BADOLBILZ

He treated them like men alright........he instilled zero discipline, they had no curfews, his camp was the softest in the league etc... The egos managed themselves. As I said, they were united in their desire to not have a hard nosed, disciplinarian installed. It was a unique circumstance and they were a uniquely talented team. He looked the other way when they partied away Super Bowls and in return they pretended that Marv was their fearless leader. McD is a real NFL HC. He's got his issues that limit him but he's the real deal. And he knows what he's looking for when hiring coaches. Marv was really just a puppet for Polian. If the bickering 1989 Bills didn't get their sh!t together Polian was reportedly going to hire Bobby Ross with all his anger and discipline.........and that would have been martial law compared to what they had with Marv's country club.

He didn't even do THAT much. He just organized the practice schedule and gave corny speeches. The players did the rest. They called training camp "Club Marv".

Dickerson was just one of many, many bad football coaches Marv hired. What Dickerson did on the radio is irrelevant to whether Marv could pick and develop coaches. He couldn't and didn't. The SB era Bills were coached by the players. Marv was just their enabler. They pretended to listen to his corny old a$$ because they were all united in not wanting to have to play for a serious, detail oriented NFL head coach. They just did whatever they wanted whenever they wanted and then later asked Marv for forgiveness with fingers crossed behind their backs and just did it again. It was an experiment. It ultimately failed at the end 4 times because they would always run up against a talented enough team with a FAR superior coaching staff who they just couldn't overwhelm by force of talent.

Yeah Marv was terrible at hiring and developing coaches. If they hadn't already been a HC in the NFL then Marv seemed to hire someone who couldn't coach his way out of a wet paper bag. And that's because Marv wasn't an X and O coach. Marv ran the wing-T in Kansas City. True story. He was a relic from a simpler time by the time he became the Bills HC and then was basically along for the ride. Substitute teacher/head coach.

Hilarius Toney lines up on side........Bills lose that game and miss the playoffs.......the post-season impression of Brady is he couldn't get the ball to their superstar receiver Diggs. Failing grade. That is how close the narrative about Brady is from being VERY different. I liked a lot of what he did but they were going there anyway. McDermott just hadn't reached the "smash glass" state of emergency until after that Denver debacle. That's not what I said. McKenzie was the worst WR3 they'd had since Allen broke out. Daboll had the other guys too so don't be an idiot. Daboll didn't oversee a "bad" offense.......he oversaw an epically bad offense. Which was consistent with him being fired after just 1 season in each of his 3 prior NFL OC gigs.

Yeah I think having the second ranked offense in the NFL saddled with Lil' Dummy McKenzie as WR3 for much of the season is a job well done. It sounds stupid to suggest it wasn't. I don't see leaning into how Allen SHOULD be used if you want to get 15 great years out of him as "EPA chasing". He was a QB doing what was right for his QB. Dorsey suffered from misty, water-colored memories that fans like yourself had of Brian Daboll......it was as if Daboll had died and people forgot what a piece of sh!t his offense could look like when he got outsmarted. And it didn't have to be a fellow genius to outsmart him. He started his Bills career with the worst 8 game offensive stretch in team history(lowest scoring NFL team thru half a season since the merger which is why he'd been fired 3 times at prior OC gigs) and was providing diminishing returns in his final season........worse than the stretch of modest play that got Dorsey FIRED. Dorsey was scapegoated. But like I said, it's not like he was a generational play caller he just put the focus where it should have been while Daboll put it on himself.

Dorsey absolutely did a good job. He had less to work with than Daboll in 2021 and yet the offense was better under Dorsey in 2022. I said it at the time and I don't think people appreciate how bad Daboll was thru much of 2021. Even when they were winning at the end of the season they labored against mailed-in performance teams like Carolina and Atlanta and just couldn't function without using Allen like a running back. They were lucky the Jets had the bus warming up in the finale when Allen completed 1 of 13 pass attempts to Gabe Davis. It was UGLY. All was forgotten because Allen went off in the 2 playoff games. It wasn't Dorsey's fault that the quality of weapons around Allen got decidedly worse in 2022 and 2023. If they had personnel to push the ball down the field they would have. If Dorsey was guilty of anything it was not pulling the plug on having Josh Allen play QB like he SHOULD. From the pocket, pushing the ball downfield backed by an offensive line that can pound the rock.

Zero answers? Dorsey made the adjustments in the Tampa game and was lauded for it. The staff was already aware which direction they were going to have to go offensively to respond to how they were being defensed. They tried to "load manage" Allen in the Denver game thinking it was an easy W and McDermott disastrously blew that game at the end. So someone had to be sacrificed for McDermott's failures to get morale off the mat. Were you disappointed with the offense under Brady?

Yeah c'mon @GunnerBill. You protest too much. You said that when Diggs fell off Dorsey's offense fell off.........Diggs was on pace for almost 1500 yards when Dorsey got fired. I get it, you want more motion and more trickery. That's your definition of modern but those things aren't "new". What's new is having QB's in the NFL who can hurl a 30 yard out pass. And teams that barely practice together anymore. Modern and "more complicated" aren't necessarily synonymous.

Yep. And when your QB can make throws to areas of the field that defense's aren't equipped to defend........and leads the league in completion % on throws over 10 yards and is kinda' shoddy on the short stuff...........what else would you do but surround him with 3 slot receivers and a washed-up MVS? Some of the crazy reverse logic people use here cracks me up. @Alphadawg7 says they have "diversified" their weapons. You can't make this sh!t up.

Since Justin Shorter's NFL career will be over in a few weeks I will let Dalton have the "DK Decaf" moniker.

If that's your perception it's probably because of the decline of playmakers. They have gradually deteriorated in the weapons department. There was a big drop-off in talent between 2021 and 2022. Beasley and Sanders out..........Lil' Dummy failing forward 2 spots in the pecking order? Really? They've gone from being top 3 in the NFL in 2020 to being well into the 20's heading into 2024.

Because Daboll is in the style of coaches like Wyche and Mularkey. Style over substance. A lack of attention to detail. When it looks good it looks great but more often over their career it will look AWFUL. That inconsistency is their legacy. Not being a minute from beating Bill Walsh in the SB or beating Andy Reid on his home turf in the playoffs. I guess you are just a sucker for style. Substance results in more consistency. As a McDermott supporter I'd think you'd appreciate that more. When you have the horses......it's common sense to keep it simple and focus on execution. They never had an offensive foundation with Daboll. Their offensive line was a floating floor because of him. It's been a strength since Dorsey took over because of that emphasis on execution instead of deception. They were only as good as his play calling when Daboll was here. Which was an injustice to the superior talent they had. And unfortunately, not everybody was fooled by Daboll. When he guessed wrong the end result was a disaster. Like in the AFCCG. He was SO BAD that day that they looked like they didn't even belong there. Just totally pantsed by Spags and subsequently looked like a fraudulent contender.

Hey, fans LOVE a nifty reverse to Lil' Dummy for 5 yards. That would always elicit a compliment from the booth or a camera close up of Daboll marinating in his genius. Nicely executed gap run play for the same 5 yards that could have just as easily been run? Establish an identity when you have a super human QB? Boring.

Mike Mularkey actually beat Andy Reid in KC in the playoffs in January 2018. He was a coach of the year candidate in Buffalo in his first year. Is he good? Being a good coach is about consistency. Sloppy, inconsistent coaches like Daboll ride that roller coaster for a reason.

They just have totally different styles. Daboll tried to run a "gotcha' play" on every play in Buffalo. It's that Mike Mularkey/Sam Wyche style. When it works it creates the false sense that they are geniuses. When it doesn't.......it's a disaster like Mularkey's entire second season in Buffalo(or Daboll last year in NY). And that's just who Daboll is as a coach.......whether it's as an OC or a HC. More style than substance. Not enough attention to detail. His 2023 Giants team was one of the most unprepared teams you will ever see start a season. Trying to parse the HC part off implies that he's totally different as an OC. He's not. He'd already been fired 3 times as an OC for chrissakes. Dorsey is a more traditional play caller who is going to run plays that he thinks his team can execute and not be fixated on tricking the opposing DC every play. That's why his offense was more consistent with less. And also why he got almost no credit when it produced.

Daboll was fired 3 times as an NFL OC before lucking into Josh Allen. Calling him "great" is about as large as hyperbole gets. Do you pay attention to what he is doing in NY? He is a sh!t show. @GunnerBill loves Daboll too. You guys are just wrong as can be on that. We should be in "I told ya' so" mode and you guys are still in denial.

1) As I said, Dorsey put up points despite having one hand tied behind his back by the mandate to not run Josh Allen. They averaged 26 under Dorsey and 23 under Brady in-season despite that limitation. You can cherry pick the series of modest results toward the end of his run but that was during McDermott's utter confusion stage where he was killing the team with bad calls and blitzes and shat himself trying to rush the FG block team on at the end of the Denver game. 2) Dorsey had already made the adjustments that Brady got credit for 2 weeks earlier in the Tampa game. It was obvious that they were going to have to use Allen extensively on the ground to win because the passing game weapons just weren't good enough. But McBeane entered the season pushing the narrative that Josh had to run less. I explained that in detail in the post you are replying to but don't want to address because it undermines your argument completely. 3) Yes, he was frustrated with McKenzie.......who had made numerous bone head plays in that game. The last of which was trying to dash for the sidelines when he needed to go forward, get down and allow the team to get a kick off. It's amazing how ignorant fans, like you in this case, can be about end-of-game situational football but it's beyond belief when a player does it. 4) Crowder was a f#cking dumpster dive. He didn't "get" hurt........he had been hurt and "kept" getting hurt. As he had been much of the prior 3 seasons. That's why he was signed for only $2M. How do you not understand this? 5) 3 of the 5 losses were directly because of McDermott. His defensive play calling was terrible, his decision to fly out to London at the last minute and the sequence at the end of the Denver game. And opening day was on Josh Allen and the special teams. Allen threw 3 interceptions to the same safety. Dorsey is no great OC but he was without-question scapegoated for issues beyond his control. Sometimes that has to be done.

You'd think because that's probably the only way they are going to score at near the level they are accustomed to........but I am not even certain they will. We will see how they handle it. They've played "load management" game plans with Josh before at times when we didn't expect it. They've largely waited until they were like 6-5 until they've thrown all caution out the window.

No, you don't know that. I wasn't a fan of his at Miami, either. Weakest position on otherwise the most talented teams in CFB history. But Dorsey consistently put up points in Buffalo. Fact. He adjusted to opponents and to Josh Allen injuries. He was more consistent with less talent and more restrictions than the wicky-wacky, thrice-previously-fired OC turned unaccountable, emotionally unstable, finger-pointing Giants HC Brian Daboll. Who oversaw sh!t like scoring 3 points in defeat against Urban Liar. The little tantrum Dorsey had in Miami was rightfully brought on by Lil' Dummy being a complete idiot and costing them a game where they had put up like 500 yards of offense. Beane set the decline of the Bills offense in motion with personnel decisions like the WR dumpster diving that put Dummy in a starting gig. It wasn't Dorsey. And the 2023 mid-season swoon wasn't a Dorsey creation either. The swoons have happened every season under McDermott. As Chuck Pagano said.....McDermott's ass is so tight on the sideline all he'd need was a needle and a chain and he could pull a trailer. That intensity has seemed to tap the joy from the team as a whole every year at mid-season. They didn't lose to New England and Denver because of Dorsey's plan or calls they lost because of McDermott's plans and calls. So much of the Dorsey hate was a manufactured excuse for things that were really on McBeane. I was GLAD he was fired because McBeane had set the table for the swoon........something had to be done........and the guys most accountable sure weren't getting canned.

Eh........sometimes you just gotta' fire a coach to re-focus people. They don't have to be low energy or even culpable for failure to be canned they just gotta' be the guy who was overseeing what isn't working. It's a lot more common in other sports. I think all of the NBA, NHL and MLB have had a head coaching/manager change in-season and had that team later reach the finals in the last 5 years. Probably even easier in kickball. Hard to do with a head coach in the NFL........but an OC or DC with a replacement in-house would be the equivalent. Dorsey had already begun implementing the changes they needed to adapt to being a lower-flying offense. He just needed full permission to put Josh Allen in the meat grinder if necessary. They withheld that permission until they hired Brady and that multiplied the force of the move. It wasn't like they were firing Bill Walsh to hire Mike Shanahan. They swapped out a modestly regarded 2nd year OC for a recently fired OC.

The Chiefs offense produced an incredible 9 yards per play against the Bills in that playoff win last January. That's why they outscored the Bills. Yards matter. The Bills probably lose that game 95 times out of 100 allowing 9 yards per play. They had a chance to make that one game an exception by milking the clock against the more dynamic team.........but they lost their patience at the 2 minute warning........tried to be the kind of big play offense they no longer were.......and when they tried to produce those big pass plays they failed repeatedly.

He's just intentionally conflating two very different points. One is that, barring a trade for a proven commodity, this Bills WR corps is the first to enter a season without a player who had put up at least a 900 yard season in their career since the mid-80's. In fact, they have almost ALWAYS had someone with 1,000 yard season in their past going back to when Andre Reed started doing it. The point simply underscores the leap of faith that they are taking with a prime year of Josh Allen's career. Relative to reaching the SB, it just means that multiple targets probably have to produce well above anything they've done in the NFL before. That's a bigger ask than some people can understand or want to admit. The Chiefs have had 2 players finish in the top 32 in the NFL in receiving yards every season since Mahomes has been with the team. And last year they did it in only 16 games because they rested the starters in the finale. Contrary to the narrative that they sucked offensively, they remained a tough matchup in the passing game........especially late in the season when Rice turned into a star. The Bills have only had 2 receivers in the top 32 once. In 2020 when they reached the AFCCG for the only time with Allen. The data is clear.........the quality of your receiving targets is incredibly important if you want to be in the SB.

"However, this standard also includes anticipatory passers with pinpoint placement and there are teams that don’t have a starting quarterback with these qualities." I noticed how you did not highlight that part. Does pinpoint placement sound like Josh Allen to you? Or maybe more like a Tom Brady or Joe Burrow type? If I am "misquoting" then you are stretttttttttttching the perception of who Josh Allen is as a QB. Here's a thought......why don't you ask Waldman where he'd rank the Bills WR corps(WR specifically) and get back to us with his answer. The praise he gives Coleman is faint. He mentions Coleman's ceiling in the same breath as what reception perception would call "Tier 3" receivers. Guys like Williams and Higgins who are called 1B's but who are really just good, big bodied WR2's who don't separate and are going to look overpaid immediately after they've been extended or if they don't have a pinpoint passer. I'll give Boldin a pass in that comp because there were a lot less talented WR's(and CB's) in the league when he was playing. Like I've said..........if you are going to give Coleman credit for being able to develop into something much greater than he was in college why can't he eventually develop the nuance of a Davante Adams? It's not likely, but I don't buy that his ceiling is as limited as less athletic players like Mike Williams or Tee Higgins. RAS isn't everything but Higgins was a 4 RAS coming out and Coleman an 8. They aren't the same, IMO. It's a lazy comp for such a genius.

Waldman is also perhaps the biggest advocate of the idea that most of you have pushed back so hard against...........that the quality of your top 2 receiving targets greatly dictates whether you have a chance of reaching a SB or not. Kinda' hilarious that you are promoting his work. I view Coleman's ceiling as higher(Davante Adams) than Waldman does but he also recognizes that this is a receiver who isn't likely to excel at getting separation and may need to be his team's 1st receiving option to excel because his windows may close too quickly to be a good option later. And if he's a Mike Williams type........that might be selling Josh Allen short. There is a large range of outcomes with Coleman and having seen it in person I don't see where practice has proven anything important yet.