hondo in seattle

"Everyone eats" is about making lemonade with lemons. It's what you default to when you don't have a dawg. But it's also the motto of a culture that stresses teamwork and team success over individual accomplishments. In that sense, I love it.

Out of curiosity, do you think we have the best roster in the AFC? If not, why would you fire your coach if we don't reach the SB? Have we ever had the best roster in the AFC? And I mean the guys who suited up, not guys on IR or suspended. You and I probably evaluate the talent on the team differently because since McD arrived, I've never thought Beane gave him a Lombardi-quality squad to work with. If we want McD to win a SB, we're asking him to overperform with what he's been given.

According to everyone's favorite website, PFF, White has a 61.1 grade for the season. He's ranked 78th out of 167 cornerbacks. Not a bad rank - for a backup. His grade for the Pats game was a miserable 47.8. Really hoping Max heals soon and proves himself more than worthy of a 1st round pick. I have fond memories of a younger Tre, with Hyde and Poyer, giving us one of the best defensive backfields in football. Yikes, those days are gone.

I understand your argument completely. Since Brady, in particular, this offense has scored a lot of points. But when I see Josh scanning the field with nowhere to throw, or when I examine our stats - I think a more brilliant coordinator would get even more points from this offense. I also, btw, appreciate that (1) Brady doesn't have the most elite WR corps, (2) tends to take what the defense gives him which makes sense, and (3) has given us an offense that produces a lot of points but - normally - not a lot of TOs. And that last point is a pretty neat trick. For all these reasons, I don't want Brady fired. Yet I believe our downfield passing attack is suboptimal. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think if Andy Reid or Sean Payton were hired as our passing game coordinator, we'd score more points. Hiring them is unrealistic, of course, but there are probably a few lesser names who could help Brady dial up a more potent passing attack than what we currently have for those days we need one. And because our defense isn't good, those days are going to happen.

Kincaid and Shakir are above average in yards of separation, and we know what Shakir can do with the ball in his hands. Still, I wouldn't call either the third triplet - the modern equivalent of Andre Reed. Here's an interesting, surprising separation stat. According to NextGen Stats, Stefon Diggs' average separation is 2.9 yards. Keon is also 2.9 yards.

Clearly, when someone says, "One always thinks the grass is greener on the other side, but most of the time it’s brown" they're making an observation based on experience. It's not measurable. There are no stats. But it is an opinion that many would agree with, and something to consider before moving on from Beane and McD. The future is unknowable, but my best guess is that if Pegs moved on from Beane and McD he'd probably replace them with guys who would turn out to be not as good. I'd rather (1) have Beane hire some new/better scouts so he can build a better roster, and (2) McD hire a passing game coordinator to help Brady scheme & call a better downfield passing game. When you have a team that sucks, you blow it up. When you have a good team, you keep fine-tuning it until it's the best.

I remember when GMs and coaches believed in the concept of triplets. Obviously, no team can have All-Pros everywhere. But if you wanted your offense to work, you needed to get a superior QB, WR, and RB. It's hard to defend an offense that has all of that. Back in the 90s, we had Kelly, Reed, and Thurm. Dallas had Aikman, Michael Irving, and Emmit Smith when they beat us in two Super Bowls. Today we have Allen, Cook, and ? As much as I like Cook, he's not in the Thurman-Smith class. And none of our wideouts come close to Michael Irvin or Andre Reed. Josh is why we win when we win. Not having enough weapons besides Josh is why we lose when we lose. (Not to mention a subpar defense).

One of the best kickers of the 1950s was Lou "the Toe" Groza, who was an All-Pro Tackle. He once kicked a 53-yard FG - setting the professional football record. He also kicked 23 FGs in a season, destroying the previous mark. In those days, "kicker" wasn't a position. It was something a player did as an additional duty. The best guy was picked from a pool of volunteers that may have included guards, LBers, QBs, whoever. The first big revolution in kicking was in 1965 when the Bills signed Pete Gogolak, who was a full-time kicker - in fact, the first soccer-style kicker in the pros. His 28 FGs in 1965 was an AFL record and he once kicked a 54-yarder. I'm sure the broke-in balls help but kickers have been getting better incrementally over the years with better conditioning, technique, cleats, groomed or artificial fields, and windless domed stadiums.

I know of an abandoned football field. I'd like to collect all the Cold Front jerseys, take them to that field, pile them up in a pyre, and burn them as an offering to the Gridiron Gods. And never see them again.

I did everything wrong... I wore my 17 jersey for every win this year and nearly every win last season. And then for the Patriots game, I wore my Kelly jersey. It seemed to me that the offense and defense weren't optimized, and something needed to change. I made the wrong change. Worse, I have a tradition going back many, many years of always eating wings on game day. But my wife made Chinese hot pot for a late lunch/early dinner here on the West Coast. Well, I ate a lot and wasn't hungry during the game, so I didn't cook the wings. I'm sincerely sorry for contributing to the bad juju. Think about it... All the things we did wrong detailed in this thread and we still only lost by 3. If we collectively hadn't screwed up, we would have ended the Cold Front contest with a 'W.'

I gotta admit that this is an interesting comparison. The numbers are pretty darn close. But I'll add this about our guy. He's quiet for parts of games when Cook is carrying the load or Brady is making dumbass calls. And one of the reasons Cook is carrying the load is because teams are defending Josh first with 2-high shells and - often - a spy. Yet despite teams being manically focused on stopping him, when Josh has to make a play to win a game, he does. Some of the announcers like to say he puts on his Superman cape when he needs to. He has the ability to will a team to victory. The stats don't capture that.

As someone who regrets missing the hippie era by just a tad, my philosophy is: Build bridges, not walls, Make love, not war. Kissing ass is better than kicking ass - except of course in war and football.

@PatsFanNH, for what it's worth, I appreciate you taking part in our discussion of the game. It's nice to get another perspective, especially when I haven't watched a Pats game yet this year.

I agree with almost all of this. But I'm not convinced we can't throw downfield. When we needed to throw downfield in the 4th against the Ravens, we did so with spectacular results. It's also worth noting that we play against a lot of nickel with two deep safeties. Opponents are more-or-less letting us beat them with Cook's 4 & 5-yard carries, but they're determined not to let us dice them up with Josh's deep throws. Having said all that, we don't have elite wideouts and I'm not sure the downfield passing game is Brady's forte. So maybe there's some truth to what you said. But Brady is good at taking what defenses give him and puts a lot of points on the board.

Yeah, if you look at the Bills regular season performance over the past few years, you'd expect that the team would have gone to at least one Super Bowl. Whether it's luck, coaching, injuries, or something less... it's maddening. But as someone who's lived through 2-win seasons, I'm enjoying the ride.

I agree Kurt's overly critical. And, yet, I think it would be great if Kurt and Josh watched tape together in the offseason. Perfection can never be achieved but it ought to be pursued.

Bills #2 offense (ypg) #11 defense (ypg) TO: +3 Pats #14 offense #16 defense TO: -3 I don't think the Pats can score enough running the ball to keep up with the Bills' offense. So can Drake Maye pass well enough against Bills (currently ranked #1 in pass D) to win the game? The older, traditional stats point to a Bills victory. The Bills have the better offense and are more likely to win the turnover battle.

Maybe, though I don't personally care. The individual awards are nice but what we all want, including Allen and Cook, is playoff success.

Bills 30 Pats 20

Good points - we're not far apart. Every game, I text a friend of mine something to the effect of "Our D sucks!!!" Then on Monday, I look at some numbers. Our yards allowed is above average. Points allowed is average. Our record is 4-0. So "sucks" might be a strong descriptor. But a team with SB aspirations ought to field a Top Five defense and we certainly aren't doing that. And like you, I think Beane, McD, and Babich all share some blame. Certainly getting back the walking wounded and suspended will help. But I don't know if that's enough to get us to the promised land.

Sensible argument, though personally I'm probably not ready just yet to ditch the Zubaz and table jumping. The nonsensical wackiness of it all kind of appeals to me. But I think if & when we do move on, it's because we've found something better. Long ago, Hugh Prather wrote, "If I do not go in a good direction, I go in a bad direction. I do not stand still." I think table jumping might fall in the "bad direction" category. But we can't/won't just walk away from table jumping, or Zubaz. I think these oddities need to be replaced with a good direction - new traditions that inspire us in some way and get the attention that some fans crave.

Since we've already made these our things, why drop them now? I despised table jumping at first because it made Bills fans look like drunken morons. But now I love the odd uniqueness of it. I hated Zubaz at first, too, and now I own a pair because it's the Billsy thing to do. I don't want the Bills to devolve into every other fanbase. IMHO, all the things that set us apart, including btw the immense charity giving, should be sustained and embraced.

Historically, teams starting 1-3 have about a 14% chance of making the playoffs. A team starting 1-4 has about a 6% chance. Though we have to consider that seasons are a game longer now, and Baltimore is more talented than the typical 1-3 (or 1-4) team. The Ravens are a tough matchup for the Bills and I'd prefer not to see them come January.

Josh Allen, Matt Milano, Dion Dawkins.

I agree with almost all of this. But I don't think he'll get 900 yards on his 50 catches. I don't see him averaging 18 ypc.