KOKBILLS Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Kill Canada. I thought it was "Blame Canada," but whatever... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 I'm afraid that WNY needs to get used to the idea of a true Niagara-region franchise. The Bills will either get regional or they will get on down the road. I find it amusing how some are determined to shut out Toronto, yet look on in frustration at the thought that our last free agent signing will be Pat Thomas. You don't get the connection? As it is, the Bills' weak local market dictates that they command the lowest ticket prices in the league and likely are near the bottom of the NFL in advertising revenues. Yet we cling to the hope of a playoff appearance. Are we nuts, unrealistic or just clueless? Time to get our heads out of the sand and realize just how much the weak WNY market holds back the competitiveness of this franchise. Two or three games in Toronto is a NECESSITY if we want watchable football - and whether we LIKE it or not is immaterial. BNiH, I've been a season ticket holder for 2 seasons now and will return in 09. Ticket affordability helps me buy tickets, but I'd pay closer to league average to see a competitive team. The Bills haven't put a decent product on the field since the late nineties. Despite this, they sold 56k+ season tickets last season and increased revenue with the Toronto series. When it comes to being profitable in a small market, winning does wonders for generating revenue. There are plenty of small market teams who don't need to do what Buffalo does. Indianapolis is successful both financially and on the field. They've just built a new stadium as well. The claim that Buffalo can never be a profitable venture based on the market is flat our wrong. Pittsburgh is a small and depressed market, yet winning football games magically makes a lot of their revenue problems go away. Neither team is planning on moving soon to my knowledge, but can charge about $20-25 more for the average ticket. If the Bills could put a winner on the field, I'm sure they could charge significantly higher. But because they won't invest in actual front office types to find young talent along with a legitimate NFL HC, they'll find themselves charging less and banking on selling their soul more for franchise stability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Geez, didn't those people SEE that game vs. Miami last season? And they still want to shell out at least $100 a game? My guess is the questionnaire gets crumpled and tossed or deleted by the vast majority of those receiving it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flbillsfan#1 Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Geez, didn't those people SEE that game vs. Miami last season? And they still want to shell out at least $100 a game? My guess is the questionnaire gets crumpled and tossed or deleted by the vast majority of those receiving it. You would be WRONG because the VAST MAJORITY of the Bills Toronto tickets are purchased by Corporations as are the vast majority of Leafs tickets. It is called a tax write off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mousetrap08 Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 That's because they are ridiculous names. I KNOW IT THATS MY POINT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Geez, didn't those people SEE that game vs. Miami last season? And they still want to shell out at least $100 a game? My guess is the questionnaire gets crumpled and tossed or deleted by the vast majority of those receiving it. I was at that game. And yeah, the survey company probably didn't like some of my answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDVA Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 When the Buffalo Braves left town, I became a Baltimore Bullet fan. Then one year they decided to play some games in Washington. Then they played half the games in Washington and became the Baltimore-Washington Bullets, until they were just the Washington Bullets completely stealing the team. When they finally had taken the Bullets name away and became the Wizards, I have not watched an NBA basketball game since! I know many more just like myself, NBA fans lost forever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Philster Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 !@#$ that. If this happens, it would make the reasoning behind the Toronto series a lie. They told us that they were doing it to coax more ticket buyers down from Toronto to sell luxury boxes and club seats. Moving any more games up there (at still ridiculous prices) is just a money grab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 BNiH, I've been a season ticket holder for 2 seasons now and will return in 09. Ticket affordability helps me buy tickets, but I'd pay closer to league average to see a competitive team. The Bills haven't put a decent product on the field since the late nineties. Despite this, they sold 56k+ season tickets last season and increased revenue with the Toronto series. When it comes to being profitable in a small market, winning does wonders for generating revenue. There are plenty of small market teams who don't need to do what Buffalo does. Indianapolis is successful both financially and on the field. They've just built a new stadium as well. The claim that Buffalo can never be a profitable venture based on the market is flat our wrong. Pittsburgh is a small and depressed market, yet winning football games magically makes a lot of their revenue problems go away. Neither team is planning on moving soon to my knowledge, but can charge about $20-25 more for the average ticket. If the Bills could put a winner on the field, I'm sure they could charge significantly higher. But because they won't invest in actual front office types to find young talent along with a legitimate NFL HC, they'll find themselves charging less and banking on selling their soul more for franchise stability. I suppose it is a chicken and egg debate. Those in the "chicken" camp will say that better cash flow will lead to winning, and the "egg" camp can say that winning will lead to better cash flow. The problem is, our owner seems to be a chicken guy so you can either get on his side or keep debating, but just remember that he holds the purse strings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipers Hair Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 I think it is far-fetched to believe an NFL team can survive by playing home games in two different cities (and countries), over a long period of time. The Toronto gambit is an opportunity to help strengthen the Canadian tie to the Bills, and make it feasible for companies based in Toronto to buy luxury suites at the Ralph. Short term, it's doable...the Packers did it for a while, playing games in Milwaukee. But, as a permanent arrangement? I guess it is possible, but I don't think so. Either the current ploy works, and the Bills increase their Canadian sales of tickets at the Ralph, or it is a failure, IMO. Ans if they fail...I believe they leave. The business model of the NFL in WNY does not work due to the escelating costs to run and own a team and the stagnant population and economy in Upstate NY... To all those hating on the Canadians - embrace your destiny and hope they are happy with a 3 game annual package.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynchMob23 Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Pittsburgh had four Superbowl wins in the 70s, which, along with the "we are family" Pirates allowed a depressed market/fanbase to buy season tickets to the point where there is a waiting list. Many reasons exist why they were successful, but one key reason was the willingness of Mr. Rooney to scout historically black colleges and universities in the south for talent. After the departure of coal and traditional markets for the region, bio-tech has come in and filled the void. Coupled with two new stadiums they built for the Pirates and Steelers they bankrupted the city for several years. So, they can charge a high rate for the tickets, because of the new stadium and the previous historical success of the Steelers. That allows them to play it cheap with most free agents. Buffalo, has not had that. We had the 90s SuperBowl years - which were awesome - but after that, the middle 90s and oughts have been filled with an occasional visit to the playoffs and then none at all. Some think that Ralph is cheap because he doesn't spend on Free Agents, but think about how much he spent between 00 and 06 on Free agents compared to other teams and still NOT make the playoffs.... If Toronto brings in more money, they bring in more money. But unless Buffalo finds that niche of the 21st century to make it more economically viable sharing will be the only thing that keeps them mainly in Buffalo. Heck, have a game in Toronto and one in the Carrier Dome a year pre-season - that should ensure the team is regional enough with the two proposed games in TO a year. Of course, if Jimbo and the consortium buy the team, they'll just pump money into the team staying in Buffalo and not use the streams available in TO at all....Or if another buyer buys the team, they won't consider moving the team out of some misplaced sense of loyalty to a region/fanbase they may not have an attachment to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipers Hair Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 !@#$ that. If this happens, it would make the reasoning behind the Toronto series a lie. They told us that they were doing it to coax more ticket buyers down from Toronto to sell luxury boxes and club seats. Moving any more games up there (at still ridiculous prices) is just a money grab Welcome to business 101. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammered a Lot Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 There are plenty of small market teams who don't need to do what Buffalo does. Indianapolis is successful both financially and on the field. They've just built a new stadium as well. The claim that Buffalo can never be a profitable venture based on the market is flat our wrong. Pittsburgh is a small and depressed market, yet winning football games magically makes a lot of their revenue problems go away. Neither team is planning on moving soon to my knowledge, but can charge about $20-25 more for the average ticket. I got to disagree with your statement about Pittsburgh being a depressed area. They have some core businesses that are recession proof. There is building going on there. The Colts stadium was built by taxpayers who this year will have a $48 million bill to deal with, up from $20 million last year. The Toronto field needs to be replaced before anymore games are played on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 In 20 years, it will be 7 games in Toronto, 1 in Buffalo. I'd be OK with two regular season games in Toronto next year if that keeps the other six in the Ralph. I think the canadians are crappy fans who sit on their hands the whole game. Of course the bills give them nothing to cheer for so I guess thats fair. this is the way it will go. WNY can't support a winning NFL franchise . the people can't pay the freight and there are only a few businesses that can buy the suites, very important.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGB Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Welcome to business 101. Look, this is a way to make the OBD more money and the franchise more attractive when it goes up for auction. Anyone who thinks that there is any loyalty in pro sports to the city where a team might be based, needs to wake up and realize that you are merely marketing sheep for slaughter. It is no different than any other business. Sure there might be a couple of players that call Buffalo home and might exhibit some level of devotion, but at the end of the day, it is show me the money...and for OBD, and if it isn't in B-lo, then let's try a different place. I am sure that OBD has already conducted a study to determine how much money they would expect to generate with merchandise sales - if they were to change the franchise name to the Toronto Bills. If you live in western NY and enjoy going to NFL games, the days when all the home games were played at home are gone and soon the Buffalo Bills might be as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cåblelady Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 !@#$ that. Yep. They can kma! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike6683 Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 why would they want more games when they cant even sell the ones they have. They can have both preseason games that wouldnt bother me. I Buffalo loses another regular season game to toranto I really belive fans start to see it as moving to a more permanent thing and they would lose alot of season ticket holders including me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 why would they want more games when they cant even sell the ones they have. They can have both preseason games that wouldnt bother me. I Buffalo loses another regular season game to toranto I really belive fans start to see it as moving to a more permanent thing and they would lose alot of season ticket holders including me I'm guessing the research will show them that. At the prices they charge, and given the Bills lack of production on the field, how do they expect to fill the stadium when they struggle to get 35,000 for an Argo's game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Ans if they fail...I believe they leave. The business model of the NFL in WNY does not work due to the escelating costs to run and own a team and the stagnant population and economy in Upstate NY... To all those hating on the Canadians - embrace your destiny and hope they are happy with a 3 game annual package.... st catherines is a suburb of buffalo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Ans if they fail...I believe they leave. The business model of the NFL in WNY does not work due to the escelating costs to run and own a team and the stagnant population and economy in Upstate NY... To all those hating on the Canadians - embrace your destiny and hope they are happy with a 3 game annual package.... This is a fallacy that has kept Ralph in WNY's good graces for the past ten years. This truth is that owning the Bills has been VERY lucrative for Ralph----he has no stadium debt, no loan debt. "His" stadium sells out nearly all it's games. This business had an operating margin of over $100 million between '04-'07. He just pocketed over $70 million form a dying Rogers last year. Escalating costs?? Those only exist if you are spending to the cap or have a large debt to service. Neither is true with Ralph. The only thing that can hurt him is if fans stop coming to games, but even then, the sheer mass of guaranteed money form the NFL TV rights would keep him in the black. The next guy who owns the Bills will be strapped for sure. But Ralph has the absolute best financial situation in the League. He's printing money while he goes out to congress and to the other owners with his hand in his hat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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