No wonder Wilson says he can't compete...

[JohnC]

It isn't all about the money? So you think that Ralph is keeping these guys around because it's his master plan to have a team that misses the playoffs annually? Let me know when you've figured-out what argument you're trying to make here. Because the Colts and Chargers for the majority of the 90's were "laughingstocks" as well.

 

And you didn't answer my question. How much do you spend on games? How many games have you gone to in the past decade?

 

You asked an excellent question: Why does the grumpy owner keep his front office in tact when they have been dismal failures? Who knows why? Maybe it doesn't cost as much as a highly competent GM would cost? Maybe the owner is just a nutcase who likes to fire people who are successful and retain incompetent employees? The irony is that Bill Polian was outrageosly successful in fielding successful teams for Buffalo; he gets fired. However, Tom Modrak and John Guy have consistently been fielding a boring and losing team. Their reward is job security. Silly isn't it.

 

You also bring up the scenario that the Colts and Chargers for the 90s were "laughingstocks" as the Bills presently are. The reason they dramatically turned things around is they both got quality football GMs in Polian and Butler/Smith who knew how to build a winning team. Each of these knowledgeable football gentlemen were fired by the clown owner of the Bills, Ralph Wilson. Since their departures the Bills have been in a long slump.

 

With respect to how much I spend on games and how many games I have gone to, what is the relevance of your question?

[nucci]

You asked an excellent question: Why does the grumpy owner keep his front office in tact when they have been dismal failures? Who knows why? Maybe it doesn't cost as much as a highly competent GM would cost? Maybe the owner is just a nutcase who likes to fire people who are successful and retain incompetent employees? The irony is that Bill Polian was outrageosly successful in fielding successful teams for Buffalo; he gets fired. However, Tom Modrak and John Guy have been consistently mediocre fielding a boring and losing team. Their reward is job security. Silly isn't it.

 

You also bring up the scenario that the Colts and Chargers for the 90s were "laughingstocks" as the Bills presently are. The reason they dramatically turned things around is they both got quality football GMs in Polian and Butler/Smith who knew how to build a winning team. Each of these knowledgeable football gentlemen were fired by the clown owner of the Bills, Ralph Wilson. Since their departures the Bills have been in a long slump.

 

With respect to how much I spend on games and how many games I have gone to, what is the relevance of your question?

Why do you constantly have to personally attack Wilson with childish name-calling. Wonder if you would ever do it to his face if you have the chance to meet the man? I'm guessing you hide behind the internet.

:wallbash: :wallbash:

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

Why do you constantly have to personally attack Wilson with childish name-calling. Wonder if you would ever do it to his face if you have the chance to meet the man? I'm guessing you hide behind the internet.

:wallbash:

 

 

No need to guess, nucci. You nailed it.

[ThereIsNoDog]

You asked an excellent question: Why does the grumpy owner keep his front office in tact when they have been dismal failures? Who knows why? Maybe it doesn't cost as much as a highly competent GM would cost? Maybe the owner is just a nutcase who likes to fire people who are successful and retain incompetent employees? The irony is that Bill Polian was outrageosly successful in fielding successful teams for Buffalo; he gets fired. However, Tom Modrak and John Guy have consistently been fielding a boring and losing team. Their reward is job security. Silly isn't it.

 

You also bring up the scenario that the Colts and Chargers for the 90s were "laughingstocks" as the Bills presently are. The reason they dramatically turned things around is they both got quality football GMs in Polian and Butler/Smith who knew how to build a winning team. Each of these knowledgeable football gentlemen were fired by the clown owner of the Bills, Ralph Wilson. Since their departures the Bills have been in a long slump.

Polian is gone. Get over it. The Bills had 4 shots to win the SB under him and failed, mostly because they didn't face pretenders like the Bears in the SB's. And given his irascible nature, he wouldn't have survivied after the Bills missed the playoffs in 1995, at best. As for Butler, he died, so I don't know what you're getting at there.

 

With respect to how much I spend on games and how many games I have gone to, what is the relevance of your question?

Because I've found that those who claim they "would" spend more, actually don't spend anything at all currently. IOW, it's all talk. So, how many games do you see a year? I'm guessing by your evasiveness, none.

[RLflutie7]

JJ is on the hook for $600 million, hence the crazy prices. Ralph only makes money at the "Ralph". He doesn't have a $600 mil debt to cover.

 

Also, JJ isn't crying about his financial position.

 

 

Although the economy is turning around, I think JJ could lose his team if he doesn't find partners. He may need to sell a third of the team or almost half.

 

I don't think he's going to find buyers at half the price for those suites. Sports and the NFL made a big mistake going after corporate money. I always new it would dry up.

[RLflutie7]

Reason #17,875 on why I hate the Dallas Cowboys.

 

When your team hasn't won a playoff game in 13 years, you can't afford to be arrogant. I don't know where the Cowboys will finish this year (in a down time for the NFC East, they could win the division), but with the economy failing to improve, the Cowboys could have some empty seats in that new Taj Mahal they built.

 

Now is the new stadium the best ever? From what I'm hearing, it could very well be. But my guess is, with the fact that Jones is on the hook for at least $750 million dollars, is that we have hit the ceiling on sports palaces, as someone said earlier.

 

And BTW, I think there's a good chance of a lockout in 2011, after the uncapped year. Where will Jerry Jones be then, when there's no team to play in the stadium and he's in the third year of the highest debt service in NFL history?

 

 

He's probabaly going to sell it to China.

[Just Jack]

He's probabaly going to sell it to China.

The Dallas Rice Pickers? Beijing Cowboys?

[ExiledInIllinois]

JJ is on the hook for $600 million, hence the crazy prices. Ralph only makes money at the "Ralph". He doesn't have a $600 mil debt to cover.

 

Also, JJ isn't crying about his financial position.

 

Watch. You will see the Cowboy's make the playoffs and a "tuck rule" will magically appear to propel them into the SuperBowl.

 

 

The best thing that can happen to the Cowboys? They go 0-16. The league will never allow that to happen! The league will do everyting in its power to make sure the Cowboys are successful on the field as not to alienate the Dallas fans!

[Flbillsfan#1]

Although the economy is turning around, I think JJ could lose his team if he doesn't find partners. He may need to sell a third of the team or almost half.

 

I don't think he's going to find buyers at half the price for those suites. Sports and the NFL made a big mistake going after corporate money. I always new it would dry up.

Art Modell was only able to sell half of his team by agreeing to sell the other half after a few years. Lets hope Jerry has the same luck.

[oak tree 12]

There was an article on Yahoo talking about how a suite in the Cowboys new stadium costs 800K per year, and doesn't even include any tickets to the games. In addition, each suite has menus available to order from, which include:

 

A Plain Large Pizza(no toppings) for $90!!!

A 12 pack of domestic beer for $66!!

A 4 pack of Red Bull for $22!!

 

 

Are you freaking kidding me?!?!? $90 for a pizza with no toppings?? What the hell is it made out of? Gold?

 

I cannot fathom why you would pay 800K for a luxury box that doesn't include tickets or any food while you are there...almost all other suites in other stadiums include both tickets and food for much less....

 

Unbelievable...

 

No wonder why Wilson is always talking about how he can't compete anymore...

 

Cowboys offering $90 Pizzas...

 

yea and all the brain dead as-holes keep ripping wilson for being cheap. wilson is lucky to get 45 K for his boxes.

 

the only thing that is cheap is their BS talk.

 

in reality the bills are always in the top half of the league in regards to team payroll and the idiots call the guy cheap go figure!

[JohnC]

yea and all the brain dead as-holes keep ripping wilson for being cheap. wilson is lucky to get 45 K for his boxes.

 

the only thing that is cheap is their BS talk.

 

in reality the bills are always in the top half of the league in regards to team payroll and the idiots call the guy cheap go figure!

 

Whether Wilson spends a lot or a little is not the issue. The issue is competency. The Bills ranked 29 out of 32 teams for its dismal record over the past decade. That is a fact. The Bills have not been in the playoffs for nine consecutive years. That is a fact. The top front office staff, Tom Modrak and John Guy, hired by Donahoe, has been with the team during this futile decade. The HC goes 7-9 for three consecutive years, and then is given an extension. The person heading the organization is a marketing specialist. You judge an organization by its performance over an extended period of time. By any measure the Bills' organization has blatantly failed.

 

An example of a successful organization is Pittsburgh. They have outstanding and committed owners, Rooneys. They have a high quality front office and have selected exceptional HCs over the past generation or more. They do not run a high expense operation. Some people even describe them as frugal. Why do they consistently win, including a number of SBs? They select people who are knowledgeable and competent to run their team. They run an intelligent operation. That is why they regularly win. The Bills consistently lose because as an organization they are embarrassingly inept.

[NewHampshireBillsFan]

Whether Wilson spends a lot or a little is not the issue. The issue is competency. The Bills ranked 29 out of 32 teams for its dismal record over the past decade. That is a fact. The Bills have not been in the playoffs for nine consecutive years. That is a fact. The top front office staff, Tom Modrak and John Guy, hired by Donahoe, has been with the team during this futile decade. The HC goes 7-9 for three consecutive years, and then is given an extension. The person heading the organization is a marketing specialist. You judge an organization by its performance over an extended period of time. By any measure the Bills' organization has blatantly failed.

 

An example of a successful organization is Pittsburgh. They have outstanding and committed owners, Rooneys. They have a high quality front office and have selected exceptional HCs over the past generation or more. They do not run a high expense operation. Some people even describe them as frugal. Why do they consistently win, including a number of SBs? They select people who are knowledgeable and competent to run their team. They run an intelligent operation. That is why they regularly win. The Bills consistently lose because as an organization they are embarrassingly inept.

 

Although I am excited on some level to see Wilson enter the HOF, the Pittsburgh/Buffalo comparison is always the most painful for me. Both are relatively small cities in the same region of the country. One has been spectacularly successful, the other never quite good enough in their best years with many painful years between successful runs. All three of the Bills most successful coaches were either forced out and/or wanted to get out and this was also true of Polian/Butler/Smith on the personnel side. Pittsburgh has only had 3 HC's in 40 years and all won SBs. When they had the Cowher/Donahoe spat, the Steelers made the right choice who to keep and we made the wrong choice on who to hire. The issue always has come down in Buffalo to having an owner who would rather interfere with and eventually get rid of a top quality person who was annoying to him on some level than do everything he could to win a SB. The result is we are 0 for 43.

[RyanC883]

It's very simple. Those $800,000.00 per year suites that Jerry Jones is trying to sell? That is considered UNSHARED REVENUE for NFL teams. Even if Jones only sold 5 out of 15 he may have to sell, that $4 Million dollars is money he does not have to share with the other NFL teams. Consequently, he could use that $4 Million dollars that Ralph Wilson has no way of earning himself, as a signing bonus for a free agent and there would be nothing Ralph could do to "compete" with that.

 

 

Good point. As far as I know they do not include signing bonuses in the salary cap. This is something that needs to be changed.

[K-9]

Good point. As far as I know they do not include signing bonuses in the salary cap. This is something that needs to be changed.

 

Signing bonuses are most definately counted against the cap. They are prorated over the length of a contract. EX: If a player gets a 5m bonus on a 5 year contract, that bonus counts as 1m per year against the cap. If the player is cut, the prorated amount is accelerated into the current year.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

Signing bonuses are most definately counted against the cap. They are prorated over the length of a contract. EX: If a player gets a 5m bonus on a 5 year contract, that bonus counts as 1m per year against the cap. If the player is cut, the prorated amount is accelerated into the current year.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

 

Exactly right. The problem with signing bonuses is not that they do not count under the cap, but that the team/owner has to be wealthy enough to be able to come up with it all at once, which is no small thing. Salaries themselves, as anyone will tell you, are virtually covered by the TV contract; only a select few have 10+ million smackers handy to give to a free agent. In that sense, there is not a completely level playing field, even with a salary cap.

[Flbillsfan#1]

Exactly right. The problem with signing bonuses is not that they do not count under the cap, but that the team/owner has to be wealthy enough to be able to come up with it all at once, which is no small thing. Salaries themselves, as anyone will tell you, are virtually covered by the TV contract; only a select few have 10+ million smackers handy to give to a free agent. In that sense, there is not a completely level playing field, even with a salary cap.

That is exactly right. The Bucs could not sign free agents they would have liked this off season because the Glazers are having cash flow problems due to the purchase of Manchester United.

[billsfan89]

To me the problem with Ralph isn't what he spends (He is usually in the middle of the pack in terms of spending on his teams) its what he spends on coaching and Management. He has never in my life time spent big bucks on a head coach. To his credit he brought in TD as a GM but now he has Russ (Who has done an OK job). To me its the fact that while he spends money on big things like player pay roll he seems to just cheap out on the smaller things like Coaches and assistant coaches.

 

If the Bills hired a bigger name coach during the TD era odds are they might have made the playoffs during that era. Its frustrating to see our head coaching situation with a below par guy like DJ. I understand Ralph wants to make a profit but if we miss the playoffs again this season please spend money on a proven coach.

[JohnC]

Although I am excited on some level to see Wilson enter the HOF, the Pittsburgh/Buffalo comparison is always the most painful for me. Both are relatively small cities in the same region of the country. One has been spectacularly successful, the other never quite good enough in their best years with many painful years between successful runs. All three of the Bills most successful coaches were either forced out and/or wanted to get out and this was also true of Polian/Butler/Smith on the personnel side. Pittsburgh has only had 3 HC's in 40 years and all won SBs. When they had the Cowher/Donahoe spat, the Steelers made the right choice who to keep and we made the wrong choice on who to hire. The issue always has come down in Buffalo to having an owner who would rather interfere with and eventually get rid of a top quality person who was annoying to him on some level than do everything he could to win a SB. The result is we are 0 for 43.

 

Your observations are right on target. Teams such as the Steelers, Eagles, Ravens, Titans etc have done well on the field not primarily because they spend more money on players, but because their football operations (front office) is competent and make excellent personnel decisions, including coaching selections. Even the Patriots are not as profligate as many people believe. They make a lot of tough cap decisions and are not reluctant to play hardball in contract negotiations. What distinguishes the Pats is their front office and coaching staff under Bilichick. One of the top scouts in the organization was Dimitroff. He was hired by the Falcons last year after the defection of Petrino and the chaos created by Michael Vick. In one offseason he gave that team a direction and changed the culture within the organization. They had an excellent draft, which included signing their franchise qb in Ryan, he made an exceptional free agent pickup in RB Michael Turner, he dispatched players who didn't want to be there and he made an excellent selection in his HC (Smith). Scott Pioli was the GM for the Patriots during their sterling decade, which included a number of SBs. Over the last decade the Pats ranked #1 in victories. He was signed by the Chiefs this past offseason. Does anyone doubt that in a few years he will turn things around?

 

The point I'm stressing is that unless a strong front office staff is assembled under a competent GM the Bills will continue to struggle on the field. The Dolphins immediately turned it around under Parcells. They went from a one win season to winning the Division and making the playoffs. Although Parcells got most of the credit, which he deserved, the ingredients to his success were in hiring high quality personnel staff such as Ireland, his personnel chief, and assembling a strong HC, Sporano, who enforced the concept of accountability.

 

The owner of the Bills has elected to retain the main front office staff, Tom Modrak and John Guy, both brought in by Tom Modrak. They have been with the Bills nearly a decade where the Bills ranked 29 out of 32 teams for wins. Why are they still have jobs in the front office? Dick Jauron went 7-9 for three consecutive years. He finished the season 2-8 and he went 0-6 against divisional opponents. He was given an extension. The person who took over for the congenial Marv Levy to overseas the organization, Russ Brandon, came from the marketing side of the organization.

 

Our owner is 90 or 91 years old. One would think that there would be a greater urgency on his part to turn his struggling franchise around by installing a high quality front office team. From what I have seen, he doesn't have the desire or ability to do what is required to make this team a relevant team again. The fans of western NY have been very loyal. It is a shame. They don't deserve such long term mediocrity.

[JohnC]

Good point. As far as I know they do not include signing bonuses in the salary cap. This is something that needs to be changed.

 

A large percentage of the revenue Jerry Jones generates will be going to pay off the bonds used for building the stadium. He has a tremendous debt load he has to service. Ralph Wilson has no little or no debt because a stadium was provided for him, in total. In addition, some of the revenue Jones generates goes to smaller market teams, such as Buffalo.

 

Do the Cowboys have financial resources greater than the Bills and most other teams? Of course. But teams such as Steelers, Carolina, Tennessee etc are able to successfully compete because they run smarter football operations. As many others have noted, having more resources doesn't guarantee success on the field. Dallas and Washington have demonstrated that point.

[DIE HARD 1967]

I saw an article months back that claims the cheapest seat is $350.00, then you get wacked with a $2000 franchise fee!

 

Just think of that, you and your wife and 2 kids can enjoy a game $1400.00 and sit in the cheap seats at the top of the stadium.

 

That is like a double mortgage payment for 3 hours of football and you don't even get a decent seat.

 

I blame the fans for buying tickets....and the price is only going to go up in the future