stud. We talked about giving up an additional 1 plus to try to get that guy. He’s way better than anyone we have. Similar to Pickens. GB- we don’t belong in that conversation. That’s who we are hoping to be. They went committee but were right with all of their guys. We are in wait and see to hope that we can be a lesser version of them. Again, there are some others that aren’t good. The Bills are absolutely in the bottom 3 as of today. I said that I didn’t want to dig up the WR data but alas… (prior to this draft): Since 2018 (Josh draft) the Bills have spent 2739.8 draft value pts on 6 DL; they’ve allocated 144.1 draft value points to 7 WR. If you include Diggs that’s 924.1 points. That’s an average DL draft spot of pick 44. It’s an average WR spot of 177 (96 w Diggs). The Bills continue to allocate their best resources to the defense.

I just have a different philosophy than Beane. If I had Josh Allen, my focus would be on his weapons and protection. That’s where I’d spend and that’s where I’d invest my prime draft assets. They haven’t done that. I’ve posted the data on here before but don’t feel like looking it up. Their philosophy has been, “if I have Josh Allen he will cover holes.” My philosophy would be, “if I have Josh Allen, let’s turbocharge him and worry about everything else later.” You will win BECAUSE of Josh Allen. If you throw 97, don’t spend a lot of time working on your average curveball. Try to turn 97 into 102.

The problem is that it isn’t a position where all 5 guys are the same. The Bills depth is fine. They stink at the top of the depth chart. That’s a problem. They may not have a top 60 WR on the roster!! They may end up their statistically but, for example, the Bears have 3 WRs, unequivocally better than our best. The Bills WRs are at or near the bottom of the league. Perhaps they outperform that but I’m not holding my breath. When you start taking number 3’s and running them out there against Sauce or Ramsey it isn’t good. These guys will see attention that they’ve never seen because they’ve been pushed up the depth chart.

We’ve reached peak offseason. On paper, the Bills have a bottom 3 WR group. They could be last. If you added Aiyuk (for example) they’re still in the bottom half of the league. The reason that we all like the depth is because they have like 5 number 3’s. It’s fine for our fandom to overshadow our objectivity. Pretending that this group is good on June 24th is just not realistic. Hopefully they way overperform expectations and end up an average group. They will have every opportunity to succeed with a top 2 QB delivering the ball.

I think that I have 2 years starting from this August (although I may be confusing that with my new entrance at my house 😂). They were similar deals. Either way, I'm confident that they won’t extend that 0% beyond when they start playing there. People will have smaller PSLs in the future but smaller windows without interest. I imagine that will frustrate people that don’t pick their seats until next summer (or whatever).

This process is going to take an eternity though 😂😂. What they’re going to run into are a bunch of pissed of people when the 0% window has like 4 months instead of 2 years.

It’s going to have to be over but I’m not sure that it will be 😬

This makes sense based on what I saw. The only thing I contend is the “dwindling sales.” There are 3,000 less seats in the east club than in the current sideline clubs. The Founders Club is smaller than the current indoor clubs. I do agree that a lot of suites downgraded to Founders. The midfield clubs are a new animal but there will be enough people upgrading to those and sideline people moving towards those. The Bills will have zero trouble filling the clubs (based on size alone). At LEAST 70% of the people will stay (typical retention now is like 95-97%). Figure another 20% move into a cheaper location and the stadium remains full.