OldTimer1960

I’m not necessarily advocating for another TE. I think that most here would agree that the offense needs more weapons - I’m just thinking that it is possible that the best offensive weapon available when they pick might be a TE.

I’m not saying that Tre Palmer might not be pretty good, but Flowers has much more proven ability to shake defenders with route running. Hyatt has shown good hands on the few routes he was asked to run.

Shopping just for fast 40 times is not the best way to scout (imho). Palmer has some good traits, but I don’t think he is coming into the league and playing a lot on offense this season. The RB. might have a chance to play some in the league as it is an easier position to make an impact.

The way a #2 TE gets on the field is to move away from a 3WR set because they don’t have 3 good WRs.

I would not be disappointed with Schmitz and Rice in first two round, but the crowd that thinks the 27th pick needs to be all-pro in a year or two will be. Really, that crowd is going to be disappointed no matter who they take in round 1. Point is if people thing Greg Rousseau isn’t performing “as a first round pick should” won’t like anyone they take at 27 in this draft, except maybe Bijon Robinson. I would be happy with a good OL or good starting WR or good starter elsewhere.

I’m not sure that Schmitz can be a good G after showing up at the combine at only 301 and not being known for his mobility. I must be watching different games for Rice, because I see very little ability to get separation based on his route running. I agree that he has above average size, very good leaping ability and ability to make contested catches. I just don’t see a guy who is going to get open vs man coverage. I think the Bills will have the option to take him at their 2nd round pick. He was very productive, but it was against weak competition for the most part.

Totally agree, but the problem is there don’t seem to be great WR who will be available at Bills’ draft position and I can’t identify (so far) any major playmakers who might be available in round 2 or 3. I don’t think that this is a great year for WR in the draft. There are some undersized guys that might be really good in the slot - Addison, Flowers, Downs, but is that what the Bills need? I think they really need a good outside receiver to challenge Gabe Davis. I haven’t completely given up on Davis who played hurt much of the year, but that spot is where I’d hope to upgrade- after Quentin Johnston, who fits that description? *Maybe* Rashee Rice, maybe Jonathan Mingo? Michael Wilson ran 4.59 after a nice Senior Bowl to dampen his stock. Now, I don’t think 4.59 disqualifies Wilson from consideration, but that wasn’t the best number for a guy who had some momentum after the all-star game.

The problem is finding someone who wants to trade up. There will likely be a bunch of players roughly in the same tier, so what incentive will a team have to move up. It often takes a QB available late for someone to want to jump up, but who would that be. Tanner McKee?

In trade down, I’d be looking for one of: Steve Avila (G), Luke Wypler (C), maybe John Michael Schmitz (but, Schmitz only weighed 301lbs at the combine and his test scores were nothing special), Josh Down (slot receiver). I am still trying to find “the good WR depth”. I have a lot of games to watch, but I don’t think that any of the outside WRs after Quentin Johnston would walk into training camp as a favorite to beat out Gabe Davis. There are some slot only guys that could challenge and beat out Shakir for slot.

Got it, I didn’t immediately get the joke. Sorry about that!

Trade down and get Paris Johnson? I expect he will be gone long before the Bills’ pick at 27. How would trading back into round 2 allow us to get Johnson? If you meant trade up for Johnson, then that is likely to cost the Bills’ 1st and 2nd - if we are lucky.

Why would you want a 1 year rental? This idea that a team just needs to go "all in" and "mortgage the future" to try to win a championship is flawed, in my opinion. You can't predict injuries or bad breaks - just look at last season. This team, unless they lose significant pieces without replacing them with somewhat equivalent pieces, is good enough to be "in the mix" to win a championship. So are a number of other teams. I think the chances of winning a championship are maximized by staying competitive for as long as you can - get as many opportunities as possible. KC fixed their OL last year, but they shipped Tyreek Hill out. That wasn't an "all in" move - it was a move towards long-term competitiveness.

Henry is 29 with 1750 carries and the residual damage each one did on his body. He had 349 carries just last year. Now, maybe he is the very rare RB who can keep going for another year or two before a major drop-off - like Adrian Peterson, but I would not give up a lot of draft picks or money to find out. This team NEEDs to take a lot of the rushing load off of Josh Allen or he will be destroyed way before he should be. But, that doesn't mean take a beaten up workhorse RB and pound him behind a sub-par OL. If you can somehow fix the OL and get a bigger RB in the 4th/5th round to share carries with Cook and take some of the load off Josh, great.

This is great discussion. No point taking a WR who isn’t that good or an interior OL who may be very good, but you won’t pay. Just recognize it is a poor class and see what you can do for the future is a reasonable approach. A good C or G in round 1 is ok in the near-term, but will you pay them later? An average/decent WR doesn’t really move the needle.

The tread left on Henry’s tires has to be mighty thin after all the work he has logged - and his running style includes a lot of collisions.

Understand your point. Good discussion!

You had me on Musgrave until you got to production. In his best season 2021 he caught 22 passes. Now, that doesn’t mean he can’t be a good receiving TE, but I would not say he has proven that he already is one.

Campbell or other top D player. In a draft that isn’t the greatest, it just doesn’t seem smart to exclude half the players from consideration because we want/need help on offense (I agree, too). If there isn’t a good offensive player at anywhere on the OL or WR, then you should consider other positions, including defense.

He was and he struggled some. The quote that says he thinks he is the top receiver? That sells me on nothing. Guy is fast and can catch deep balls. We don’t know one way or the other if he can do anything else.

Rashee Rice quietly had a nice day 41” vertical, really good broad jump and 4.51 40. I’m still not fully sold on him getting open in the NFL because I didn’t see him get a lot of separation in college (but great production). All that said, I’m a draft fan, not a scout.

Speed, especially 40 time, is not the end all. Guys can be productive in the NFL running in the 4.5s. Now, Addison’s time combined with his slight frame is not the best combination. Yet, he gets open anyway and has good hands.

I saw that. He had a good game vs Carter. I didn’t say that Torrence isn’t any good. I just don’t think that he is some kind of human bulldozer- he has power for sure, but is he just going to dominate his man by pushing him 5 yards of the LOS? I think he would be a good player, just not super dominant - though I think you can figure he would really help the 3rd and short run game.

I think you could be right. I’m not seeing a WR is isn’t either small, pigeon-holed to slot only or not particularly fast. I love Flowers and Downs’ quickness, but Flowers is really small to play outside and Downs is slight and short even in the slot. If premium positions are QB, WR, OT, CB and DE then I think you are going to need to look at “less premium “ positions at 27 or go defense which is probably not preferable. A few C/Gs will be of some interest, but that isn’t typically a first round position. You might see a RT like Darnell Wright available, but again RT isn’t typical for round 1. Most would not be happy with a RB - the most devalued position. So, what should they do?

Several WRs had underwhelming workouts. Addison’s vertical was OK, but nothing special, either. Kayshon Boutte’s 29” vert was worse than a lot of DEs put up and his 4.5 40 is OK.

In the two games I watched, I didn’t think that Torrence really dominated in his blocks. No doubt he is huge and has power, but I didn’t see many (any?) instances where he blew his man completely off the LOS.