sherpa

Thanks for clearing that up. If you want to ask a question on a message board, it saves time if you ask the question and indicate who it might be directed at. To answer your question, the city tried to move the event to an area that would make it much easier to control. That petition was opposed by the ACLU and the Rutherford Institute and struck down on Friday, the day before the event. I am unaware of any "stand down" orders from the scores of law enforcement jurisdictions, (probably over 20), from what I saw. Gross ignorance. Other than walking up the Marshall Law ladder, your post demonstrates ignorance.

Are you asking me?

What would satisfy you? I can write about it from its genesis. A black high school kid said the statue offended her. Momentum developed to remove the statue and change the name of the park. Most of us, me included, thought such a thing was stupid. This is a college town. For those who have never lived in college towns, they are always a bit weird. So, by a one vote margin, the city council decided to remove the statue. No big deal. Enter the national wacko Nazi white supremacy group and the equally loony left wingers. Give them a location to face off. This town did everything possible to prevent it, including losing a court petition to keep them apart. Bottom line is that there is no possible way to prevent people who are determined to hurt, and driven by hatred, to stop what they are going to do. Sad as the loss of one life is, and the injuries, this is nowhere near the events of the Rodney King thing in LA, or countless other events. No property damage. No looting. Long response shortened,... I am on the opposite side of the political spectrum form the Charlottesville City Council, but they did their absolute best to avoid this.

I don't think you have any clue to make such claims, but that is normal for folks of your ilk. Married on Treasure Island, (both Naval Officers), lived and worked in the Bay area for the first few years of our marriage. My wife ended her nursing career because her income with mine would put us over then 50% state and federal marginal rate with minimal day care, so we decided to leave instead. Third greatest decision I've ever made. If you want to throw stones about bad local gov, anyone in California should be the last, but oh well. I do remember on particularly funny thing though, and you brought up the jurisdiction. The City Council of Berkeley decided to vote into law an ordinance that would prevent any Berkeley police officer from responding to any violence originating at a protest at UC Berkeley. Someone had the temerity to ask what would happen if a protest on campus turned violent and lives were at stake. The city stated they would rely on neighboring municipalities to provide police response. A day later, those "neighboring municipalities" stated that they would tell the Berkeley City Council to screw themselves, and would not respond. The rest of the country is quite interested in following legislative and judicial examples from the Golden State. God Bless.

I haven't given you any whatever, whatsoever. I have responded to your posts, and your posts don't display a knowledge of what happened, before or during. To your latest, a city is not run by judges. Certainly not this one, but that is another civics class. What you have stated is condemnation of how this was handled based on an accusation of how the state of Virginia should have learned from Berkeley. You have absolutely no idea what their strategy was. nor what it was based on. Nothing. You have no idea how many jurisdictions were involved, state wide, and there were well over ten, probably over twenty. You, evidently, had no idea that a judge denied the petition to move this to an area that could have allowed authorities to keep the two idiotic groups, determined to incite, away from each other. If you invite a stranger who is obsessed with hatred to come into your home with an incendiary device, and you then invite someone to join in with a match, and further deny a petition to prevent it, don't scream at the firefighters who try to put out what is inevitably going to happen. And regarding where I live, the greatest decision I have ever made for my family was to leave the great state of California. Charlottesville is a tremendous place to live. Named the best place in North America a few years back by some silly survey. Trouble comes when lunatics use it as a spot to demonstrate their lunacy.

Geez. You are so smart. It's really unfortunate that the judge who rejected the city plea that the "event" be moved to an area where this could have been done, and which was the exact intent of the plea, didn't consult you. But, alas, the judge did what he did for the reasons he did. Instead, it was allowed to occur in an area where such separation was impossible. Market yourself to district judges as a "riot preventer," because they haven't figured it out yet.

I always get a kick out of this message board nonsense. You have no idea "orders" or rules of engagement were in place. You have no idea what could have happened if some other strategy was used. If there's one thing I've learned as I've watched this and many other events unfold, some of which I've been very familiar with, it's that people judging the performance of other people, often professional people, is folly. And the claim that I "know" because I "drove by the event" is false. What I know is that both sides recruited people from far distant areas and attempted to start a riot. Simple enough?

And I fully understand that. This is the classic scenario in our recent past. You let two groups assert their 1st amendment rights, knowing what each side wants to do is provoke a conflict. Then the predictable occurs and the finger pointing starts at those who are supposed to react within a boundary that is nearly impossible. The "Goldilocks" only response, knowing that no matter what you do, with five major networks scrambling for ratings, there is always going to be someone, some "expert," claiming how it should have been done different. It is nonsense. This situation has been known for well over a month. The city tried to get the location moved to assist the police in an effort to have better control. A judge rejected that on Friday. This clown Jason Kessler, the hate monger who is behind organizing this event here, has been at it for many months. His recruiting all of these hate groups to descend on this town is an egregious attempt to incite a riot. My reaction is because I saw what was done and I heard the pleas to get through it peacefully. When I heard about the disgusting torch lit march through the University of Virginia grounds on Friday night, for no apparent reason other than to flame the passions, I knew these folks were up to a lot more than asserting free speech. When I drove by the area at 9 or so, it looked like a war zone. Barricades and police lined up 20' apart with automatic weapons. When I returned home through it at 12, the white supremacists hate mongers were marching to the protest site, and I could hear their chants and see their idiotic "uniforms." The point is that if you orchestrate a riot, and seem to do everything necessary to ensure one comes about, you ought not get too critical of the way normal folks try to stop it. One dead, 19 or so injured by a Hitler fan from 1000 miles away. It could have been a lot worse, and I will join others in my area thanking our law enforcement people, for not going in there with the full force that could have led to a disaster.

Actually, that's not a problem. Different subject, but not a problem.

It doesn't represent any community, and it's quite a nice statue.

Ya. The smart thing to do would have been to open fire on gun toting white supremacists, and those opposing them. No doubt that would have limited the fatalities to one woman killed by a vehicle driven by an Ohio punk who is a Nazi sympathizer, and a teen load of injuries. They should have opened up on them, but they didn't because the police were "afraid of the guns," and "terrified." Shooting makes so much more sense. Fortunately, people who post such nonsense are not in a position to carry out their desires, and have little patience for hearing the other side of the story, which always takes time. Fortunately for all of us.

The "law" spent weeks trying to stop it, or more accurately, trying to prevent it from happening. Your claim is complete bull ****.

Because it shows gross, intentional ignorance of events that led to this, warnings that were issued, what really happened, what was warned would happen, how law enforcement actually responded, and thank God there weren't more casualties given the now apparent gross intent to incite a riot. This thing has been going on for well over a month. Local law enforcement gave every option to allow this to go peacefully. I drove by this area at 9:10 and it looked like a law enforcement war zone. I've never seen anything like it in this area, or anywhere else for that matter, that experience includes a number of times visiting Tiananmen Square. When I retraced that route at 12:30 on my way home, I saw hundreds of people carrying hate signs. body paint, disgusting "uniforms," and chanting hatred backed up by idiotic, moronic posters. I witnessed the police protecting cross walks and letting them go. They were looking for trouble, and blaming the folks who were responsible for protecting both sides, when both were spoiling for a fight and hiding behind "rights" never intended to support hatred and idiocy is idiotic.

This is an incredibly stupid post.

This freedom of speech thing is an oft discussed red herring.he fact is that people came to our town 1. With weapons. 2. With obviously hateful posters. I saw them as they "paraded" with this crap to the "protest area." 2. Looking to cause trouble. 3. Used hate speech in an effort to incite. 4. Senselessly lit up goofy torches and intentionally marched through the University of Virginia campus on Friday night for no other reason than to incite. They got what their actions clearly invited and now three people are gone and a number are injured. Forgive me if I shed no tears over their free speech complaints.

We need to build a wall around our city.

You think that's funny? Do you get it?

This is occurring in a really small area, and unfortunately for the rest of us, taking care of a number of things, often charitable, goes on.

Nonsense. This is intentional provocation, and that is not in any way an intent to excuse the response.\ But ........You recruit thousands to show up in a small town with disgusting, racial, hate filled innuendo as a motive, then you show up on the University of Virginia grounds on a Friday night with torches, you are either a moron or an instigator. I think both. Freedom of speech has no greater county on earth than Jefferson's Albemarle, where this is. Intentional provocation has its own, predictable results, especially when both sides have recruited for months from outside this area.

I lived near Berkeley as well, and we can go there if you want. Your assertion that I am "upset because they've inconvenienced" me is idiotic, untrue and silly. I was not upset at all about the "inconvenience." What bothers me is the imported nature of this, and it is extremely obvious to those of us who live here. This is an overweight, tattooed, stupid looking group of folks who have taken over our town for a weekend. Still, that is not the point. This is a hate group that recruited similarly thinking haters and brought them here. Got it? Disgusting.

I'm not sure what Sabato is upset about, but I can tell you what the rest of us are. I live here. I had the "opportunity" to drive through this crap on the way home from a volunteer project. It looks like a war zone, and totally driven by these creepy white supremacists who have decided to make this ground zero. I watched as the marched to their protest site. Not intentionally. I was stopped as they slobbered across a major road. Same demographic, and I saw hundreds of them. Mid to late 20's. Male, but for a few. Overweight. Face makeup. Posters. Looked like total losers. It looked like nothing more than an imported hate group.

If ever there was a need for a press conference, this is it. The new regime needs to explain to the historical fan base what this is all about.

If there was money to be made, a third party would have thought of this. Actually, many have, and failed. There isn't. Ego thing, and good for them.

Not the Dolphins. American never painted an airplane for a team. American had a history of polished aluminum only. No paint, and would not do that. I made a bit of quality of life money off those charters, so I'm quite familiar.

If it was that easy, everyone would do it. I've done a few charters, including the (New Jersey Nets) to London, and all the players sat in first. Reconfiguring isn't nearly as easy as you suggest, nor is "overseas," to use your term. Flying "overseas" requires an ETOPS certified airplane and crew. ETOPS means extended overwater equipment and pilot qualifications. Very, very expensive. Think of 1.5 times the cost. I have no problem with your logic and intent. I have a significant disagreement with how much money you think this costs over normal domestic Sat/Sunday charters. Their expenses will be huge. What Dolphins plane? They always used American, at least for the last 16 years. They got a normal 757.