Gonzalez Report

[Gordio]

This is a guy who just last season had 99 catches, 1172 yards and 5 touchdowns. He isn't on that pace this year, what with the Chiefs asking him to block more and having already used 3 different starting quarterbacks, including some guy named Tyler Thigpen. But he has NOT lost very much of his speed or athleticism. This is still one of the premier tight ends in the game.

 

As for the chance that his game is about to drop off, Gonzo has proven to be one of the most durable players in the league and keeps himself in excellent shape. He could be one of those rare players who remains relevant well into their 30s. Since he was drafted, he's appeared in 156 of the Chiefs 158 regular season games.

 

Personally, I would have no problem giving away a 2nd and a 5th. The prospect of Edwards playing with Evans and Gonzalez is too enticing to pass up.

 

 

I like the way you think. Get it done, if it costs us a 2nd & a 5th so be it.

[drnykterstein]

I like the way you think. Get it done, if it costs us a 2nd & a 5th so be it.

 

o_0 - the Giants have only offered a 6th.

 

So you would trade a James Hardy and a Reggie Corner to them for this guy?

[The Dean]

As everyone is throwing around numbers based on "reports", I think we should all be realistic here. Tony G isn't going anywhere for a 6th round pick. I'm guessing some team will offer AT LEAST a 4th rounder, and more likely a 3rd.

 

With that said, I'd be shocked if the Bills parted with a 2nd and a 5th. I'm not sure if I would be mad, but I would be too shocked to know for sure.

[ganesh]

JP is going to free agency when the season ends, because thats where the money is. Because of that, a 7th round pick has more trade value than JP Losman does. Why would a team thats going nowhere this year want him when he's just going to play out the string and leave?

 

Wouldn't Kansas City be a logical choice for Losman to compete for a starting job in 2009 ? How many other teams need a starting QB and how many are going to make Losman their starting QB ? Detroit, Kansas City, .... and not many others..

[The Dean]

Wouldn't Kansas City be a logical choice for Losman to compete for a starting job in 2009 ? How many other teams need a starting QB and how many are going to make Losman their starting QB ? Detroit, Kansas City, .... and not many others..

 

 

Perhaps. But, as he is a FA after this year, how do you figure that influences his inclusion in a trade to KC?

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Perhaps. But, as he is a FA after this year, how do you figure that influences his inclusion in a trade to KC?

Exactly. His contract status means his trade value is next to nothing. He's going to hit free agency, and he's going to sign with the highest bidder.

[ganesh]

Perhaps. But, as he is a FA after this year, how do you figure that influences his inclusion in a trade to KC?

 

KC Gets a QB whom they can audition for the rest of the season and will have exclusive rights to discuss a new contract with JP if he does work out for them. The Bills get something for Losman. The real problem though with Losman being in any trade is that the Bills really do not have a good backup QB if Edwards were to miss time.

[The Dean]

KC Gets a QB whom they can audition for the rest of the season and will have exclusive rights to discuss a new contract with JP if he does work out for them. The Bills get something for Losman. The real problem though with Losman being in any trade is that the Bills really do not have a good backup QB if Edwards were to miss time.

 

 

Well, I understand the audition part, although having missed all of their workouts, training camp and preseason, I doubt they would get much to look at, as it is unlikely they would play him much, IMO.

 

But, why would they have "exclusive rights" to JP at the end of the year? Isn't he a UFA?

 

Also, as you note, for the Bills to do this is very risky. You trade for Tony G to put yourself over the top, and ditch your #2 QB in the process. Doesn't add up, for me. Not saying they wouldn't do it, though.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

KC Gets a QB whom they can audition for the rest of the season and will have exclusive rights to discuss a new contract with JP if he does work out for them. The Bills get something for Losman. The real problem though with Losman being in any trade is that the Bills really do not have a good backup QB if Edwards were to miss time.

There's plenty of tape on Losman for teams to figure out where he's at as a quarterback. Could KC bringing him in for 11 games allow them to gauge Losman's ability more accurately than film? Its possible, but the difference it would make surely isn't equatable to a 2nd or 3rd round pick.

 

As for KC having exclusive rights...Losman simply would not have any reason to sign with them. He'll have no loyalty to any of the coaches or players, the team's higher execs, or the city. He'll have every reason to simply hit free agency and sell himself off to the highest bidder, who would in turn have the most perrogative to give him playing time. If thats KC, than so be it. If it isn't KC...than so be it. The exclusive rights they'd get for a limited time wouldn't do them much good here, imo.

[The Dean]

There's plenty of tape on Losman for teams to figure out where he's at as a quarterback. Could KC bringing him in for 11 games allow them to gauge Losman's ability more accurately than film? Its possible, but the difference it would make surely isn't equatable to a 2nd or 3rd round pick.

 

As for KC having exclusive rights...Losman simply would not have any reason to sign with them. He'll have no loyalty to any of the coaches or players, the team's higher execs, or the city. He'll have every reason to simply hit free agency and sell himself off to the highest bidder, who would in turn have the most perrogative to give him playing time. If thats KC, than so be it. If it isn't KC...than so be it. The exclusive rights they'd get for a limited time wouldn't do them much good here, imo.

 

 

Boone (or someone), if you don't mind, please explain what "exclusive rights" KC would have on JP, in the very unlikely event a trade like that happened.

 

Thanks.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Boone (or someone), if you don't mind, please explain what "exclusive rights" KC would have on JP, in the very unlikely event a trade like that happened.

 

Thanks.

I took it to mean that period between the end of the season and the start of free agency, where only the player's former team can negotiate with him. Wouldn't really mean much here imo, cause Losman would just wait that period out and become a UFA.

[Tsaikotic]

KC Gets a QB whom they can audition for the rest of the season and will have exclusive rights to discuss a new contract with JP if he does work out for them. The Bills get something for Losman. The real problem though with Losman being in any trade is that the Bills really do not have a good backup QB if Edwards were to miss time.

 

hmm Id have to say your mistaken on that point..I believe Hamden will be more of a capable #2 than you think...besides I think Bills make Hamdan #2 next season anyways, so why not do it now....as for Gonzo, Id only offer a 4th round pick, no more

[The Dean]

I took it to mean that period between the end of the season and the start of free agency, where only the player's former team can negotiate with him. Wouldn't really mean much here imo, cause Losman would just wait that period out and become a UFA.

 

 

Oh. Then I, mostly, agree. I guess it is POSSIBLE that JP really clicks with the coaches and plays well and they make him a fantastic offer...but, that's quite a long shot, given that he'd be joining them mid season. And, that is certainly nothing to build a trade around.

[jarthur31]

I know there are people talking about the Gonzalez to Buffalo angle. Chris Brown has it on his blog that there is an unconfirmed story from ESPNews that Buffalo is interested in Tony Gonzalez. However...

 

The report says Chiefs CEO King Carl (Peterson) wants a first and change. That's too high, and I'd be surprised to see KC get any more than a second. Gonzalez has some tread left on him, but a first is probably the initial offer, which is never accepted. TG has made it known he'd like to get out while the Chiefs undergo complete rebuild.

 

The trade deadline is 10/14, and Chris Chambers went for a second last year. My gut tells me Buffalo does not consider Gonzalez for more than a third. His pay is manageable for 08 and 09, but there's some guaranteed money there as well.

 

Then again, this is a must-win year for the Bills and there is no quality TE on the roster. You've got an H-Back type in Schouman and an injured rookie in Fine being the backups to the disappointing Royal.

 

A 2nd is still too high and we don't have a need for a TE. Unless he's a beast at run blocking. Gonzalez doesn't have much left so I think it would be unwise to trade for him.

[The Dean]

hmm Id have to say your mistaken on that point..I believe Hamden will be more of a capable #2 than you think...besides I think Bills make Hamdan #2 next season anyways, so why not do it now....as for Gonzo, Id only offer a 4th round pick, no more

 

 

I like Hamden, but I think the chances are very slim that the Bills don't attempt to find another #2 for next year. And, there is no objective basis for which to claim that Hamden would be a better #2 for the Bills, based on regular season play in the NFL. Hamden has thrown TWO passes in the NFL, in the ONE game in which he saw action.

 

So, you can believe that, if you'd like, but there is simply no objective evidence for your belief. And, I could be wrong here, I doubt the Bills are going to risk a move like that based on the "belief" of Tsaikotic on TSW. (Where is that head shaking smiley?)

 

 

 

EDIT: I just re-read your post and realize you didn't claim that GH would be BETTER than JP, just better than we might think. (It's getting late, my bad.) Actually, I don't disagree, but doubt the Bills risk the season on that possibility.

[Tsaikotic]

If Im not mistaken, Hamdan played in NFL Europe and in the preseason Hamdam looked very good...I believe the only reason JP is #2 is 1) - obviously more experience in the NFL, 2) - because he was a 1st round QB that makes to much $ to be a 3rd QB on the roster and 3) - I dont think Jauron wanted to totally destroy his confidence by takeing him so far down the latter...I could be wrong on #3

[ExWNYer]

As everyone is throwing around numbers based on "reports", I think we should all be realistic here. Tony G isn't going anywhere for a 6th round pick. I'm guessing some team will offer AT LEAST a 4th rounder, and more likely a 3rd.

 

With that said, I'd be shocked if the Bills parted with a 2nd and a 5th. I'm not sure if I would be mad, but I would be too shocked to know for sure.

I don't care what the reports say, KC is not getting a 1st Rounder for TG. Shockey went for a 2nd & a 5th. A conditional 4th (with the possibility to become a 3rd) & a 5th or a 3rd & 6th sounds about right, IMO. The trade deadline is fast approaching. KC can't hold anybody hostage. They're going nowhere anytime soon and they either get some mid-round pick(s) for him or they hold him and gain nothing in the process. I think he'll be dealt and my bet is they try to move him to an NFC team like the Giants or Iggles, even if they have to take a little bit less for him.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

I don't care what the reports say, KC is not getting a 1st Rounder for TG. Shockey went for a 2nd & a 5th. A conditional 4th (with the possibility to become a 3rd) & a 5th or a 3rd & 6th sounds about right, IMO. The trade deadline is fast approaching. KC can't hold anybody hostage. They're going nowhere anytime soon and they either get some mid-round pick(s) for him or they hold him and gain nothing in the process. I think he'll be dealt and my bet is they try to move him to an NFC team like the Giants or Iggles, even if they have to take a little bit less for him.

There is no need for them to get rid of Gonzalez. Its not like he's about to hit free agency, and its not as if he's a malcontent demanding a trade. If they don't get an offer they like, they can just stand pat, and deal him in the offseason if they're so inclined...or they could just keep their best player and try to win some football games the next couple of years.

[The Dean]

If Im not mistaken, Hamdan played in NFL Europe and in the preseason Hamdam looked very good...I believe the only reason JP is #2 is 1) - obviously more experience in the NFL, 2) - because he was a 1st round QB that makes to much $ to be a 3rd QB on the roster and 3) - I dont think Jauron wanted to totally destroy his confidence by takeing him so far down the latter...I could be wrong on #3

 

 

I'd change #'s 2 and 3 to: Because, right now, JP is a better NFL QB than Hamdan. JP also looked good, in preseason, against 1st team defenses. For much of the game this past Sunday, JP didn't look too bad, either.

 

Yes, Hamdan played in Europe, but hasn't been able to see virtually any action, while on the roster of four different NFL teams. I think he is better than most #3 QBs...but I don't have any objective reason for thinking that. I just think the kid looks like he has something. But, again, you probably don't risk a season, where you have a very good shot at the playoffs, on those kind of beliefs.

[The Dean]

There is no need for them to get rid of Gonzalez. Its not like he's about to hit free agency, and its not as if he's a malcontent demanding a trade. If they don't get an offer they like, they can just stand pat, and deal him in the offseason if they're so inclined...or they could just keep their best player and try to win some football games the next couple of years.

 

 

Exactly.

 

They are not likely to get a #1, and if they get a #2, it likely won't be with "change". But, they aren't going to simply give him away, either, IMO.

[Tsaikotic]

I don't care what the reports say, KC is not getting a 1st Rounder for TG. Shockey went for a 2nd & a 5th. A conditional 4th (with the possibility to become a 3rd) & a 5th or a 3rd & 6th sounds about right, IMO. The trade deadline is fast approaching. KC can't hold anybody hostage. They're going nowhere anytime soon and they either get some mid-round pick(s) for him or they hold him and gain nothing in the process. I think he'll be dealt and my bet is they try to move him to an NFC team like the Giants or Iggles, even if they have to take a little bit less for him.

 

why do you think a NFC team over a AFC team?...just wondering...if its because they dont want to trade into the conference, why not?..its not like they have a chance this year or next year to go to the playoffs...I can see maybe not into their division...I think the Chiefs, and Gonzo, realize that they wont be going anywhere in the time-frame that Gonzo still has to play before retireing...due to this they probably know they need as many young talented players they can get.

[gjb373]

GET HIM...NOW....

 

He doesn't have much playoff experience, but he does bring a veteran presence to a VERY young offense. Immediately, he will draw cover from Evans, and secondarily Lynch out of the backfield. Anyone remember Thurman running patterns in the secondary, on set patterns, during the glory days???(Something Marshall Faulk perfected) This will immediately make our offense as dangerous as any in the league.

 

While drafting a TE or WR in the draft makes sense and shows patience, they usually take 2-3 yrs to materialize(ie Hardy...most receivers in the league)

 

A proven veteran, while past his prime, will still bring a steadiness and an IMMEDIATE impact to our game plan and more importantly to the OPPOSITIONS GAMEPLAN! Lynch will run wild while Gonzalez and Evans have defenses worried.

 

Evans Deep..Gonzalez in the middle...Lynch and Parrish short......LOOK OUT

 

......at least it will help our offensive line...which looks like they are playing on roller blades.......

[ExWNYer]

There is no need for them to get rid of Gonzalez. Its not like he's about to hit free agency, and its not as if he's a malcontent demanding a trade. If they don't get an offer they like, they can just stand pat, and deal him in the offseason if they're so inclined...or they could just keep their best player and try to win some football games the next couple of years.

I didn't say they HAD to get rid of him but they're obviously eager to deal him while he's still got decent value. Next season he'll be a year older and maybe won't fetch as much. There are probbably a half dozen or so contenders who could use him now and might be willing to pay a little more than they would in the off-season. Just my opinion.

[Tsaikotic]

I'd change #'s 2 and 3 to: Because, right now, JP is a better NFL QB than Hamdan. JP also looked good, in preseason, against 1st team defenses. For much of the game this past Sunday, JP didn't look too bad, either.

 

Yes, Hamdan played in Europe, but hasn't been able to see virtually any action, while on the roster of four different NFL teams. I think he is better than most #3 QBs...but I don't have any objective reason for thinking that. I just think the kid looks like he has something. But, again, you probably don't risk a season, where you have a very good shot at the playoffs, on those kind of beliefs.

 

I still think Buffalo goes with Hamdan as #2 next season..only way they dont is if they can grab a good veteran, and I dont see any...Yes I know there are some former starters sitting at home right now, but if they were any good they wouldnt be sitting at home right now...could they possably be better #2's than Hamdan, maybe, but I still like Hamdans work ethic and preperation and believe he would be a capable #2.

 

anyways..I really did not want to turn this into a JP vs anybody thread

[Tsaikotic]

another reason why KC might be shopping Gonzo now could be to do it before he gets hurt in that crap offense...if he gets hurt this season they wont be able to shop him in the offseason like some have said...get the most value for him whiule u can.

[ExWNYer]

why do you think a NFC team over a AFC team?...just wondering...if its because they dont want to trade into the conference, why not?..its not like they have a chance this year or next year to go to the playoffs...I can see maybe not into their division...I think the Chiefs, and Gonzo, realize that they wont be going anywhere in the time-frame that Gonzo still has to play before retireing...due to this they probably know they need as many young talented players they can get.

I don't necessarily think that they wouldn't trade him to an AFC team; however, if all deals are fairly equal, I think they'd be more inclined to send him to the NFC to get him out of conference. I think an AFC team might have to pay a little more. Plus, the Bills visit KC later in the year. The Chief fans (& mgt.) might not be too jazzed to see Gonzo come back and beat them in their own backyard.

[The Dean]

I still think Buffalo goes with Hamdan as #2 next season..only way they dont is if they can grab a good veteran, and I dont see any...Yes I know there are some former starters sitting at home right now, but if they were any good they wouldnt be sitting at home right now...could they possably be better #2's than Hamdan, maybe, but I still like Hamdans work ethic and preperation and believe he would be a capable #2.

anyways..I really did not want to turn this into a JP vs anybody thread

 

 

I don't think it has, either. I may be wrong, but I expect the Bills will bring in a veteran QB (or two) to compete for the #2 spot, next season, and I'm not talking about guys sitting at home now, necessarily. There will be some backup QBs available, as there are every year.

 

Now, I'm not sure if they beat out Gibran, but I think they will make him earn it, and not just hand it to him. Hey, I hope he does earn it.

[gjb373]

I still think Buffalo goes with Hamdan as #2 next season..only way they dont is if they can grab a good veteran, and I dont see any...Yes I know there are some former starters sitting at home right now, but if they were any good they wouldnt be sitting at home right now...could they possably be better #2's than Hamdan, maybe, but I still like Hamdans work ethic and preperation and believe he would be a capable #2.

 

anyways..I really did not want to turn this into a JP vs anybody thread

 

I agree completely...Hamdan is clearly a smarter quarterback. Look at his history...he's a team player who clearly can suffice as a number 2 a la Frank Reich

 

Losman has a head full of rocks. He's a idiot. He panics, and even worse tries to make THE big play EVERY play. It looks great when it works once a game, but it's not how 16 games a year are won. Losman is more interested in how he is perceived by the media and fans. He's a pathetic excuse for an NFL QB and we can only thank TOM DONAHOE for that one - telling us he was a steal compared to the other QBs taken in front of him...HAHA

[bowery4]

TG for a third and someone instead of JP would be good, KC has a lot of needs, put Robert Royal or Schouman into it so they fill the position as well. I would say a 2nd if it was by itself.

[Tim Anderson's Lunch Pail]

KC Gets a QB whom they can audition for the rest of the season and will have exclusive rights to discuss a new contract with JP if he does work out for them. The Bills get something for Losman. The real problem though with Losman being in any trade is that the Bills really do not have a good backup QB if Edwards were to miss time.

 

 

No, the real problem in your suggestion is that the Chiefs already have a JP Losman on their team in Brodie Croyle. Losman has absolutely positively no value to the Kansas City Chiefs. And this isn't Madden where you can just plug in a QB and see what he does. He has to learn a brand new offense on the fly. I'm not a Losman hater, but he's not exactly Favre winging it with the Jets.

[Stussy109]

He's on his 12'th season, and will 33 this coming Feb. I think if the Bills were one or two players away, maybe

you make a deal, however IMO they should keep trying to build through the draft.

 

First 3 picks in '09 draft should be some combination of DL, OL and receiver.

 

 

You play to win now, not to have a madden franchise. We are 4-1, adding a playmaking tight end cant hurt, he couldnt possibly be ANY worse than bone head Royal

[BeastMode54]

this is per rotoworld

 

The Giants have reportedly offered a sixth-round pick to the Chiefs in exchange for Tony Gonzalez.

Kansas City is holding out for a third-rounder. Green Bay and Buffalo are the other two teams in the mix to acquire Gonzo. The Chiefs' reasoning for shopping Gonzalez is reportedly because of their faith in rookie Brad Cottam. Cottam was injury prone at Tennessee, where he caught 21 passes in four years.

 

I would do this in a second

[drnykterstein]

another reason why KC might be shopping Gonzo now could be to do it before he gets hurt in that crap offense...if he gets hurt this season they wont be able to shop him in the offseason like some have said...get the most value for him whiule u can.

 

Did you really spell sabres wrong?

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

another reason why KC might be shopping Gonzo now could be to do it before he gets hurt in that crap offense...if he gets hurt this season they wont be able to shop him in the offseason like some have said...get the most value for him whiule u can.

I said they could trade him in the offseason, just as an example to show that they don't HAVE to trade him. They could trade him now, they could trade him in the offseason, they could trade him next offseason, or they could never trade him. I don't care how committed you are to "rebuilding," there's nothing wrong with holding on to your best player.

 

This isn't a 'trade him for whatever we can get while we can still get it' type of situation. They probably have a minimum that they're willing to take, and if they don't get it, they'll be perfectly fine with keeping one of the league's elite tight ends on their roster.

 

Reports are that this situation wasn't even prompted by the Chiefs, but by Gonzalez himself inquiring about the possibility. So as a show of good faith, and maybe as a tip of the cap to the good years he's given them, they told him they'd listen to offers. This isn't even the Chiefs idea, so you know they aren't desperate to get something done. They weren't even thinking about it until Gonzalez brought it up.

 

If a deal gets done, its going to be on their terms.

[Nanker]

Technically speaking, a "first day pick" in The Draft means a first or second round pick. The 2009 NFL Draft is scheduled to take place in Radio City Music Hall in New York City on April 25 and 26, 2009. It is expected to have two rounds on the first day, and five rounds on the second day, as in 2008.

The link has the currently valid trades from last year's draft through now.

Interesting that Schockey might yet get the NYG a 1st round pick - if the Saints re-sign Jonathan Vilma - they will owe the NYJESTS the 2nd rounder that they structured the Shockey deal with. In that case, the Jints will get the 'Aint's 2010 first round pick instead.

 

That said - Gonzalez said he wanted to be a contender. Chefs then said they wanted a first day pick. I don't believe The Bills would give up a second round pick for him, and their third (hopefully) will be a lot farther down the list than it will be closer to the top - if you get my drift. So, is Gonzalez worth the 80 - 90th pick in the 2009 Draft? I might do that trade. However, as it stands now, we don't get any other picks - except the compensation picks The League throws to teams that lose more veteran players than they sign. If we go into the next draft with Gonzalez and no third, they'd better do a damn good job at the 1 & 2 picks to address the lines.

[Bleed Bills Blue]

Might as well just give them the 1st they want and be done with it. Given our history and relative success of 1st and 3rd rounders, it would probably end up costing us less.

[RayFinkle]

Seeing as how the last pick in the 3rd round is basically like a 4th rounder anyway, I'd give them our 3rd this year. Get er done Russ...

[SKOOBY]

If PFT is right, then obviously, I think, no more than a 3rd would be given (unless a bidding war began). But, keep in mind that PFT can be pretty iffy with the facts. Chris Brown, suggests they are asking for a 1st and change, so consider that, as well.

 

Chris Brown also reported that we get no extra draft picks, we know how that turned out.

[ThePebble19]

I dunno .. is that worth a 3rd? That's like an Ellis or Youboty or Edwards. Though I do hear what you are saying.

 

Though I do think this is the Bills year to make some noise, and that if they are going to bring in an expiring player who wants one last shot at glory, this is the best year for the Bills to do it.

 

Edit: from that KC Start link above:

"The Chiefs were asking for a third-round pick, and the Giants offered a sixth-rounder."

 

 

A 3rd sometimes also happens to be like a Coy Wire.

[SKOOBY]

KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- Tony Gonzalez, the most productive tight end in NFL history, will be traded to a contender if the Kansas City Chiefs get the right price.

 

ESPN's Michael Smith first reported the fact Gonzalez was to be shopped Saturday.

 

 

A league source confirmed to ESPN that Gonzalez went to Chiefs GM Carl Peterson and inquired about a trade to a contender earlier this week.

 

Gonzalez

 

Gonzalez, who holds the NFL tight end record for receptions, touchdown catches and yards receiving, is active in civic and charitable affairs and enjoys great popularity in Kansas City. He has always said he would like to end his career with the Chiefs, who drafted him in the first round out of California in 1997.

 

But the Chiefs (1-4) are rebuilding from the bottom up and not likely to contend for the Super Bowl any time soon. In spite of all his personal accomplishments, Gonzalez, 32, has never even won a postseason game.

 

He would like an opportunity to play in a Super Bowl and the rebuilding Chiefs would like to acquire extra draft picks.

 

The Buffalo Bills, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Green Bay Packers, New York Giants, Philadelphia Eagles have been in contact with the Chiefs regarding Gonzalez.

 

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3638551