Kirby Jackson

Bro, you look ridiculous. 😂😂 You’ve said multiple things in this thread that weren’t true and been called out every time. We tell the truth around here. It’s one thing to be wrong and get called out. We have all had that. It’s a whole different level when you keep pushing your chips in, falling further and further into the hole that you dug. That’s where you’re at. Go back through this thread and read every single interaction that we have had.

Where? 😂😂 Are you talking about me saying that “if Coleman is good and Shakir develops, they can be average?” That isn’t saying what’s GOING to happen. That’s what I HOPE happens. Come on man, you’re better than that.

He played with a top 3 TE all time and a top 3 WR all time. He had a good OL. He had Corey Dillon in his prime. He had elite slot receivers. He went to Tampa and had Evans and Godwin. Brady had at least 3 pass catchers that are in, or going to, the HOF. Moss, Gronk and Evans are either in Canton or going.

Still not seeing where I said that I knew what would happen next year. That’s what you claimed earlier. Please quote it…You’re embarrassing yourself. It’s time to bow out. Stop swinging because I’m going to hold you accountable to everything that you’ve said that isn’t true. I will let you off the hook if you walk away.

I hope that you’re right. I don’t love their philosophy. I believe you give Josh the stars. They believe, Josh will just elevate average guys. We will see I guess…

Yep, that’s it. I’m not sure that you understood the task. Now where did I say what would happen this year?

Okay, he was tied for 105th in catches with 39. He caught 20 of those 39 after Brady took over. Please quote where I said that I knew what would happen this year. Add it right here for everyone to see. One of us isn’t telling the truth and it’s not me… Be better Oh, it’s going to have to. Do I think that group stack up with other good offenses? Of course not. I like all 3 players but with the exception of Kincaid they are nice role players not lead guys. That’s the issue. The top of the depth chart needs to be filled. Hopefully they will grow this year, maintain and get an alpha in 2025.

Oh, I think he will be at 85+. I’m not arguing that he will be thrown the ball more. He needs those targets. I was just saying that, “he didn’t have volume last year.” He didn’t. If he can be as productive on double the targets, he will be a really good player.

Bro, you’re tripling down?!? He was thrown the ball 45 times last year. What is a better volume stat for a WR than targets? 🤣🤣 That was tied with Nick Westbrook Ikhine and 1 behind Luke Musgrave. I believe that was 113th. Just stop or I’m going to continue dragging you and your false information. For the 100th time, no one knows what will happen this year. What we do know, is he was effective with 45 balls thrown his way. Stop arguing with facts.

Gotta love, “Josh it’s up to you to raise the level of skill around you.” That’s fireable imo. I’ve been a huge Beane supporter since he got here. I’ve been lukewarm on McDermott. Phillosophically, I differ from them greatly on that. If Josh Allen were my QB, I would invest every prime asset I could in surrounding him with elite talent. You’re going to win BECAUSE of him. Their philosophy is that it doesn’t matter who’s around him because we have him. That hasn’t worked to date. Please don’t talk about the assets that they invested in Diggs, etc.. I don’t want to have to pull the data again of the assets allocated to the DL over WR. It’s disgusting. Depending on how this year goes, I would be okay pulling the plug on this regime. Lots of people could win 11 games and 1 playoff game with Josh Allen. I’m ready to try something different. That’s not good enough with that unicorn playing QB. You’ve failed him.

One guy was voted as a team captain and recognized as the hardest worker on the team. The other was paid to stay home from his team. They improved when he went home. He’s a terrible teammate. Claypool had 77 yards and 1 TD last year. For perspective Sherfield had 86 yards and 1 TD. Before you say, “go back further” Claypool had 451 and 1 TD in 2022. Sherfield had 417 yards and 2 TDs. Why are we pretending that this guy is someone that he isn’t?

I’m tired man. Having a different opinion is great. Healthy debate is what makes this place fun. If you’re going to say something defend it and be specific. There are way too many posters now just talking out of their 🍑. Lastly, don’t make claims that can easily be fact checked. Certainly don’t double down on it. We all just need to be better around here.

This you? I jumped in when you said, “Shakir provided volume last year.” He didn’t. You then talked about it picking up when Gabe went backwards. It didn’t really. The ball was thrown to Gabe more than Shakir even under Brady. Shakir never had volume. He had 45 targets. No one questioned his efficiency. The question is, “will he be as good with significantly more targets and significantly more defensive attention?” We don’t know that answer. We do know that he hasn’t handled volume despite you claiming otherwise.

As of today, they are. That’s not really debatable. I think that Samuel can fill Gabe’s volume. I also think that he’s going to see a handful of carries. I’m an Ohio State fan and love the player. He’s more playmaker than pure WR. Shakir had 24 targets once Brady took over. That extrapolated is 58 targets on the year. As I said, he absolutely did not handle volume last year. Understand now?

I agree that they absolutely are primarily slot guys. I was simply saying that he offers a skill set that they do not currently have. I also think that you’re right, that it’ll be a few different guys down the field. If Coleman can be a more reliable Gabe, he will be a good pickup. Gabe’s issue was that he was so limited in the routes that he ran well. To this point, Coleman has similar struggles. He’s young though and has lots of upside.

Exactly!! I still think that the Bills win 11+ games and probably the division. I just don’t see them closer to a championship. Josh will need to be Superman but I fully expect him to be.

They’ll have to run some. The question is who? The Shakir point was a response to, “he handled volume last year.” He didn’t handle volume at all. He was very efficient but on a low target number. I like Shakir a lot and believe that he’s the best WR on the team. Saying that he had volume last year just isn’t true. Gabe wasn’t very good and I didn’t want him back. He did do a couple of things well (primarily get down the field when Josh broke free). We can make up for his production but can we offset his big play ability? That remains to be seen.

In terms of Gabe, the question was, “who now runs the 9 route?” Shakir had 45 targets!! What are you talking about that he handled volume??? Kincaid had 91 targets. If you take just the Brady games it was 40. If you extrapolate that across the season it’s 97 targets. The WR room last year wasn’t good enough. It was way better than this group. Now if Coleman is good and Shakir continues to develop they can be an average WR room. At the moment, they’re inarguably in the bottom 3. What are you talking about? Why wouldn’t he have been a 6th? He’s little and has short arms, but he’s quick, twitchy and productive. He would have more value on the Bills than on many other teams because we lack that skill set. Neither Shakir nor Samuel are twitchy route runners. They’re converted RBs that are good with the ball in their hands. You have to throw go routes on occasion. If you don’t throw the ball down the field you’re going to see 11 man boxes. It’ll be tough to run, tough to throw those quick screens that Brady likes and difficult for Josh to find space to take off. And before you say, “yeah but Samuel runs a 4.31” he has a career YPC of 10.7 yards.

Based on what? This isn’t just directed at you but I’m trying to understand how TO isn’t on every list. He’s 3rd all-time in yards (ahead of Randy Moss) and TDs. Anyone that doesn’t have TO I’d love to hear the reasoning (other than he was with the Bills for 1 year and wasn’t great here).

Yep, TO is a top 5 WR all-time. He is 3rd all-time in receiving yards and 3rd all-time in receiving TDs. WR is obviously the Bills biggest need. If it is “any guy in their prime” he’s obvious.

If it is the player in their prime (even if it wasn’t with the Bills) it is TO and Mario Williams. If it is their prime had to be with the Bills Moulds and Mario.

Yep. They’ve improved in a couple of areas (mainly size and run after the catch) but took a big step back elsewhere. Diggs was a surgeon as a route runner. They don’t have anyone with route running as a strength. Gabe was flawed but could run the 9. I’m not sure who is supposed to fill that role? One of my biggest gripes with this group is that I don’t believe that they can handle volume. To handle volume, you need to be a separator. Guys like Beasley and Diggs got the ball a lot because they were open. I think Kincaid will take some of that but not nearly enough. Coleman doesn’t appear to be a volume guy. He feels more like a guy that will catch some fades and crossers. Samuel will see a bunch of touches but I think it’ll be a combination of runs, screens and a few other routes I think that Washington / Ladd McConkey skill set is an important one. You need someone that can run those possession routes. Kincaid is going to have a ton of pressure on him because he is going to have to be that guy.

Specific to Malik Washington, he has a skill set that the Bills roster currently does not have. He’s incredibly twitchy and gets out of his breaks quickly. That was Diggs. He could find space and because of that could handle volume. It’s a little bit of Beasley. Washington is little but on this roster he had a chance to play and to climb the depth chart. He would be the best pure route runner on the team imo. He would have played over Hollins. I don’t treat PFF as the Bible but at the same time it’s as good as most. The point being that their list of the top 101 players isn’t a travesty. You could probably nitpick a handful of guys here or there. It’s not like the Bills had 4 or 5 guys that were screwed by not being on there. They had 1 guy make the list.

Not offended!! We actually agree that Deion Jones used to be really good. He’s now a PS guy on the worst team in the league. If he makes the team, fine, but he isn’t the same guy that went to the Pro Bowl in 2017. The 🗑️ part is about anybody wanting more warm bodies at WR. They have fine depth. That depth is just expected to start. I don’t need to add Chase Claypool to a camp battle with Shorter, Isabella and Hamler. We don’t need more trash in that room (especially a cancer like Claypool). The Bills need to address the top of the depth chart there, not the bottom. They are not okay at the position and throwing more scrub vets at it isn’t solving anything.

Panthers? 😂😂 Dionte Johnson, Thielen, Legette and Mingo is worse than what we have? 😂😂 Um, no, that’s not even up for discussion. Giants have Nabers & the Cards have MHJ. They have alphas that you need to account for. They are better because of that. Broncos - they are similar but slightly better. We can call Franklin and Coleman a wash. Sutton, Reynolds and Mims > Shakir, Samuel and Hollins. If Shakir keeps developing the Bills could be better than Denver. The Pats are similar but I have them ahead. Bourne is better than anyone that the Bills have as of today. Juju has had success. Baker and Polk are two bites at the apple with the same chance at success as Coleman. I think that most objective people would have the Pats over the Bills but it’s reasonable either way. The Chargers are in the same boat. They just added Chark (who some here wanted). I like McConkey over Coleman but the rest of the Bills over the Chargers. This could reasonably go either way.