Mr. WEO

Titans fans? I assumed all their season ticket holders were speculators.

You said I thought NFL reffing was A+ (even highlighted the sentence I was disputing). You said they were calling the game unfairly--this can only mean they are favoring one team over another. Otherwise they are honest errors, not "unfair". I can't describe all of this in simpler terms. But you are entitled to believe otherwise of course. I was showing why that belief made no sense. I disagree with people who say the Earth is flat too.... Cheers!

No, I didn't say that either (nice try though!)-- it's not me who is "framing it" the way I discussed--it's the way the process works. Try to stay on point. If you are counting the plays where (you "see") a penalty is NOT called, then logic tells you that you have to include all plays to identify all those as well. So.......you have to include all plays. Let's say I believe you and "you see" 1000 blown/missed calls a year (which of course is ridiculous, but for argument's sake) . That leaves an accuracy rate 97.5% Money can't change that margin. You've given no cogent argument otherwise, except to insinuate guys are on the take and calling games "unfairly". That belongs in the ref/conspiracy threads.

wtf

I see nothing to dispute this 99%. Think of how many plays there are every game and every single play is reviewed. A call not made also counts. Clean plays without a call also count. Assume about 150 plays per game on average for 17 weeks for 32 teams. That's 40,800 plays this season. 3109 penalties were called. If every single penalty that was called was an error, the error rate would be only 7.6%. If 1000 bad calls (1 out of every 3!!) were made in such a season than that's still 92.4% accuracy. Obviously this doesn't include missed calls but you get the idea of how many calls made would have to be wrong to even make a dent in the overall accuracy listed (99%). That's 400+ bad calls/errors a season or 1-2 per game. Double it to 800 bad calls a year and that's still 98% accuracy. Triple it...you get the point. So you are suggesting a remedy for a problem affecting tiny fraction of plays that would not conceivably alter the outcome anyway. Docking pay would have zero effect on honest ref's work product. It can't get to 100% accuracy from 98 or 99%. let it go...

Plenty of lesser arms in the NFL. Tannehill is a great example. He's QB of the #1 seed. He's always been a mediocrity, but on a good team....there he is. Matt Ryan has passed a million yards with very mediocre arm strength. Brees had a great career and won a SB with a not-live arm. None of these posters claiming Jones didn't exceed expectations can point to a week one post where they stated he would be a top half QB who would lead NE to the playoffs---and challenge the Bills for the Division to the end of the season. Sure, this may be his career peak. But after what by any account (despite the BS above) was a much better season than predicted, it's hard to credibly say BB should be done with the guy now, as some are saying.

hot take alert!!!

If refs are throwing ('calling unfair") games, they need to be fired, not fined. This should go without saying. Otherwise, they calling games fairly to the best of their collective ability as a group on the field--but errors will always exist. The NFL claims 98.9% accuracy of all calls. I haven't found a site that shows a different number. maybe this will help you: https://fansided.com/2021/11/22/nfl-officiating-crisis-fix-2021/ "When leaving the stadium, officials get a thumb drive with the recorded game to review. They spend hours watching every play and consulting with their crew and supervisors about their performance and how to improve." "Officials who receive playoff assignments earn more. Officials are graded on every play based on an evaluation system started in the 1990s by officiating pioneer Art McNally, who recently became a Hall of Fame candidate. Officials fall into three tiers based on the grades, with the highest tier selected for the playoffs. Austro says some officials can become so obsessed with the grading system that to avoid making an incorrect call they huddle and wait for a call from the instant replay booth. Daopolous believes replay can be a helpful tool, but says the increased dependence on it hurts the game-watching experience for fans left watching an official playing with their earpiece. “There’s too much emphasis on New York,” Daopoulos says. “Officials make mistakes. Replay officials make mistakes—they make mistakes in New York.” So...to reiterate: there is accountability and poor performance is penalized with less money earned.

good question. lots of tickets on stubhub right now--no indication they can't be bought and transferred right now

I didn't say that. Getting rid of refs and having everything reviewed by video in a central office on every play will eliminate nearly all "errors". Just pointing out why your examples don't apply here. Refs aren't committing crimes. They are making judgement calls based on what they see and what they know. You keep insisting that the referees are intentionally calling an "unfair" game. That means they are favoring one team over another throughout the game. Unless ALL the refs in a game are in on some criminal enterprise to profit from one team beating another, your argument makes no sense. And it follows that if they are not intentionally throwing the game one way or the other, than charging them money for errors won't have an impact on their error rate. And I don't think you realize that all refs are already reviewed and graded? And no pro sports leagues agree with the idea that paying refs less money (through fines/penalties will make them better refs---for all of the obvious reasons that I have listed a few times now.

A rookie coming out of Alabama (not the best training ground for future NFL QBs) with only 16 college starts and who finished 13th in yards (just behind MAtt Ryan, ahead of Big Ben, Tannehill, Trevor Lawrence, Wentz) and 8th in completion % (ahead of Brady, Tannehill, Stafford, Mahomes, Herbert....), 14th in TD (more than Tannehill, Ryan, Garoppolo, Lawrence), 15th in rating (better than Josh, Ryan, Tannehill, Big Ben). By all metrics, he had a better season than Tannehill, QB of the top team in the AFC. In an offensive "rebuild", he helped lead a moribund 7-9 team that missed the playoffs for the first time in 12 years to a playoff appearance. Given all of this, what, exactly, were your expectations of his performance at the beginning of the season?

well, historically, that nobody has been Knox.......

Best I've ever seen.

The coverage of the Cowboys is uniformly mocking of their collapse....

This already happens every week for every ref. Want to get rid of ref errors? Get rid of refs. Your idea makes no sense. Penalties do not remove human error. Plain and simple. Speeding is an awful example for behavioral conditioning. Every driver violates the speed limit every time he/she drives, yet they all know that there is as close to zero chance they will get caught on any given trip that it has no effect on their behavior. And they are knowingly breaking th law, not honestly calling plays in a pro game. Another bad example is the restaurant employee. If they are shorting the till, knowingly or not, that is money the owner is due. This also has no relevance in the discussion of experienced refs trying to call a fair game.

I don’t know what his upside. But you would have to say he outperformed your expectations of him. In such a case it doesn’t make sense to conclude such a player cannot possibly get better.

Tied for 3rd highest number of turnovers by a QB this year.

so thirsty...

that would be Mike Jasper, Christian Wade and a dome...

True Josh didn't have much other than "Shady". And true, there was some promise shown. But you're saying that Jones, a guy no one expected much from who turned out to be a top 15 QB as a rookie has zero potential to get better ("upside")? My point in all of this is I don't know how that conclusion can come so soon. Posters here said the same thing about Brady for years on end. And certainly many on and off this board said the same about Josh after 1 year (some still do!).

There's the John from Riverside white flag retreat! My points weren't complicated. If you can't make a cogent argument then by all means stop mischaracterizing mine. lol "you think he's Tom Brady". yeah, that's what I said!

The best/most experienced refs are going to miss calls or make bad calls. They are made without bad intent so they really can't be simply corrected by money. Again, unless you think they are intentionally making the wrong calls, I don't know how docking their pay/fining (these are all the same thing)for a "bad game" is going to prevent any ref or crew from having a future bad game. Do you think they are thinking "I have to be a much better ref today than last week or they will pay me less for this game"? Of course not. Can you name any other major sports league where they fine refs/umps or withhold full contractually owed pay/salary for bad calls? Fines don't prevent players for committing stupid/finable penalties and they never will. It doesn't work.

High balls? Lot/high rate of interceptions? Who's rookie year are you talking about now? I was comparing Josh's and Jones's rookie seasons based on expectations and actual results. The Bills were a 9-7 playoff drought ending team before McD blew it all up and Allen came on board. Allen wasn't drafted as some down the road prospect. His results were not initially encouraging and any claim that was a consensus even on this board that he would become what he has in 2 more years is a laughable fabrication. Revisionist history. No one expected NE to make it to the playoffs with some kid with less than two seasons of college QB'ing (at Bama, no less) or was going to be the best QB of his draft his rookie year. Certainly you did not. Then you objected to my comparison to Brady's first starting season. Specifically, you said: "Brady was pin point accurate coming out the gate....Mac Jones is afraid to throw the ball down the field and when he does he throws high balls and a lot of almost interceptions (to go along with the interceptions)" And all of those claims are easily proven false, as I noted. And you claim now that, 21 years ago, you knew there was "something special about Brady", then next you will tell us that you bought Netflix when it was 71 cents a share. Not credible.

How it doesn’t work announcements are made by downstate lawmakers alerting the public of their opposition. Everyone knows that public money will be spent. The point is how much. This is where the legislators tell the governor (not you and me) how much they would approve. Pretty simple. And there’s no reason for the Bills to move at all. Perils can afford to close any gap in funding with cash on hand. If he moves the team it’s because he wants to.

He hardly gets any as it is--far fewer than Josh.