mousetrap08 Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Stupid poll. That's like asking, "what's better - a Travis Henry booger or an Antwoine Smith turd"? yuuck!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 RJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock'em Sock'em Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 The game where RJ took the job away from Flutie against the Colts was one of the more impressive games I've seen from a Bills Qb. Not certain, but I think RJ won the job against the 49ers. The memorable play in the following game (other than the miracle) was when RJ's shoe came off near the end of the game as time was running out and he completes the pass on 3rd and long in stocking feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldingerbro Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Todd Collins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 You have to take RJ. He went 9-17 in Buffalo, whereas Losman went 10-23. RJ: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JohnRo00.htm JP: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LosmJ.00.htm I hate giving QBs a W/L record but it is interesting to see RJ went 3-0 with Jacksonville/Tampa Bay. Also he started his Bills career 03 which means he finished off 9-14 which isn't a real bad record. So perhaps as said many a time then I really think we just had to give him more time to develop on the field or in other words it was a mistake to make him sit almost the entire 1999 season. Not certain, but I think RJ won the job against the 49ers. The memorable play in the following game (other than the miracle) was when RJ's shoe came off near the end of the game as time was running out and he completes the pass on 3rd and long in stocking feet. I agree with you on the 49er game because everyone also seems to forget how great RJ played in that game and the prior week against St Louis. Of course he did get hurt in the St Louis game and unfortunately Flutie wasn't able to kill the clock see game story RJ missed the final series nor was the defense able to stop Tony Banks and as a result marked as a loss for RJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Romes Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 This poll makes me sick....Mathison or Dufek? I brought this same topic up a few months ago... http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?showtopic=79615 Its not valid to compare the rj/jp comparison to the mathison/dufek comparison. The bills paid a kings ransom for both rj and jp, each of whom was brought in to be the franchise quarterback. So, RJ and JP belong in a special category of ex bills qbs - expensive putative franchise qbs. Also, as I noted in my December post they had similar games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turn Down For Watkins Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 I would have to go with JP, As bad as he was last year he still gave us some hope every now and than in 2006. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Philster Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 I brought this same topic up a few months ago... http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?showtopic=79615 Its not valid to compare the rj/jp comparison to the mathison/dufek comparison. The bills paid a kings ransom for both rj and jp, each of whom was brought in to be the franchise quarterback. So, RJ and JP belong in a special category of ex bills qbs - expensive putative franchise qbs. Also, as I noted in my December post they had similar games. RJ was 5 years, $25M JP was 5 years, $10.3M RJ was a bigger bust both on the field and against the cap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 That is easy. RJ. I just wish we had a decent line when he played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Neither guy had much peripheral vision, their down fall, along with fragile egos. But, all the elements right, RJ was a much better QB than JP. Not even very close, IMO. Granted, you could argue that RJ played on more talented teams than JP did, but the smallest nuances of the game just never seemed to come very easy to JP. People forget, RJ put together some very nice, solid games in his time in Buffalo. There was the shootout games against the Rams and 49'ers, as well as tough gritty performances in Kansas City and Tampa Bay, where RJ got the crap kicked out of him, but hung in there. The closest JP ever had to a "coming out" party was the 2006 game in Houston, with the two 83 yard strikes to Lee Evans, and the game winner to Peerless in the final seconds. But, the next week, he was back to his old inconsistent, mistake prone self. Good post, and you're right. RJ wins this one, and it's not even close. Johnson's Achilles heel was anything having to do with sacks: getting rid of the ball on time, pocket presence, injuries. Losman wasn't RJ-bad in those areas, but each of those things was still a significant weakness for him. Losman's strengths involved anything physical: his speed and his arm strength. Johnson didn't have Losman-level physical gifts, but he still had a good, strong arm and good quickness. Then there's everything else. Short passes. Intermediate passes. Even accuracy when throwing the long bomb. Johnson wins against Losman in each of those areas, hands-down. In many of those categories, Johnson destroys Losman. Touch on short passes. Accuracy and consistency in the intermediate passing game. Grasp of the mental side of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoName Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 good poll question by the way This is tough.....they both were very similiar....I think JP had more natural gifts than RJ......JP had the stronger arm, quicker feet but his accuracy.......I think RJ had slightly better accuracy .......both of their pocket presence was dreadful....I think I would go with RJ for two reasons.....for one, like the other guy said, RJ left that playoff game a winner and for two...for all the bone head plays that both of them made, it seems to me that JP mad more bone head game costing plays than RJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDD Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 RJ or JP? Forget it. Just drop back and punt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDD Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 RJ- Could play but no pocket presence. Sacks killed us. Too fragile. Head case no one liked. JP- Horrible accuracy. Only plays he made were downfield heaves Lee Evans ran under. Could never process plays on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VJ91 Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 RJ or JP? Forget it. Just drop back and punt. Best post on this subject, hands down! In my humble opinion, RJ gets the nod as the better more talented bust. Of course the jury is still out on JP, since he's still young and doesn't even know where his next NFL stop will be. RJ played some damn good football games for both Jacksonville and Buffalo, and Lost-man played one great game, against the Bengals when he actually threw for some decent yards. RJ played one really good playoff game on the road against an excellent Titans defense, and actually drove the Bills down for the winning field goal, if not for the worst special teams break down on a kick off in NFL history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordio Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 I have taken some heat on this board from time to time calling Losman a poor man's Rob Johnson, but that is exactly what he was. IMO, he did not have 1/2 the ability RJ did, whether it was scrambling or throwing. This idea that Losman has some cannon attached to his arm is more myth then fact. I just do not see it. With that being said they were both pretty bad. I will give the nod to Losman in one area. I think he actually enjoys playing the game. I always got the feeling with RJ that there was about 50 other things he would rather be doing on Sunday afternoons then playing football. I remember reading a story his first year here. It was when they started out 0-3 & then won 3 games in a row(including that last 2nd win against jville). Miami came into town & Flute & Moulds had a big 2nd half to come from behind & win the game.(still the loudest I have ever heard a crowd, in fact Jimmie Johnson said that was the loudest he ever heard any stadium - college or pro). Anyways there was a story after the game that Flutes brother & some of his friends came up for the game & after the game they were playing football in the stadium for hours after. Johnson saw this & a shouted to flutie, dont you ever get enough. & flutie basically told him that playing football is the most fun he has in life. Johnson's reply was " I cant remember the last time football was fun for me" as he left the stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderbread Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 I'll take a Travis Henry Booger over an Antione Smith turd anyday. JP. Contract $$ being the overall deciding factor, both were mediocre at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Romes Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 It seems like there is some revisionist history in this thread arguing that Rob Johnson was not all that bad. The thing to remember is that not only was Johson bad at avoiding the rush, he was historically bad. By a wide margin, the very worst in the history of the league. His career sack percentage was an unbelievable 14.8! http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JohnRo00.htm By comparison, statue-man Bledsoe was in the 6's (Marino in the 3's), Losman 9.9. Johnson understood that taking a sack never had an impact on the QB rating and consequently always built up a respectable to good rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Johnson understood that taking a sack never had an impact on the QB rating and consequently always built up a respectable to good rating. Do you think that the above is why he took sacks? That is hard to believe because it looked as though he was going to get killed on some of those plays. I think it was more of a panic mode setting in, combined with an inability to make a quick decision. RJ was imo a super talent. Like JP, he had every physical tool that a quarterback could possibly want. There are so few with this kind of ability that it makes it much harder for fans to accept it when these guys fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Philster Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 RJ took a lot of sacks because he was poorly coached in college. After the 2000 season but before they dumped the midget, former USC coach John Robinson came out and admitted that he had RJ coached to look for the big play. That, combined with the fact that RJ didn't have as much faith in his receivers as he should've, is why RJ held onto the ball so long and took a lot of sacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 RJ took a lot of sacks because he was poorly coached in college. After the 2000 season but before they dumped the midget, former USC coach John Robinson came out and admitted that he had RJ coached to look for the big play. That, combined with the fact that RJ didn't have as much faith in his receivers as he should've, is why RJ held onto the ball so long and took a lot of sacks Really? Is there a couch anywhere in America that "coaches" a guy into believing that there is an infinite amount of time he can stand there and hold the ball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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