OldTimer1960

In trade down, I’d be looking for one of: Steve Avila (G), Luke Wypler (C), maybe John Michael Schmitz (but, Schmitz only weighed 301lbs at the combine and his test scores were nothing special), Josh Down (slot receiver). I am still trying to find “the good WR depth”. I have a lot of games to watch, but I don’t think that any of the outside WRs after Quentin Johnston would walk into training camp as a favorite to beat out Gabe Davis. There are some slot only guys that could challenge and beat out Shakir for slot.

Got it, I didn’t immediately get the joke. Sorry about that!

Trade down and get Paris Johnson? I expect he will be gone long before the Bills’ pick at 27. How would trading back into round 2 allow us to get Johnson? If you meant trade up for Johnson, then that is likely to cost the Bills’ 1st and 2nd - if we are lucky.

Why would you want a 1 year rental? This idea that a team just needs to go "all in" and "mortgage the future" to try to win a championship is flawed, in my opinion. You can't predict injuries or bad breaks - just look at last season. This team, unless they lose significant pieces without replacing them with somewhat equivalent pieces, is good enough to be "in the mix" to win a championship. So are a number of other teams. I think the chances of winning a championship are maximized by staying competitive for as long as you can - get as many opportunities as possible. KC fixed their OL last year, but they shipped Tyreek Hill out. That wasn't an "all in" move - it was a move towards long-term competitiveness.

Henry is 29 with 1750 carries and the residual damage each one did on his body. He had 349 carries just last year. Now, maybe he is the very rare RB who can keep going for another year or two before a major drop-off - like Adrian Peterson, but I would not give up a lot of draft picks or money to find out. This team NEEDs to take a lot of the rushing load off of Josh Allen or he will be destroyed way before he should be. But, that doesn't mean take a beaten up workhorse RB and pound him behind a sub-par OL. If you can somehow fix the OL and get a bigger RB in the 4th/5th round to share carries with Cook and take some of the load off Josh, great.

This is great discussion. No point taking a WR who isn’t that good or an interior OL who may be very good, but you won’t pay. Just recognize it is a poor class and see what you can do for the future is a reasonable approach. A good C or G in round 1 is ok in the near-term, but will you pay them later? An average/decent WR doesn’t really move the needle.

The tread left on Henry’s tires has to be mighty thin after all the work he has logged - and his running style includes a lot of collisions.

Understand your point. Good discussion!

You had me on Musgrave until you got to production. In his best season 2021 he caught 22 passes. Now, that doesn’t mean he can’t be a good receiving TE, but I would not say he has proven that he already is one.

Campbell or other top D player. In a draft that isn’t the greatest, it just doesn’t seem smart to exclude half the players from consideration because we want/need help on offense (I agree, too). If there isn’t a good offensive player at anywhere on the OL or WR, then you should consider other positions, including defense.

He was and he struggled some. The quote that says he thinks he is the top receiver? That sells me on nothing. Guy is fast and can catch deep balls. We don’t know one way or the other if he can do anything else.

Rashee Rice quietly had a nice day 41” vertical, really good broad jump and 4.51 40. I’m still not fully sold on him getting open in the NFL because I didn’t see him get a lot of separation in college (but great production). All that said, I’m a draft fan, not a scout.

Speed, especially 40 time, is not the end all. Guys can be productive in the NFL running in the 4.5s. Now, Addison’s time combined with his slight frame is not the best combination. Yet, he gets open anyway and has good hands.

I saw that. He had a good game vs Carter. I didn’t say that Torrence isn’t any good. I just don’t think that he is some kind of human bulldozer- he has power for sure, but is he just going to dominate his man by pushing him 5 yards of the LOS? I think he would be a good player, just not super dominant - though I think you can figure he would really help the 3rd and short run game.

I think you could be right. I’m not seeing a WR is isn’t either small, pigeon-holed to slot only or not particularly fast. I love Flowers and Downs’ quickness, but Flowers is really small to play outside and Downs is slight and short even in the slot. If premium positions are QB, WR, OT, CB and DE then I think you are going to need to look at “less premium “ positions at 27 or go defense which is probably not preferable. A few C/Gs will be of some interest, but that isn’t typically a first round position. You might see a RT like Darnell Wright available, but again RT isn’t typical for round 1. Most would not be happy with a RB - the most devalued position. So, what should they do?

Several WRs had underwhelming workouts. Addison’s vertical was OK, but nothing special, either. Kayshon Boutte’s 29” vert was worse than a lot of DEs put up and his 4.5 40 is OK.

In the two games I watched, I didn’t think that Torrence really dominated in his blocks. No doubt he is huge and has power, but I didn’t see many (any?) instances where he blew his man completely off the LOS.

The thing with AJ Brown that mitigated his "OK - not great" speed was his physicality. Dude is rocked up and powerful. Addison is quite thin, but at the same time, rules don't allow too much contact with WRs except near the line. If he can get off the line, he seems to have the quickness and route running chops to get open and the hands to catch the ball reliably. Is Addison worth pick 27? Is really anybody that will be available a better option? I don't know, but I do think anyone they select is going to be sort of a consolation prize given the general weakness of the class. Thoughts? Trading down is easy to say, but you have to find someone willing to move up. Who would be so enticing that could reasonably be available that some team wants to trade back up into round 1? I suppose some team might like a QB that hasn't gone yet at that point, but who that would be I don't know. I think once you get past Anthony Richardson, I don't know that any of the remaining QBs would be enticing enough for someone to move up for, even if it meant gaining 5th year option.

Jordan Addison ran only a 4.55 40 today. Might that cause him to drop enough to make it to the Bills? I think 4.55 is still acceptable provided his slight frame isn't too much of an additional detraction. He is certainly quick, productive and seems to have very good hands.

I agree with most of this, just not sure Davis is a good candidate to be a “possession” receiver. Not sure his hands are good enough and not sure he can get open consistently like that. Maybe he can do it - I believe that he is a super hard worker.

Avila is more mobile than Torrence, but he is still huge and moving/playing in space is not going to be his best use in my view. Honestly, I watched a few games of both Torrence and Avila and, while I am no scout, Avila looked a little better to me.

FWIW, I agree on Vorhees. I watched him vs Stanford and Oregon State. I didn’t see him get beat in pass pro and he is a tenacious run blocker.

Except who is blocking for him?

Isn’t that also true for Dell who is smaller even than Downs?

I really think Gesicki is a nice TE. I don’t know why Miami stopped using him under McDaniels. I suppose that they thought it better to throw to Hill and Waddle. I suspect Gesicki will get some nice offers.