sherpa

I always get a kick out of this message board nonsense. You have no idea "orders" or rules of engagement were in place. You have no idea what could have happened if some other strategy was used. If there's one thing I've learned as I've watched this and many other events unfold, some of which I've been very familiar with, it's that people judging the performance of other people, often professional people, is folly. And the claim that I "know" because I "drove by the event" is false. What I know is that both sides recruited people from far distant areas and attempted to start a riot. Simple enough?

And I fully understand that. This is the classic scenario in our recent past. You let two groups assert their 1st amendment rights, knowing what each side wants to do is provoke a conflict. Then the predictable occurs and the finger pointing starts at those who are supposed to react within a boundary that is nearly impossible. The "Goldilocks" only response, knowing that no matter what you do, with five major networks scrambling for ratings, there is always going to be someone, some "expert," claiming how it should have been done different. It is nonsense. This situation has been known for well over a month. The city tried to get the location moved to assist the police in an effort to have better control. A judge rejected that on Friday. This clown Jason Kessler, the hate monger who is behind organizing this event here, has been at it for many months. His recruiting all of these hate groups to descend on this town is an egregious attempt to incite a riot. My reaction is because I saw what was done and I heard the pleas to get through it peacefully. When I heard about the disgusting torch lit march through the University of Virginia grounds on Friday night, for no apparent reason other than to flame the passions, I knew these folks were up to a lot more than asserting free speech. When I drove by the area at 9 or so, it looked like a war zone. Barricades and police lined up 20' apart with automatic weapons. When I returned home through it at 12, the white supremacists hate mongers were marching to the protest site, and I could hear their chants and see their idiotic "uniforms." The point is that if you orchestrate a riot, and seem to do everything necessary to ensure one comes about, you ought not get too critical of the way normal folks try to stop it. One dead, 19 or so injured by a Hitler fan from 1000 miles away. It could have been a lot worse, and I will join others in my area thanking our law enforcement people, for not going in there with the full force that could have led to a disaster.

Actually, that's not a problem. Different subject, but not a problem.

It doesn't represent any community, and it's quite a nice statue.

Ya. The smart thing to do would have been to open fire on gun toting white supremacists, and those opposing them. No doubt that would have limited the fatalities to one woman killed by a vehicle driven by an Ohio punk who is a Nazi sympathizer, and a teen load of injuries. They should have opened up on them, but they didn't because the police were "afraid of the guns," and "terrified." Shooting makes so much more sense. Fortunately, people who post such nonsense are not in a position to carry out their desires, and have little patience for hearing the other side of the story, which always takes time. Fortunately for all of us.

The "law" spent weeks trying to stop it, or more accurately, trying to prevent it from happening. Your claim is complete bull ****.

Because it shows gross, intentional ignorance of events that led to this, warnings that were issued, what really happened, what was warned would happen, how law enforcement actually responded, and thank God there weren't more casualties given the now apparent gross intent to incite a riot. This thing has been going on for well over a month. Local law enforcement gave every option to allow this to go peacefully. I drove by this area at 9:10 and it looked like a law enforcement war zone. I've never seen anything like it in this area, or anywhere else for that matter, that experience includes a number of times visiting Tiananmen Square. When I retraced that route at 12:30 on my way home, I saw hundreds of people carrying hate signs. body paint, disgusting "uniforms," and chanting hatred backed up by idiotic, moronic posters. I witnessed the police protecting cross walks and letting them go. They were looking for trouble, and blaming the folks who were responsible for protecting both sides, when both were spoiling for a fight and hiding behind "rights" never intended to support hatred and idiocy is idiotic.

This is an incredibly stupid post.

This freedom of speech thing is an oft discussed red herring.he fact is that people came to our town 1. With weapons. 2. With obviously hateful posters. I saw them as they "paraded" with this crap to the "protest area." 2. Looking to cause trouble. 3. Used hate speech in an effort to incite. 4. Senselessly lit up goofy torches and intentionally marched through the University of Virginia campus on Friday night for no other reason than to incite. They got what their actions clearly invited and now three people are gone and a number are injured. Forgive me if I shed no tears over their free speech complaints.

We need to build a wall around our city.

You think that's funny? Do you get it?

This is occurring in a really small area, and unfortunately for the rest of us, taking care of a number of things, often charitable, goes on.

Nonsense. This is intentional provocation, and that is not in any way an intent to excuse the response.\ But ........You recruit thousands to show up in a small town with disgusting, racial, hate filled innuendo as a motive, then you show up on the University of Virginia grounds on a Friday night with torches, you are either a moron or an instigator. I think both. Freedom of speech has no greater county on earth than Jefferson's Albemarle, where this is. Intentional provocation has its own, predictable results, especially when both sides have recruited for months from outside this area.

I lived near Berkeley as well, and we can go there if you want. Your assertion that I am "upset because they've inconvenienced" me is idiotic, untrue and silly. I was not upset at all about the "inconvenience." What bothers me is the imported nature of this, and it is extremely obvious to those of us who live here. This is an overweight, tattooed, stupid looking group of folks who have taken over our town for a weekend. Still, that is not the point. This is a hate group that recruited similarly thinking haters and brought them here. Got it? Disgusting.

I'm not sure what Sabato is upset about, but I can tell you what the rest of us are. I live here. I had the "opportunity" to drive through this crap on the way home from a volunteer project. It looks like a war zone, and totally driven by these creepy white supremacists who have decided to make this ground zero. I watched as the marched to their protest site. Not intentionally. I was stopped as they slobbered across a major road. Same demographic, and I saw hundreds of them. Mid to late 20's. Male, but for a few. Overweight. Face makeup. Posters. Looked like total losers. It looked like nothing more than an imported hate group.

If ever there was a need for a press conference, this is it. The new regime needs to explain to the historical fan base what this is all about.

If there was money to be made, a third party would have thought of this. Actually, many have, and failed. There isn't. Ego thing, and good for them.

Not the Dolphins. American never painted an airplane for a team. American had a history of polished aluminum only. No paint, and would not do that. I made a bit of quality of life money off those charters, so I'm quite familiar.

If it was that easy, everyone would do it. I've done a few charters, including the (New Jersey Nets) to London, and all the players sat in first. Reconfiguring isn't nearly as easy as you suggest, nor is "overseas," to use your term. Flying "overseas" requires an ETOPS certified airplane and crew. ETOPS means extended overwater equipment and pilot qualifications. Very, very expensive. Think of 1.5 times the cost. I have no problem with your logic and intent. I have a significant disagreement with how much money you think this costs over normal domestic Sat/Sunday charters. Their expenses will be huge. What Dolphins plane? They always used American, at least for the last 16 years. They got a normal 757.

As has been pointed out, there are significant expenses involved in owning an airplane vs chartering one, so you can't simply subtract the cost (10), minus the normal charter season cost, (4), and claim that all you have to do is make up the difference, (6), and you are in the money. I have no idea where they are going to get their crew. There are not a lot of 767 people hanging around, and you are now going to take on their training expenses. If I was Kraft, I'd be extremely involved in making sure he was getting good folks. Basing it in Providence makes sense for the Pats, but not for a chartered 767. Unless they have already structured agreements, like Caribbean trips from there during the offseason, there are going to be a lot of ferry flights to get it where it needs to be, and even then, it is extremely expensive to for it and its crew to sit around for the return, so there's another ferry. Anyway, these charter things are really inefficient and expensive. That's why the airlines are getting out of them. With the total scheduled airline structure in place and layers and layers of protection, an airline makes sense. If there's something that goes wrong in this operation, maintenance, de-icing as Marv's neighbor pointed out, (would result in a huge delay since they couldn't rely on an airline's system), a pilot gets sick on Sunday morning or afternoon, or countless other things, there will be few protections. I, for one, can't wait until TAWMY 1 gets stuck somewhere.

I think chartering has gotten considerably more expensive this past year. American dropped six teams this year, and now only does Dallas, Carolina and Philadelphia, so there is less supply. United and Delta still do a considerable amount. This is going to be an extremely expensive operation. They really don't need hangar space, but a parked 767 is still mounting bills. Trump never hangared his 757. They will have contract maintenance, but what priority they get depends on who they contract with, and if they go with a non airline, they are going to have significantly less efficient service. If they do go with an airline, they won't be a number one priority. They'll probably hire some retired pilots who are current on the 767. Not cheap, but not much in the grand scheme. It would be a benefit in the free agent market, but certainly they don't need that right now.

By the rivers of my memory Ever smilin', ever gentle on my mind

It doesn't matter what disclaimer a carrier publishes, and they all have them. No published disclaimer protects a carrier from negligence, and negligence is a subjective matter decided by a third party. What generally happens in these cases is that the carrier decides whether is easier to pay someone off or defend its behavior in the legal system, and often times it may be completely innocent of negligence, but deems it not financially worth the effort. It isn't the 15 year old's fault that he/she is considered an unaccompanied minor by a particular airline. It is the result of years threatened lawsuits and a lot of expense.

Unfortunately, your "rant" would not be a successful defense in a lawsuit, and that is what drives this policy, not the relative intelligence and maturity of a 13/14/15/ year old, which varies dramatically. You are correct in your claim that unaccompanied minor rules for each airline are easily accessible, and intentionally so. That's why your Southwest example is so easy to dispute. They don't allow connections for unaccompanied minors They would have never taken this reservation. And again, people of all ages constantly do not make connections regardless of all the information and announcements. It happens every day and results in countless delays and is not specific to any age. The difference is that for adults, the carrier assumes no liability.

And this is exactly what I was referring to when I mentioned your post contained no information and no context. Your example, Southwest, does not allow connections for the example you suggest. This was not only a connection, it was an international flight requiring customs/immigration issues, and a connection. So...You bring up an example that would never happen because your example does not permit it. Regarding your 16 year old, and how talented he/she might be, I would be happy to hear you use that defense in a lawsuit, and there have been many, rand have cost the airlines millions. You may not be aware of this, in fact I'm quite sure you aren't, but there are people who do this intentionally, looking to settle out of court. Airlines have programs to defend themselves against this. Lawsuits are an industry.