hondo in seattle

One of the best kickers of the 1950s was Lou "the Toe" Groza, who was an All-Pro Tackle. He once kicked a 53-yard FG - setting the professional football record. He also kicked 23 FGs in a season, destroying the previous mark. In those days, "kicker" wasn't a position. It was something a player did as an additional duty. The best guy was picked from a pool of volunteers that may have included guards, LBers, QBs, whoever. The first big revolution in kicking was in 1965 when the Bills signed Pete Gogolak, who was a full-time kicker - in fact, the first soccer-style kicker in the pros. His 28 FGs in 1965 was an AFL record and he once kicked a 54-yarder. I'm sure the broke-in balls help but kickers have been getting better incrementally over the years with better conditioning, technique, cleats, groomed or artificial fields, and windless domed stadiums.

I know of an abandoned football field. I'd like to collect all the Cold Front jerseys, take them to that field, pile them up in a pyre, and burn them as an offering to the Gridiron Gods. And never see them again.

I did everything wrong... I wore my 17 jersey for every win this year and nearly every win last season. And then for the Patriots game, I wore my Kelly jersey. It seemed to me that the offense and defense weren't optimized, and something needed to change. I made the wrong change. Worse, I have a tradition going back many, many years of always eating wings on game day. But my wife made Chinese hot pot for a late lunch/early dinner here on the West Coast. Well, I ate a lot and wasn't hungry during the game, so I didn't cook the wings. I'm sincerely sorry for contributing to the bad juju. Think about it... All the things we did wrong detailed in this thread and we still only lost by 3. If we collectively hadn't screwed up, we would have ended the Cold Front contest with a 'W.'

I gotta admit that this is an interesting comparison. The numbers are pretty darn close. But I'll add this about our guy. He's quiet for parts of games when Cook is carrying the load or Brady is making dumbass calls. And one of the reasons Cook is carrying the load is because teams are defending Josh first with 2-high shells and - often - a spy. Yet despite teams being manically focused on stopping him, when Josh has to make a play to win a game, he does. Some of the announcers like to say he puts on his Superman cape when he needs to. He has the ability to will a team to victory. The stats don't capture that.

As someone who regrets missing the hippie era by just a tad, my philosophy is: Build bridges, not walls, Make love, not war. Kissing ass is better than kicking ass - except of course in war and football.

@PatsFanNH, for what it's worth, I appreciate you taking part in our discussion of the game. It's nice to get another perspective, especially when I haven't watched a Pats game yet this year.

I agree with almost all of this. But I'm not convinced we can't throw downfield. When we needed to throw downfield in the 4th against the Ravens, we did so with spectacular results. It's also worth noting that we play against a lot of nickel with two deep safeties. Opponents are more-or-less letting us beat them with Cook's 4 & 5-yard carries, but they're determined not to let us dice them up with Josh's deep throws. Having said all that, we don't have elite wideouts and I'm not sure the downfield passing game is Brady's forte. So maybe there's some truth to what you said. But Brady is good at taking what defenses give him and puts a lot of points on the board.

Yeah, if you look at the Bills regular season performance over the past few years, you'd expect that the team would have gone to at least one Super Bowl. Whether it's luck, coaching, injuries, or something less... it's maddening. But as someone who's lived through 2-win seasons, I'm enjoying the ride.

I agree Kurt's overly critical. And, yet, I think it would be great if Kurt and Josh watched tape together in the offseason. Perfection can never be achieved but it ought to be pursued.

Bills #2 offense (ypg) #11 defense (ypg) TO: +3 Pats #14 offense #16 defense TO: -3 I don't think the Pats can score enough running the ball to keep up with the Bills' offense. So can Drake Maye pass well enough against Bills (currently ranked #1 in pass D) to win the game? The older, traditional stats point to a Bills victory. The Bills have the better offense and are more likely to win the turnover battle.

Maybe, though I don't personally care. The individual awards are nice but what we all want, including Allen and Cook, is playoff success.

Bills 30 Pats 20

Good points - we're not far apart. Every game, I text a friend of mine something to the effect of "Our D sucks!!!" Then on Monday, I look at some numbers. Our yards allowed is above average. Points allowed is average. Our record is 4-0. So "sucks" might be a strong descriptor. But a team with SB aspirations ought to field a Top Five defense and we certainly aren't doing that. And like you, I think Beane, McD, and Babich all share some blame. Certainly getting back the walking wounded and suspended will help. But I don't know if that's enough to get us to the promised land.

Sensible argument, though personally I'm probably not ready just yet to ditch the Zubaz and table jumping. The nonsensical wackiness of it all kind of appeals to me. But I think if & when we do move on, it's because we've found something better. Long ago, Hugh Prather wrote, "If I do not go in a good direction, I go in a bad direction. I do not stand still." I think table jumping might fall in the "bad direction" category. But we can't/won't just walk away from table jumping, or Zubaz. I think these oddities need to be replaced with a good direction - new traditions that inspire us in some way and get the attention that some fans crave.

Since we've already made these our things, why drop them now? I despised table jumping at first because it made Bills fans look like drunken morons. But now I love the odd uniqueness of it. I hated Zubaz at first, too, and now I own a pair because it's the Billsy thing to do. I don't want the Bills to devolve into every other fanbase. IMHO, all the things that set us apart, including btw the immense charity giving, should be sustained and embraced.

Historically, teams starting 1-3 have about a 14% chance of making the playoffs. A team starting 1-4 has about a 6% chance. Though we have to consider that seasons are a game longer now, and Baltimore is more talented than the typical 1-3 (or 1-4) team. The Ravens are a tough matchup for the Bills and I'd prefer not to see them come January.

Josh Allen, Matt Milano, Dion Dawkins.

I agree with almost all of this. But I don't think he'll get 900 yards on his 50 catches. I don't see him averaging 18 ypc.

Do you think our front would appear more aggressive if it were more talented? In other words, is this a Beane failing or a McD failing? Or do you think Babich should call more blitzes, with the risks that involves? And considering we're giving up the fewest passing yards in the league, how much do we really need to worry about having an aggressive front four? It seems to me our main defensive problem is that we can't stop the run. And, for that, I blame both McD and Beane. McD likes to run nickel or dime something like 70 or 80% of the time. He's making a tactical decision to defend the pass first and makes defending the run a secondary priority. On top of that, missed assignments and tackles have been problems. Beane hasn't been getting us a lot of talent on the defensive side of the ball. It doesn't help that our two of our three best players - Milano and Oliver - are hurt. But even with them we have exactly zero All-Pro quality defenders. McD's scheme would work better if he had better players.

Can I choose "None of the above?"

Change the last letter of his last name from 'y' to 'i' and he belongs in Buffalo.

Honest question... In what way is the McD defense "outmoded"? It seems to me, as a non-expert in Xs and Os, that we may employ Cover 2 and Cover 3 more than other teams, but other teams play Cover 2 and 3 as well. McD hasn't invented anything new defensively, nor does he cling to some defensive scheme that otherwise went extinct 20 years ago. We can run through a list of McD tendencies: more zone, more nickel, and fewer blitzes than some other teams. But the defensive playbook he uses, and the schemes he employs, are - as far as I know - pretty standard.

Here's how McD defenses have performed over the years... The Bills D's have normally been in the Top Ten and been ranked as high as #1. So why is this a subpar year? If I had to apportion blame, I'd do it as follows: 1. Beane. This is not one of our best rosters. 2. Injuries & Suspensions. We're missing guys - including arguably our two best players. 3. Babich & McD. There have been some questionable defensive calls. And sometimes players are missing assignments which suggests they haven't been coached up adequately. On the other hand, they play hard and - given the talent on the field - may be overperforming statistically.

Fair point. But the Bills are still 11th in D despite a banged-up, average roster. And by taking the path of least resistance, opponents are not keeping up. Running against us has proven to be a losing strategy. We're outgaining and outscoring our opponents. To some extent, this is by design. When I was a kid, a nickel or dime defense was called "pass prevent." This year, we've been running nickel and dime about 80% of the time. In other words, we're almost always in "pass prevent."

When I look at the defensive roster, and then look at the injury report, I'm not sure how much we can expect or demand from Babich. We're not fielding a bunch of studs and yet we're currently ranked 11th in overall yards/game, #1 in passing yards/game, #31 in rushing yards/game. Clearly the run defense needs to improve. But I'm amazed that McD and Babich have transformed these misfits into the league's best pass defense. It's almost like McD and Babich are telling other teams, "Go ahead and run on us. You won't score enough points to keep up with Josh." And so far they're right.