Jackson Sitting Out

[BillsFan Trapped in Pats Land]

And by the way fellas, let's really try avoiding making this another Peters thread.

I'm hoping to turn it into a "Schoebel Holding Out.....Again" thread.

[SKOOBY]

Really?

 

Please detail Peters previous "game" two years ago, and fill us in on the time he missed, and the fit he threw.

 

Thank you in advance.

 

Peters complained in 2005 & got a $15 M extension, he made the probowl in 2007 and hasn't been happy since and asking for more money. So that looks to be about 2 years later to me.

 

Fill in the rest yourself.

[LynchMob23]

Look at it this way - the one thing Bill Cowher has said in his semi retirement is that if he has learned one thing, it's that you can't stress out like his usually would when a player wouldn't show up during "protest season". If it spills into the MNF game vs NE, or Training camp before that, then we may have something to talk about, otherwise, let's not go lambasting the front office just yet...

[drinkTHEkoolaid]

as much as i hate players sitting out.... jackson DESERVES a raise.

 

he has been nothing but hardworking and loyal to the team and nothing but a good team player (not causing problems)

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Another factor is that Freddie, in my view, is not a chump number two running back but more of a 1B type, someone who can pinch hit (such as in week 17) and do it very well. Like someone mentioned earlier, he's very similar in value to Kenneth Davis was. I would say he deserves to be paid at least around the level of the 40th best running back in the NFL. Probably higher.

 

That being said here's some relevant numbers:

 

$460,000: The amount the Bills would have to pay him to retain his rights.

 

$2 million: The total compensation for the 40th highest paid running back in the league (Michael Bennett, TB Bucs). Mewelde Moore and Lamont Jordan also make in this range.

 

$2.1 million: Jonathan Stewart, rookie 1st round pick of the Carolina Panthers

 

$2.35 million: Ladell Betts, considered one of the better backup running backs

 

$2.65 million: Marshawn Lynch

 

$3.0 million: Kevin Faulk, steady veteran who does everything well and nothing spectacular

 

$3.1 million: Chester Taylor, considered one of the better backup running backs

 

$6.6 million: 2009 NFL Franchise Tag amount

 

So we all agree Freddy deserves 2 year $5 million or 3 year $7.5 million roughly?

[Solomon Grundy]

Gee, apparently he's a malcontent and hates the Bills and his teammates and hates Buffalo. We should trade him. Who wants a guy who is not a team player and doesn't want to be here?

Good one.I love it. Maybe we can trade him and Jason Peters for a 1st and 2nd rd pick then draft a LT and RB to replace them. Kelly you hit a Home Run with that reply. Tell Fred Jackson he's not allowed to hold out until he makes the Pro Bowl.

[The Dean]

Peters complained in 2005

 

 

Link?

 

Truth is, Peters EARNED his extension, he didn't get it because he complained. There was no holdout, no threat of a holdout...unless you have some real information there was. But, of course you have ZERO inside info about the Bills, and in fact, seem to know far less about what does on at OBD, than most of the posters here.

 

For heaven's sake, can you really be that stupid about every topic?

 

He was being paid as a sub, and got an extension as a RT. It's time he gets a starting LT contract.

 

You might want to consider the harm unfounded rumors cause, before you start making up more lies, and posting them here.

[atlbillsfan1975]

Here's something I wrote in early February:

 

Pricing Fred Jackson is a bit tough. The USA Today Database, which is a great resource doesn't however list average compensation over the length of the contract. On top of that there are things like "likely to be reached" and "unlikely to be reached" bonuses and the fact that signing bonuses are generally guaranteed but salaries are not, etc.

 

Keep in mind also that many of these highly drafted running backs on their rookie contracts (Peterson, Mendenhall) will make considerably more on their 2nd contracts. That's why guys like Edgerrin James and Deuce McAllister are among the most highly paid RBs and rookie stars like Matt Forte and Marshawn Lynch are not.

 

Another factor is that Freddie, in my view, is not a chump number two running back but more of a 1B type, someone who can pinch hit (such as in week 17) and do it very well. Like someone mentioned earlier, he's very similar in value to Kenneth Davis was. I would say he deserves to be paid at least around the level of the 40th best running back in the NFL. Probably higher.

 

That being said here's some relevant numbers:

 

$460,000: The amount the Bills would have to pay him to retain his rights.

 

$2 million: The total compensation for the 40th highest paid running back in the league (Michael Bennett, TB Bucs). Mewelde Moore and Lamont Jordan also make in this range.

 

$2.1 million: Jonathan Stewart, rookie 1st round pick of the Carolina Panthers

 

$2.35 million: Ladell Betts, considered one of the better backup running backs

 

$2.65 million: Marshawn Lynch

 

$3.0 million: Kevin Faulk, steady veteran who does everything well and nothing spectacular

 

$3.1 million: Chester Taylor, considered one of the better backup running backs

 

$6.6 million: 2009 NFL Franchise Tag amount

I agree, somewhere around 2-2.5 a year for four years would get the deal done. He has shown to be a very reliable back up. And a very good player when on the field. He usually gets about 5-10 touches a game. The other thing you dont want to happen is what S.D went thru. They had Micheal Turner who played a very similar role to Jackson. The Bills would be wise locking him up to a four year deal around 8-10 total. Like many mentioned the Bills are probably working thru the 'he who must not be named' deal and the draft right now. Would be surprised if Jackson did not have a long term deal before June. Plus a four year deal worth 10 million would not be bad for a guy from the Arena League.

[Solomon Grundy]

as much as i hate players sitting out.... jackson DESERVES a raise.

 

he has been nothing but hardworking and loyal to the team and nothing but a good team player (not causing problems)

So was Peters until the Bills decided not to pay him what he was worth.

[Boom Jam]

as much as i hate players sitting out.... jackson DESERVES a raise.

 

he has been nothing but hardworking and loyal to the team and nothing but a good team player (not causing problems)

 

I couldn't agree more.

[atlbillsfan1975]

So we all agree Freddy deserves 2 year $5 million or 3 year $7.5 million roughly?

Wait a minute. Is that you Mr Wilson?????

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Wait a minute. Is that you Mr Wilson?????

No it's just me in San Jose. I'm trying to stem yet Peters' thread.

 

In addition, I think it's important for us to conclude what is fair so we can follow the negotiations and judge the actions of both parties. This is a fairness issue and I want to see how Brandon and Company acquit themselves in this situation.

[drinkTHEkoolaid]

So was Peters until the Bills decided not to pay him what he was worth.

so the bills should re-negotiate his already re-negotiated contract an an annual basis?

 

whats the point of even giving him an extended contract when he has no intention to ever attempt to live by what he signed?

[BhamBillsFan]

Maybe he's not selling enough jerseys for Brandon to want to resign him. I'd rather the Bills sign him to a solid contract than bring in some over the hill 3rd running back like Fred Taylor.

No way, Taylor jerseys would sell much faster than Jackson jerseys, I say drop Freddie and pick up Taylor. You have to think like Brandon.

[The Dean]

so the bills should re-negotiate his already re-negotiated contract an an annual basis?

 

 

Of course not. And that is hardly the point. But, they should pay him more, as a starting LT, than he was paid, as a guy relatively new to the RT position. Obviously, the team doesn't have to live by the contract, as they can cut him at any time.

 

BTW, nobody with a clue is suggesting that Peters shouldn't be getting a raise. Even the Bills are offering him more than double what he was due to make, so your position is kind of moot.

[The Dean]

No way, Taylor jerseys would sell much faster than Jackson jerseys, I say drop Freddie and pick up Taylor. You have to think like Brandon.

 

 

Except that Brandon doesn't make the decisions...and the Bills didn't pick up Taylor.

 

Other than the fact that you seem to be wrong on both points...good post!

[BillsWest]

I doubt it, it was still a sty when I came in today.

 

You know, my wife has got to clean a guys cubicle so he can move back in to it. Years of paperwork filed and unfiled, and just a big mess. I guess the guy gets paid too much to do it himself. WHAAAT?

[LABills08]

This is what happens when you give guys like Kelsay and Dockery big money. Everyone else realizes they deserve a piece. Peters should have been extended last summer when he was cheaper, I hope they don't make the same mistake with Jackson

[Steely Dan]

Some people here need a panty debuncher.

 

The Bills and Jackson's agent, Jerome Douglas, have been talking about a longer-term deal for several weeks.

 

It's probably a little slow for both him and Peters because they are negotiating the two contracts now. I think they will be fair to both. Hopefully before the draft.

 

 

Good for him, the Bills should give him at least a 2 year contract and pay him what he's worth. He proved himself last year (unlike Peters) especially against New England.

 

http://www.buffalonews.com/452/story/631518.html

 

What he said.

 

 

The article mentioned the other players getting a 4 year 10 million deal. That does not sound crazy for a very solid number 2 back and a guy that can start when Lynch is out. Plus he has shown to be a great third down type of guy, good hands and very quick. This is a guy i would pay. But i hope he shows up to mandatory events.

 

He's working out in Buffalo right now. It sounds to me like he'll be there faster than a jackrabbit with a jetpack when he signs for both mandatory and voluntary workouts.

 

 

Jackson is not currently under contract with the Bills, so I don't think he's even allowed to attend the workouts.

 

The article makes it sound like he could be there if he wanted.

 

 

Gee, apparently he's a malcontent and hates the Bills and his teammates and hates Buffalo. We should trade him. Who wants a guy who is not a team player and doesn't want to be here?

 

 

 

Jackson was tendered, ensuring he'll play for us or no one next year. He does deserve more money than he's making, but with the Peters situation and the draft, Jackson's new deal simply isn't a high priority right now. They have all summer to get a deal done with him.

 

I agree.

 

 

Every time you say something you make more and more sense. People...chill. It's very early.

 

That being said, I think we're all in agreement that Freddy deserves to be paid. The Bills have all the leverage too since he is a 28 year old running back RFA, and RB's start to expire at 30. I love Freddy. We all do. But with other needs to fill I can see how this takes a backseat until after the draft. Then they should get to work on this. I think a three-year deal in the $10M range is more than fair. Or maybe something with incentives for yards, carries, and touchdowns that pays him fairly as the second RB on our roster but incentivizes him to work harder should he become the premier back if Marshawn gets shot or gets arrested or something.

 

Hopefully this will be done before the draft as well as Peters. JMO

[thebandit27]

There better not be anyone that rips Peters and defends Jackson here. With all of the comments I've seen on this board alleging that Peters "held the team hostage" during his holdout, I'd surely hope those folks wouldn't clam up about this one.

 

We're talking about a guy who clearly sees that the starting player at his position is going to be suspended, and that the team intends to rely heavily upon his services for 2 or 3 weeks. Thus, he's holding out in the hopes that the team will get desperate to have him around and throw big money at him.

 

Coincidentally, this is Jackson's last offseason to get a long-term deal before he starts a season at the age of 30. I personally think that he's trying to pinch the front office, and that he's showing himself to be far more of a me-first player than Peters. Peters, at least, waited until he was a starter for two years and made the Pro Bowl before he postured for a new deal. Jackson is a backup that has shown flashes in a few games, and has absolutely no ground for holding out.

 

If he holds out into mandatory team activities, I, for one, would lose a lot of respect for him.

[Fixxxer]

Peters complained in 2005 & got a $15 M extension, he made the probowl in 2007 and hasn't been happy since and asking for more money. So that looks to be about 2 years later to me.

 

Fill in the rest yourself.

 

To play RT, then the team that gave him a contract according to that position moved him to LT. He moved, played at a Pro Bowl level and now he wants more money. It's the natural thing to do.

 

Now, lets pretend the team moves him to QB, he says yes, kicks some ass throwing to TO and Evans and goes to the Pro Bowl, my guess is that he will be asking for more money.

 

If you would have been promoted to a better position in your workplace but with the money from the previous position you too would be asking for better money.

[BillsWatch]

Once again you display your comtempt for the Bills by reading the worst possible motive into everything they do. There is no pattern of underpaying Bills players. Crawl back into Peters jock, why don't you.

 

PTR

 

For heaven's sake, can you really be that stupid about every topic?

 

Just ignore the troll from Florida. He posts inane questions to annoy people until he is booted. There is no way you could be that stupid every day and still remember to breathe.

 

Jackson is under contract - he ought to be insisting NFLPA stop negotiating contracts which require teams to pay on potential (when drafted) not on production.

 

Bills should give every free agent a chance to show what he can do and maybe Bills can find another gem. If they do then Jackson, as much as I like the player, could be #3 in depth chart again.

[Leonidas]

There better not be anyone that rips Peters and defends Jackson here. With all of the comments I've seen on this board alleging that Peters "held the team hostage" during his holdout, I'd surely hope those folks wouldn't clam up about this one.

 

Apples and oranges, my friend. Apples and oranges.

[thebandit27]

Apples and oranges, my friend. Apples and oranges.

 

Agreed, but not for the reason that (I assume) you're insinuating. See my original post for why it's different.

 

Peters is younger, plays a position that is much more critical, and is far more accomplished.

[atlbillsfan1975]

No it's just me in San Jose. I'm trying to stem yet Peters' thread.

 

In addition, I think it's important for us to conclude what is fair so we can follow the negotiations and judge the actions of both parties. This is a fairness issue and I want to see how Brandon and Company acquit themselves in this situation.

I hear ya. Was just busting your oranges. And yeah i don't want another Peters thread either. I hope the Bills have the foresight to go ahead and lock him up now. If you go down the road of offering him minimums then when it comes time for him to hit FA he will cost you a lot more then now. He has shown he can play in this league. Give him the four year deal and move on.

Either way i dont see him not being there come June.

[Astrobot]

correct. he has yet to sign his tender offer. 4 year at 2.5 per is a fair shake for a stand up class act guy who is one hell of an RB. also, it should be noted we have been in negotiations with his agent. My guess is, the bills are putting him on the back burner with 1.) peters and 2.) the draft upcoming. But that said, the dude is IN buffalo training on his own. get him signed, make everyone happy. he's a fan favorite so lets do it already... in addition, had they succeeded in getting someone like Kevin Jones it would have given them leverage in negotiations with him (which is again stupid on the FO part)....

 

I agree that 4 yrs/$10M sounds right for a proven back. However, the Bills will wait until after draft day to offer it. Compensation for Jackson would be a first rounder, and there are RB's in RD6 of this draft better than Xavier Omon IMHO. Add to this, we don't know right now if we will have money (thanks, Peters and agent), or if we'll have 2-3 first rounders to pay using the same money (our #11, and 1 or 2 first-rounders for Peters or trade-down).

[lets_go_bills]

I honestly don't blame him for sitting out. He's 28 and played hard and well. But he knows he only has a few years of football in him at that age and he just wants to get a nice payday to take care of himself and his family for life after football.

[Fingon]

I agree that 4 yrs/$10M sounds right for a proven back. However, the Bills will wait until after draft day to offer it. Compensation for Jackson would be a first rounder, and there are RB's in RD6 of this draft better than Xavier Omon IMHO. Add to this, we don't know right now if we will have money (thanks, Peters and agent), or if we'll have 2-3 first rounders to pay using the same money (our #11, and 1 or 2 first-rounders for Peters or trade-down).

How is compensation for Jackson a 1st rounder?

[cåblelady]

There better not be anyone that rips Peters and defends Jackson here.

Don't tempt me.

[SuperKillerRobots]

I agree that 4 yrs/$10M sounds right for a proven back. However, the Bills will wait until after draft day to offer it. Compensation for Jackson would be a first rounder, and there are RB's in RD6 of this draft better than Xavier Omon IMHO. Add to this, we don't know right now if we will have money (thanks, Peters and agent), or if we'll have 2-3 first rounders to pay using the same money (our #11, and 1 or 2 first-rounders for Peters or trade-down).

 

Isn't he an ERFA? Meaning he can't negotiate with anyone besides the Bills? He can't play for another team next year unless we trade him there. He's kinda SOL. I think Ryan Grant had the same issue last year and held out from the Packers' camp.

[The_Philster]

Jackson is not currently under contract with the Bills, so I don't think he's even allowed to attend the workouts.

 

Bingo...practicing without a contract is a big no-no per the NFLPA. If he gets hurt, he gets nothing. Under contract, he can get placed on IR and get his full salary

Some people here need a panty debuncher.

 

The article makes it sound like he could be there if he wanted.

Gaughan needs to pay better attention to the NFL than he already does if he meant it to sound that way

The person who wrote the article

Apples and oranges, my friend. Apples and oranges.

 

Peters is under contract, Jackson isn't

I honestly don't blame him for sitting out. He's 28 and played hard and well. But he knows he only has a few years of football in him at that age and he just wants to get a nice payday to take care of himself and his family for life after football.

he's not sitting out...holding out or sitting out,..it's when a player who's under contract doesn't report..Jackson isn't signed

[PromoTheRobot]

So was Peters until the Bills decided not to pay him what he was worth.

When exactly did that tragedy of humanity occur?

 

PTR

[Mickey]

Maybe he's not selling enough jerseys for Brandon to want to resign him. I'd rather the Bills sign him to a solid contract than bring in some over the hill 3rd running back like Fred Taylor.

But they don't have to, they have him tied up, just like Peters and they can tie him up him again in 2010 for only 2.2 million. Peters certainly proved himself, far more than did Freddy, in 2007, it didn't get him much. So now Freddy is doing the same thing Peters did after his best year as a pro and what Schobel did, etc. I don't see any way they give Freddy anything huge. I like the guy, a lot, but he has even less leverage than Peters.

 

Now, maybe there are those who think the Bills make contract decisions based on good citizenship, or a sense of morality and fair play. Okay, now that I have stopped laughing, let me finish that thought. I rather think they make decisions based on business realities. What is the least they can pay a guy and still get him to perform based on the leverage they have and don't have in the negotiations? That is the standard. One of the few times they deviated from that for anything but a hall of famer was Schobel and that was a huge mistake.

[The Dean]

When exactly did that tragedy of humanity occur?

 

PTR

 

 

I'd pinpoint that early in the offseason, after 2007, when they knew they had a Pro Bowl LT playing at a mediocre RT's salary. The RIGHT thing to do then (and the thing that likely would have made all of this moot), would have been to sign him to a legit contract for a starting NFL LT.

[Lurker]

I'd pinpoint that early in the offseason, after 2007, when they knew they had a Pro Bowl LT playing at a mediocre RT's salary. The RIGHT thing to do then (and the thing that likely would have made all of this moot), would have been to sign him to a legit contract for a starting NFL LT.

The NFL is a 'prove it more than once' league, which is why over the hill All Pros like Pace get $5 million and guys like Peters get $3.5 million.

[The Dean]

The NFL is a 'prove it more than once' league, which is why over the hill All Pros like Pace get $5 million and guys like Peters get $3.5 million.

 

 

That is simply untrue. The top OL drafted will get a far bigger contract than JP, and he has yet to play a down.

 

But, if we are talking about players already in the league, does the name Matt Cassel ring a bell? And, how long did it take for NE* to give a raise to Brady, after he went from a 6th round backup QB to a successful starter?

[drinkTHEkoolaid]

Except that Brandon doesn't make the decisions...and the Bills didn't pick up Taylor.

 

Other than the fact that you seem to be wrong on both points...good post!

 

i never said peters shouldn't get a raise, but what he is DEMANDING he is entitled to is insane. there is no way he is worth #1 LT money. does he deserve a raise, yes. does he deserve to be the highest paid LT, no.

 

he has alienated fans with the way he is handling this.

[The Dean]

i never said peters shouldn't get a raise, but what he is DEMANDING he is entitled to is insane. there is no way he is worth #1 LT money. does he deserve a raise, yes. does he deserve to be the highest paid LT, no.

 

he has alienated fans with the way he is handling this.

 

 

Your last post suggested you were against his contract negotiation.

 

so the bills should re-negotiate his already re-negotiated contract an an annual basis?

 

whats the point of even giving him an extended contract when he has no intention to ever attempt to live by what he signed?

 

 

Now you say you are OK with a contract negotiation.

 

What do you really think?

[drinkTHEkoolaid]

Your last post suggested you were against his contract negotiation.

 

 

 

 

Now you say you are OK with a contract negotiation.

 

What do you really think?

 

you like getting into arguments of circle logic don't you?

 

I don't want to give Peters the contract he wants, there is no way i want the bills to do that. He has not demonstrated he is commited to the team and therefore I don't think he has EARNED another contract negotiation. Fred Jackson DOES deserve an extension/negotiation. (which is what this thread is on without getting this on a complete tangent)

 

but just based solely on the position he plays, he is "underpaid" compared to his starting LT peers and "deserves" more as a result just on the pay scale for his position.

[The Dean]

you like getting into arguments of circle logic don't you?

 

Not particularly. But, I do like to understand where people are coming from. Those two positions seemed, on the surface, to be contradictory,

 

I don't want to give Peters the contract he wants, there is no way i want the bills to do that. He has not demonstrated he is commited to the team and therefore I don't think he has EARNED another contract negotiation. Fred Jackson DOES deserve an extension/negotiation. (which is what this thread is on without getting this on a complete tangent)

 

but just based solely on the position he plays, he is "underpaid" compared to his starting LT peers and "deserves" more as a result just on the pay scale for his position.

 

OK. Although I don't agree with you, I understand what you are saying, a little better.