Alphadawg7

Hodgins has 2 paths to the final 53...one in his control, and one not in his control. In his control: ST Impact - Bottom line, if you are going to be a WR 6 or 7, you have to be reliable on ST. There is just no other reason to keep them given those guys will not likely see but a handful of snaps, if any, at WR during the season. No one outside the top 5 WR on the depth chart have even amassed a 100 yards on the season the past 2 years. Out of his control: Crowder doesn't make the final 53 - If Crowder ends up being a surprise cut/trade, that would open up a spot for a 5th WR, which at that point, your ability as a receiver plays a bigger role in final roster decisions because you will likely see the field some, and could play more if any injuries happen during the season. So ST impact doesn't weigh quite as heavy as it would for a WR6 or WR7 would. I guess one could argue part of this is in Hodgins control, and that is he needs to play well enough they have the confidence to keep him as the 5th WR over someone more accomplished like Crowder. But ultimately, I think its more on Crowder on whether or not he starts to make a case he must be on the final 53 over these next 2 weeks after falling behind while dealing with minor injuries. Thats really it for Hodgins, and he is trending in the right direction right now and I think gone from an after thought to at the very least a real tough decision. The one thing about Hodgins is we have never seen him with the ones though and he has struggled with injuries. Crowder is still 28 and shown he can produce as a starter even though his whole career he was saddled with bad QB's in bad offenses on losing teams. So I still think Crowder has a solid shot to remain on the 53, so Hodgins probably needs to demonstrate he can be reliable on ST IMHO to make this team.

I called this back in FA, that keep an eye on Settle, he might end up being our best FA signing this offseason. Personally, I think Jones will play more on obvious rushing downs and Settle on more obvious passing downs. He can get penetration and QB pressure up the middle. This DL might be real nasty this year.

I just meant he was one of the best of his era, although his career was short. The other guys were not the best of their era at their positions. But, I also thought Boselli played more like 7 years and didnt realize it was only 5. So now that I have seen that, I would say none of the ones who got in should have made it and there are 5 better choices on the semifinalist list than these 5 guys.

I don't think they really plan to ever see Cook elevate to a primary ball carrier. I think with his size, the plan is to have him as a guy who at most splits carries with a primary runner but is a regular receiving weapon out of the backfield with the hopes he can be a lot like Kamara and Ingram were for the Saints during their peaks. And people writing off Devin already now is premature. He isn't likely someone who is going to command a huge FA deal at RB, those deals are usually reserved for the top end of the position. Devin is more in line with a good to pretty good RB, but not among the leagues best. And if he wants to stay in Buffalo, its possible he gives them a home town discount still too. Moss certainly could bounce back this year and take over next year (or draft someone too), just saying I wouldn't just assume Devin is a goner no matter what at this point.

Players on the back end of the depth chart...how much value do they have at their respective positions? Fielding the top offense in the AFC 2 years in a row, our 5th WR (McKenzie) averaged just 25 rec and 240 yards for the season, and that includes a 17 game season, injuries to Brown, Sanders, and Beasley over that span. No one behind him even had 100 yards. Devin and Moss have dominated the run production too over that span. So, keeping a 6th and/or 7th WR that does not improve ST doesn't really make a lot of sense given they wont likely see many, if any, snaps on the filed as a WR. Same with a 4th/5th RB. Yet being able to vastly improve a 3rd unit (Special Teams) is more valuable than someone just sitting on the bench with no role for the entirety of a game. I would rather be strong in all 3 phases of the game than weaken one just to keep a guy who wont play at their respective positions. Its not an exact science either though, maybe you have a very good but not yet ready young player you know you cant stash on PS, well then you may need to keep him and find a ST player to stash at another position. But overall, unless you got someone that is too good to let go, those deeper guys really need to be able to improve ST if they want to make the team. That is why every coach will preach the best way to make the team is on ST for those deeper bench guys.

Still was one of the greatest of his to ever play his position IMHO. But yeah, longevity is also a valid point

IMHO only one guy this year (Boselli) deserved the induction to the HOF. There are guys on the semi finalist list with a lot better cases than several of these guys IMHO. I mean it’s not the Hall of the he very good. It’s supposed to be the best of their eras. https://www.nfl.com/_amp/pro-football-hall-of-fame-reveals-26-semifinalists-for-class-of-2022

Personally, I think it's always been one of 2 options...he is on the 53 or gets traded if Beane gets an intriguing offer. I didn't think Moss was ever in danger of being dumped in a trade like for peanuts or flat out cut without having a terrible camp to prompt that. I do agree the most likely scenario is Moss makes the 53. I think to trade him, Beane would have to get a good offer, and that seems unlikely given he is coming off a forgettable season. But to the team, in a SB push, Moss has value as a backup and also has value for next season when it comes to making a decision on Devin's future.

I don't see it as a "must" keep him, be cool if he made it, but it's not a need to do type thing. The reality is we have fielded the #1 offense in the AFC 2 consecutive years, and the 5th WR on depth chart averaged just 25 rec for 230 yards, including one of those seasons being a 17 game season. No one behind the 5th guy even registered 100 total yards, and in both seasons we saw injuries to our #2 WRs and also our #3 WR last year...still didn't get any action from the depth guys as a WR. What that means, is Hodgins is going to need to contribute on ST if he is going to make this team because he won't likely see any meaningful amount of snaps as a WR. I like Hodgins, and will be rooting for him to make the team. And I will say he has gone from an after thought early in camp to guy who now has at least made the decision tough and trending in the right direction. But the reality is this team will be hard to make, and he has at the very least Diggs, Davis, McKenzie and Shakir ahead of him, and there is still the possibility Crowder finds a roster spot. So I still think Hodgins will likely have to show he can play ST if he wants to make this a "must" keep situation.

All of the observations in this whole post are pretty obvious and accurate. Wasn't hard to see who helped their case and who hurt their case with the game yesterday. However, I do agree with one of the responding posters that I think a bit too much is being read into Zack Moss here off of 3 carries. Moss has always seemed to be a pretty safe bet to be on the active 53, but Devin has arguably had an even better camp than Moss and reportedly looks even better than he did last year. So I don't think these 3 carries are evidence that Devin won't still get the lions share of the carries between the 2. While I do think most likely Moss is here week 1, there is also still another possibility here, and one Beane has done before. Cook has been showing some real potential as a runner himself, and the best comments so far about Moss this camp IMHO came from Beane. So if they are looking at Cook as more than just a receiving specialist and want to get him carries too, its not out of the question they talked Moss up a bit and then featured him in this first game to see if it might spark a potential interesting trade offer.

In 10 healthy games he averaged 3 Rec for 40 yards last season with 1 TD. So his play was down and he’s battling injuries. It’s all good, just seemed like a weird thread to start where you seemingly took a victory lap over a routine catch in practice with people playing half speed and announced all the I told you so’s you plan to do. And I’m not even saying he can’t bounce back, although I doubt he does to the levels you’re expecting.

For a thread that seems to be about Julio having a big season, you seem to just keep talking about Brady. Julio is 33, coming off the worst season of his entire career (and worst by a lot) and coming off back to back seasons where he missed at least 7 games. And he’s coming into a team that overall got worse not better this offseason, especially on the OL and is the third option once Godwin is officially back on the field. And you want to compare this to a pissed off 29 year old Randy Moss getting traded to the Pats to play with prime Brady as the number 1 target in NE when it had its best offense in history? Funniest part about that comparison, is in Randy’s season where he was Julio’s age, he had 28 total receptions for 393 yards playing for 3 different teams in one season (Pats, Vikings, and Titans). Sorry but these situations are not similar. Can Julio have a bounce back gear compared to his pitiful career worst last year, sure it’s possible. Comparing it to Randy Moss joining NE feels extremely unlikely and far fetched. But again, who the heck cares? What is your obsession over this if it’s not about the Bills? Like this thread makes no sense unless you’re trying to make some point Julio should be a Bill…which he never was a candidate to be in the first place.

Stop making so much sense, it will cause the servers to crash

If its not a "We should have signed Julio" message here, then what exactly are you going to be saying "I told you so" about? I mean, Julio may or may not have a good season in TB...but honestly, who cares one way or another? He was never an option here, never pursued by the Bills, and has no relevancy to Buffalo Bills in any capacity. So don't know what it is you are seeking being "right about" here on TSW. Talent isn't the issue with Julio, age and health is. He has missed 7 games each of the last 2 seasons, and staying healthy at his age doesn't get easier. So its entirely possible he has a bounce back year considering how bad his last season was, where even if he had played all 17 games last year, his totals would have been the lowest of his career at 53 rec and 730 yards with 2 TDs. But again, why would any of us care if he does or doesn't?

Just do this every time he uses his hands 😂

This guy is the Skip Bayless of criticizing the offense. I swear he does it for click bait to just ruffle feathers for a way to get more views/interactions. Its like its his kink to run to twitter and report any single unsuccessful offensive play he sees. 20 reporters can be raving about how good the offense looks and he will tweet out it was meh or not hitting expectations still.

I mean literally every single Bills camp there are WR's making this same play (and better ones) who don't make our roster or even the PS. So I think you are over exaggerating a pretty standard completed pass during soft practice drills. Julio is a sure fire hall of famer and he might have a bounce back year. But he isn't going to be anything near what he was in Atlanta, especially sharing targets with 2 other pro bowl WR's who are younger and have rapport and experience already with Brady. So this combo doesn't scare me, not to mention, Brady's OL is gonna be worse, so he might be running for his life there in a real game and not even make that throw. So, this post feels over exaggerated a bit IMHO. And I would take Gave Davis this year 100 times over Julio Jones this year, so if this is some back door disappointment thread we didn't sign Julio, then my thoughts are good, we didn't need him. We don't need OBJ either, but at least he can run out of the slot if by some off chance we sign him later. But we honestly don't really need OBJ either.

Yeah they seem to definitely be working on his weaknesses and he seems to be responding well and getting better. Elam is someone I think has the drive, coachability, and intelligence to rapidly improve theses areas. I assume if Tre is back week 1 that Dane starts opposite him week 1. But Elam IMHO has a very bright future ahead of him

In regards to Elam vs Benford Its way too early to read anything into either of these players yet. If Benford ends up being a very good player and starter, doesn’t mean Elam is a mistake, bust or what ever. I mean no one enters a draft with the mindset you’re gonna bank on finding a 5th rounder who ascends to your starter week 1. Once you’re drafted, that’s it. Draft status means nothing other than what you’re gonna get paid on your first contract. After that, it’s all about what you do on the field. And if Benford was to surprise and appear more ready to start week 1, by no means does that end Elams career or make him a bust. Not every rookie is ready to start week 1. If they feel Elam is still working on being too handsy for instance, they may work him along slower. But all in all, I think the info coming out on both is good news and good to see. Both seem to be improving, and both might prove to be good players

Well it could be...I mean Tre is an all pro corner, amongst the best of his position in the NFL. His starting spot commands more respect than a 2nd year guy coming off a solid start to his career before getting hurt. Tre will not have to win his job at all when healthy. Brown on the other hand, showed promise, but didn't play so well that his starting spot is indisputable. So Spencer needs to get healthy then prove hes the best starter still. Tre doesn't have to prove anything, so I think thats the difference. But I bet they still believe Spencer will win the job, if not they would have more aggressively addressed the position IMHO.

I think people forget that Crowder would start on the majority of teams across the NFL right now. We are not as thin as people think. And you have Crowder as the 5th guy on your list. Most teams don't have 28 year old accomplished starting receivers as their 5th guy on the depth chart. 2020, John Brown missed a lot of the season and even when back was not 100%. Yet our 5th WR, McKenzie, only totaled 30 receptions for 283 yards, and almost no production from the guys behind him. 2021, both Sanders and Beasley miss some time and our 5th WR on the depth chart, again McKenzie, manages just 20 reception for 183 yards for the season (with the vast majority of that coming in one game) with the next guy behind him having just 28 yards on the season. End of the day, anyone below the 4th WR spot, even with injuries, will not see very much production at all. We don't need to sign OBJ, we are already 5 WRs deep in just Diggs, Davis, Crowder, Shakir, and McKenzie. Outside those 5 guys, no other WR will even reach 100 yards on the season even if we see some guys miss time. Not to mention, our RBs as a whole will see more targets this year with the addition of Cook, plus we are looking like we are running more 2 TE sets, which will also reduce snaps for some of the WRs in the middle of the depth chart. I wont be mad if we sign OBJ, but we are in no way at all thin at WR right now. Signing OBJ would be a luxury, not a need.

Yeah not really any financial reason to move on from Crowder, so I still think he likely makes the final roster given he is still only 28 and a pretty good player. With this being a SB or bust type season, I think it probably makes the most sense to keep the best players. And Crowder is definitely a more accomplished and better player than Hodgins. But, then again, with Shakir and McKenzie having such strong camps, if some other team gets hit with a key injury at WR, then wouldn't surprise me to see Beane make a trade if he gets something decent back.

I dont think he is playing the martyr by any means. I think its more than fair for him to be unhappy with his current contract, the situation, or the team itself. But to each their own, ok to agree to disagree bud All good

ST stats don't at all tell the story on contributions. The coaches have continuously praised Kumerows ST contributions where each player has a specific role on every kick. Containing your lane and forcing the returner into the coverage to force a tackle is just as important, if not more important than the player who actually gets credited with the tackle most the time. The vast majority of ST tackles are a direct result of not giving a pathway for the runner to find a lane. Kumerow without question has a leg up on Hodgins from a ST perspective. So if it came down to Kumerow or Hodgins, it wont matter if they feel Hodgins offers more as a WR that will never see the field, it will absolutely come down to whether or not they believe Hodgins can contribute on ST and if they have someone who can fill Kumerows role. Not to mention, Kumerow doesn't have the same injury concerns Hodgins has. To show just how meaningless these lower bench WR's are in terms of offensive contributions...As essentially the 5th WR on the depth chart the last 2 years, everyones favorite McKenzie has averaged just 25 receptions for 240 yards a SEASON as a backup slot WR, with blazing speed, and playing in the number 1 offense in the AFC the last 2 years. Last year, outside the NE game, McKenzie had just 9 rec and 53 yards total in the other 16 games of the year. Nobody else behind him had even 100 yards on the season. This year, we likely have Diggs, Davis, McKenzie, Shakir, Crowder making up the top 5 WR's, of which someone is barely going to have any production. The 6th and 7th WRs (if we keep 7) wont likely see the field as a receiver much at all. Not to mention we have Cook which will likely increase the total targets to RB's this year, plus Knox and Howard playing a lot of 2 TE sets. So whoever the 6th and 7th WR's are (if we even keep 7) will definitely be guys who they feel can be good and reliable ST players too. There is a reason why they tell these guys deeper down the bench across the roster that if you want to make this team you do it on ST.

This is gonna be tough, nothing against him, but this wont be an easy roster to make. Obviously, Diggs and Davis are going no where, and neither is Shakir given there is 0% chance they could successfully stash him on the PS, not to mention, he has been having an outstanding camp too. McKenzie as well, he isn't likely going anywhere at this point unless Beane decides he needs to make a trade to make room for someone, then McKenzie might be the only guy who would have any trade value (as they are not trading Davis, Diggs, or Shakir). But other than that, its safe to pencil these 4 in. Then you probably still have Crowder and potentially a KR specialist. Recently McKenzie and even Shakir have taken snaps as the primary returner, so if one of them locks down the job as a primary returner, then that makes the path easier for Hodgins to make the roster. But we already know they were not happy with McKenzie last year as a returner, and while Shakir did some in college, it wasn't what he was known for. So if we keep those 4 above, plus Crowder and a KR guy, that would mean we would have to keep 7 WRs for Hodgins to have a chance to make the team. And that 7th spot will likely also have to be someone who can prove they can be a reliable contributor on ST too. So not only is Hodgins competing as a WR against guys like Tavon, Stevenson, Kumerow, Pau'u, etc...he also competing to show he can be good on ST, something Kumerow for example has already proven he can be. Ive always liked Hodgins potential, so be cool to see him keep growing and make the team. But assuming there are no injuries or surprise cuts/trades at WR, then he likely needs to see us keep 7 to a real chance to make this team, and at the same time prove he can be relied upon on ST.