Kirby Jackson

This is a topic that has been kicked around in countless threads this summer. The opinions seem to vary greatly. Figured we should have one place to discuss. It might be some interesting debate over these last few days before camp really kicks in. In terms of ranking, THIS IS NOT ABOUT FANTASY FOOTBALL. This is meant to be, “if the league drafted every WR tomorrow, at the same salary, what number would he be picked with?” I haven’t made my list yet but intuitively I feel like he’s probably somewhere between 25-30. Curious as to what others think…

Benford belongs on there. At worst, he should be honorable mention. That’s crazy. The Bills had the number 2 qb, #8 OT and #8 RB. The 70 execs didn’t rank another Bills player in the top 10 at their position.

You might be right. Lol, I was trying to be conservative but love your Giants call. That’s an 11+ win team. They’d have an elite QB and elite pass rush. That’s a winning formula.

I don’t want to speak for him but the Bills had like the 2nd fewest turnovers in history last year through the 16 games of the starters (or something like that). They also had the 2nd least sack yardage ever. That’s just not likely to be sustained. They will still probably be good in the sack department and could still minimize turnovers. It’s just not likely to be “as good as any team ever.” It’s EXTREMELY likely to expect some regression.

I think this is an interesting way to look at Josh’s greatness. If you were to go team-by-team and plug Josh Allen into their current roster, what would their record be? It’s a little tricky because Josh is highly compensated and a lot of teams couldn’t realistically have him AND their current roster. You get the point though. The Bills roster is pretty average. They have a great OL but otherwise most of the roster is mid. Josh could have 25+ teams as Super Bowl contenders IMO.

There’s this misconception that because the offense scored a lot of points, they were good everywhere. It’s beating a dead horse at this point but the receivers were not good. They blocked well and ran after the catch well. They were rarely open especially as they got further down the field. I think Samuel will bounce back. Moore and Palmer seem to be solid additions (I think Moore emerges as one of the people that Josh trusts most). This group is better than last year but that’s not a high bar despite the points that they scored. We shouldn’t expect a historic level of negative plays again. That will regress some. Hopefully the upgrades at WR will offset any regression. They’re still a bottom 5-8 group but have strong depth. If you ever injected a number 1 WR, the group would be good. They added a couple of guys that can get open which they did not have last year (hence all the screens). The offense should have more ways to beat you this year.

I like Shakir too. I don’t think that he’s better than Wilson because he isn’t. Garrett Wilson can be a great football player while the Jets are a bad football team. Both things can be true. ESPN polled 70 executives/coaches/scouts and asked them to rank the best player by position across the NFL. They voted, 24 year-old Garrett Wilson, as the 10th best WR in the NFL!! He’s the 2nd youngest WR in the top 10. He isn’t a “pretty good NFL WR.” He’s an elite young talent on a bad team. Wilson is a great young player. FWIW, 26 WRs received votes from these NFL employees. None of the 26 were Bills receivers.

The Benford deal may be the best contract of this regime. What a steal

Do you think Khalil Shakir is a better WR than Garrett Wilson? This is a rhetorical question (and I like Shakir). We don’t need to downplay our opponents and overplay our own guys. That doesn’t strengthen the point. It makes us look like homers and discredits other reasonable opinions. There isn’t a coach/scout/executive in the world that believes Shakir is a better WR than Garrett Wilson, because he isn’t. Garrett Wilson has PLAYED IN EVERY SINGLE NFL GAME!! Why should we assume that he will get hurt? That’s craziness. We get so hung up on these visions of what happened in the 1980’s. It’s 2025. Small receivers flourish!! Tyreek Hill, DeVonta Smith, Garrett Wilson, etc.. are all dominant players.

I get HBO Max free with my phone (AT&T)

So we are saying “if he gets hurt he won’t be good?” 🔥🔥🔥 take

Not bad company considering the QBs that he has started his career out with: You’re underrating Wilson. He’s a great player that has trash around him on offense.

What franchise QB is just hitting the market that you can throw money at? Darnold? That’s not how it works anymore. They don’t go to FA. You likely have to draft one. You can occasionally get lucky with a reclamation project that is cheap (see Baker Mayfield). If you draft one, the first thing you have to do is find them an elite WR. If you aren’t paying a franchise QB you have loads of cap space. You can win in the QBs rookie deal with the right high need talent around him (like the 49ers with Purdy) or the Chiefs with Mahomes. Imagine having an elite WR already? It is a no brainer and the perfect time to pay a WR.

What did the Vikings do when they signed Jefferson? When you don’t have a franchise QB or have a QB on a rookie deal is the PERFECT time to pay a number 1 WR.

When you have stars, especially at premium positions, you have to pay them. The quality of the rest of the team can’t stand in your way of that. You pay Myles Garrett, Maxx Crosby, Garrett Wilson, Justin Jefferson, Chase and Higgins, etc… There aren’t enough great players in football to not do that. Wilson is one of the top 5 or so most talented WRs in the NFL. The Titans decided to move on from AJ Brown and Henry in a similar spot. The Giants didn’t value Saquon. You need star players to win. The Eagles have them. The Chiefs have them. The Ravens have them. The Lions have them. The Bills have 1 (plus the OL).

I figured that this thread would be littered with Keon Coleman for most improved. Personally, I feel that’s some wishful thinking. The player he was last year looked so much like the player he was in college. I just don’t think he’s very good. IMO, he’s just a guy. Hopefully he takes a step forward but that video last week of him running routes was 😬. For me, most improved needs to be Cole Bishop. I don’t think he was very good last year but he has tools. He needs to take a step. The Bills bet on that. If he becomes that player, he and Rapp are a pretty good duo. I’d say that the most likely to improve is Ed Oliver. I think he has a Pro Bowl year this year. I love he and Sanders rushing on passing downs together. My sleeper is Javon Solomon. He is a better football player than he is a physical freak. I think he’s a 6+ sack guy. I’d lump Elijah Moore in here. The Bills will maximize his ability to run routes and he will prove to be a very valuable part of that offense. Most likely to regress for me is Connor McGovern. I think he’s really good. He was one of the best centers in football while playing there for the first time in years. I still think he will be good but maybe closer to 10 than top 5. The OL in general was outstanding last year. It feels like that has to regress a little. I hope I’m wrong. Milano and Taron feel too obvious to me. Both are veterans with a decent amount of mileage. A few years ago we all knew Hyde and Poyer would start to regress even if it was only a little. Those 2 guys fit that.

Nice job with this roster.

I was fortunate enough, in another lifetime, to spend quite a bit of time with Marv. Probably spent 20+ hours, just he and I. He is such an interesting and smart guy. Marv is so wise and was always giving life advice. I was in my early to mid 20’s. A couple of things stand out to me: - First, he asked me if I ever saw the Borat movie (this was right after it came out). I told him that I had. He and his wife had just gone the night prior and he said “it was a little crude for my tastes. I was quite uncomfortable when he was running around in that bikini contraption.” 🤣🤣 - Second, he said that he’s met 375,000 people that swear they were at the Comeback Game and stayed the whole time. - Third, he told a story about a guy (and I think he’s told this before) that he ran into one day and said, “remember me?” Marv gave him a puzzled look and the guy said, “a couple of years ago you were going down an escalator in O’Hare and I was going up. I yelled Go Bills to you.” 🤣🤣 - The last one that sticks out is when I asked him who the greatest player he ever saw was. He said, “Gale Sayers” without ANY hesitation. I said, “do you want to think about that?” He said, “No, it’s Gayle Sayers.” I asked him, “what about Bruce?” He said, “he was a damn good football player but Sayers is the best.” (Keep in mind this is probably 20 years ago so Brady was early into his career). Anyways, HBD Marv!!

Exactly. The teams are in a sold out situation. They really don’t care about people offloading some games. Ticketexchange, is a team sponsored, AND REVENUE SHARED, source. Teams literally get a cut of seats transacted on there. Lol, they aren’t staffed to have people scouring the internet in search of someone that sold a pair of seats 4 times in a year. 🤣🤣 In certain situations there may be teams that try to curtail people buying only to resell. That’s so much less common in 2025 than people think. That is more for one-off events like the Masters or a Taylor Swift concert. In those instances they really control who can go. One of the the things that fans probably don’t want to hear is that teams don’t care if access is extremely limited to big games. My cousin was complaining the other day because he wants to go to the Chiefs game but it’s too expensive. I said, “go to the Saints game or Bucs game.” He said, “well I don’t want to go to those as much.” No kidding. That’s why the tickets are more affordable for those games. Teams would probably crack down more on reselling if the pricing made it so that people could never go. They aren’t going to crack down because people can never go to see KC. They would say, “there are plenty of other games to pick from.” This is a bigger deal in other sports (think Yankees are in town, or the Leafs are playing in Buffalo, or the Lakers in MSG). The teams would say, “the benefit of committing to the season is that you ensure yourself the KC game at face value.” That’s literally the sales pitch. The dirty little secret is that they LOVE the fact that people can’t get into the best games for a reasonable price. That’s how they sell packages and season tickets.

Yep. Any weighting of WR isn’t going to help the Bills. They aren’t good at that position comparatively.

That’s probably true. They’ve certainly already cut the deals with the parties that they’ve worked with for a long time. They probably have 8-10 partners that they’re working with and have limited the number of total seats between them. I have a good friend that works for a company that’s the largest reseller on the college side. I’ll try to get some info from him as to how it’s being handled. On the college side they just make giant donations to the athletic department and then buy from there. It’s kind of PSLish

They monitor on ticket exchange as well as other popular sites. It’s really easy (if they care). It is rare that they would care if someone is selling 2 or 4 to a game. That’s why they have those platforms. I think that the reseller issue is a MUCH bigger issue for concerts and other 1 off events. They artificially change the market and limit demand so much.

They would already be season ticket holders. Resellers are more stable during a downswing. Lots of the current base going through are already resellers. Surely they won’t be kicked out. Now, they may limit them some but they won’t revoke their seats. Those people are stable during a downswing. If, and when, the Bills cool off, PSLs and tickets will be dumped. That happens all of the time. The resellers don’t dump in those times. In fact, they may add more. In exchange, you allow them to keep what they have when you’re hot. You can’t just go to them when the tickets have no demand. During the drought, the Bills had thousands and thousands of seats owned by resellers. My assumption is that they still own a lot.

I think that the perception of resellers is a little misunderstood. In the 90’s there were guys outside with signs trying to sling tickets. Over the last 20 years it has changed dramatically. The teams partner with large, national, professional resellers to create another avenue of distribution. The Bills (and pretty much every team), have some partners that own large chunks of season tickets with only the intent of resale. When I worked in sports, we were one of the first teams to embrace it. Roughly 10% of our season tickets were to resellers. I don’t think it’s quite that high here because of the size of an NFL stadium but I think it’s reasonable that 5k or so belong to resellers. Maybe they gave a deal like 100 PSLs for the price of 75? Resellers want to buy low rows, seats on the low end of a price break, close to midfield, etc… Teams will usually allocate some of that prime real estate to them in exchange for offloading the toughest to move inventory (upper corners, etc). It used to be an adversarial relationship 20 years ago or so but that’s changed. It makes WAY more business sense, for both sides, to embrace it (at least to a degree depending on demand). These resellers keep you stable during a down swing in demand and in exchange you reward them when the demand is high. With all of the websites out there now, offering protection, it has changed the game. There are still some antiquated feelings on the secondary market but it’s not going away.