Jerry Jabber Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 (edited) From Buffalorumblings.com: Buffalo still struggling to rush passer in 2008 One of the Buffalo Bills' biggest problems defensively in 2007 was their inability to consistently get pressure on opposing quarterbacks. The Bills finished the 2007 season with just 24 sacks as a team, and as a result, they fielded one of the league's worst defenses (statistically) last season. The defense did enough for the Bills to scratch and claw their way to a 7-9 record, but it was clear that without an improved pass rush, the Bills weren't going to get much better. So the team spent the off-season getting tougher up front, and the impact was immediate - the Bills registered five sacks in a season-opening win over the Seahawks. All was well - newcomers Marcus Stroud and Kawika Mitchell registered three of those sacks, and the Bills' defense dominated, holding the Seahawks to just 10 points. Four games later, however, the Bills have added only five more sacks to that season-opening total, and the team's pass rush woes are resurfacing. (more at link) Edited October 10, 2008 by Lori copyrighted material Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_wag Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 we need to see what ellis can do.......he cannot possibly be worse then bryan, who has added plenty of "suck" when he's been on the field Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 The problem I see though is that there may only be one missing piece but honestly it is gonna take 2 players to fill it. Even if Ellis were to play and be found to be the "missing piece" it will take 2 games max or simply just a halftime adjustment for opponents to pick up on this one player being the key. Today's successful teams have the ability to play multiple styles (one of the things which actually makes Schobel good is that he not only is a good "effort" rusher, but he also has developed good athleticism which allows him to be a key part of a zone blitz AND though experience and weight training he can stay at home or play the run. A player may have one great move or be great in one approach or scheme but if he does not at least play adequately at other facets of the game his appearance immediately telegraphs to the opposition what D style to expect. Either Ellis will have to show tremendous diversity or the Bills will need two players with similar skills as part of a rotation. My guess is not that Ellis sucks but something about his game his easily handled or not diverse enough not to tip off the enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazed and Amuzed Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 From Buffalorumblings.com: Buffalo still struggling to rush passer in 2008 One of the Buffalo Bills' biggest problems defensively in 2007 was their inability to consistently get pressure on opposing quarterbacks. The Bills finished the 2007 season with just 24 sacks as a team, and as a result, they fielded one of the league's worst defenses (statistically) last season. The defense did enough for the Bills to scratch and claw their way to a 7-9 record, but it was clear that without an improved pass rush, the Bills weren't going to get much better. So the team spent the off-season getting tougher up front, and the impact was immediate - the Bills registered five sacks in a season-opening win over the Seahawks. All was well - newcomers Marcus Stroud and Kawika Mitchell registered three of those sacks, and the Bills' defense dominated, holding the Seahawks to just 10 points. Four games later, however, the Bills have added only five more sacks to that season-opening total, and the team's pass rush woes are resurfacing. (more at link) Well thought out post. It's hard to disagree with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JStranger76 Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Same old lousy pass rush. White don't make it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Excerpt and link, please, instead of cutting and pasting the entire story. We thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 The problem I see though is that there may only be one missing piece but honestly it is gonna take 2 players to fill it. Even if Ellis were to play and be found to be the "missing piece" it will take 2 games max or simply just a halftime adjustment for opponents to pick up on this one player being the key. Today's successful teams have the ability to play multiple styles (one of the things which actually makes Schobel good is that he not only is a good "effort" rusher, but he also has developed good athleticism which allows him to be a key part of a zone blitz AND though experience and weight training he can stay at home or play the run. A player may have one great move or be great in one approach or scheme but if he does not at least play adequately at other facets of the game his appearance immediately telegraphs to the opposition what D style to expect. Either Ellis will have to show tremendous diversity or the Bills will need two players with similar skills as part of a rotation. My guess is not that Ellis sucks but something about his game his easily handled or not diverse enough not to tip off the enemy. A good G.M. needs to know when to dump a player 1 year too early, not 1 year too late. Signing Schobel to that MEGA contract was foolish and will be costing this team for some time I expect. Schobel looks about done last year. Can't get anything going against Mike Gandy? OMG. This scouting department/Hydra G.M. have continued problems drafting O-line and D-line talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lets_go_bills Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 If Schobel's bum foot his hampering him, maybe he should sit out a game and let Denney and Ellis get in there and show what they can do. With Stroud commanding double team, there's simply no excuse for the lack of sacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 If Schobel's bum foot his hampering him, maybe he should sit out a game and let Denney and Ellis get in there and show what they can do. With Stroud commanding double team, there's simply no excuse for the lack of sacks. It doesnt help when we abandon the blitz and just expect the 4 guys up front to do it all...either shows the staff is over confident in our d line or has a flawed def philosophy that needs to be adjusted in the bye week... We will not beat SD if we dont blitz and put pressure on Rivers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 A good G.M. needs to know when to dump a player 1 year too early, not 1 year too late. Signing Schobel to that MEGA contract was foolish and will be costing this team for some time I expect. Schobel looks about done last year. Can't get anything going against Mike Gandy? OMG. This scouting department/Hydra G.M. have continued problems drafting O-line and D-line talent. Ain't hindsight wonderful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortured Soul Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 It doesnt help when we abandon the blitz and just expect the 4 guys up front to do it all...either shows the staff is over confident in our d line or has a flawed def philosophy that needs to be adjusted in the bye week... We will not beat SD if we dont blitz and put pressure on Rivers... I absolutely agree that we need to blitz more, but the front four has to be able to do something on their own. Against Arizona, they didn't get so much as a pressure. The good defenses of the league get pressure rushing four. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 When Stroud and Schobel are healthy, the pass rush will be awesome! If it still sucks after they are healthy, there will be 100 different excuses as to why the front four can't generate a pass rush and none of them will be Schobel's fault! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 When Stroud and Schobel are healthy, the pass rush will be awesome! If it still sucks after they are healthy, there will be 100 different excuses as to why the front four can't generate a pass rush and none of them will be Schobel's fault! I hope you are right, and I do agree in the short term. However down the road, Jauron is going to have to focus on both lines if we are to be a competitive franchise. For instance, who on this team can push the pocket if Stroud gets hurt? Johnson? Williams? Of course not. Even with a healthy Stroud, we need another DT who plays this type of game to rotate with him and keep him fresh. As for the OL, Fowler looks pretty second rate to me, and we have a serious problem at Guard in terms of depth, this assuming that Butler picks up his game. A good TE seems almost unthinkable to this franchise as well. This offseason will tell us all we need to know about Jauron. If he once again uses our best draft picks on the secondary many will defend him, but the franchise will probably suffer for many years of more of the same. Still, these are issues that can in fact be addressed and corrected. We shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 A good G.M. needs to know when to dump a player 1 year too early, not 1 year too late. Signing Schobel to that MEGA contract was foolish and will be costing this team for some time I expect. Schobel looks about done last year. Can't get anything going against Mike Gandy? OMG. This scouting department/Hydra G.M. have continued problems drafting O-line and D-line talent. Give credit to the Arizona Coaching staff for that win. They do have one, if not the best OL coach in the league coaching that OL and do have so many weapons on the line.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills44 Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 Ain't hindsight wonderful? At the time, did anyone really think that the Schobel deal was good for the Bills? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 I hope you are right, and I do agree in the short term. However down the road, Jauron is going to have to focus on both lines if we are to be a competitive franchise. For instance, who on this team can push the pocket if Stroud gets hurt? Johnson? Williams? Of course not. Even with a healthy Stroud, we need another DT who plays this type of game to rotate with him and keep him fresh. As for the OL, Fowler looks pretty second rate to me, and we have a serious problem at Guard in terms of depth, this assuming that Butler picks up his game. A good TE seems almost unthinkable to this franchise as well. This offseason will tell us all we need to know about Jauron. If he once again uses our best draft picks on the secondary many will defend him, but the franchise will probably suffer for many years of more of the same. Still, these are issues that can in fact be addressed and corrected. We shall see. When did we fire Modrak and Brandon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whites Bay Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 I hope you are right, and I do agree in the short term. However down the road, Jauron is going to have to focus on both lines if we are to be a competitive franchise. For instance, who on this team can push the pocket if Stroud gets hurt? Johnson? Williams? Of course not. Even with a healthy Stroud, we need another DT who plays this type of game to rotate with him and keep him fresh. As for the OL, Fowler looks pretty second rate to me, and we have a serious problem at Guard in terms of depth, this assuming that Butler picks up his game. A good TE seems almost unthinkable to this franchise as well. This offseason will tell us all we need to know about Jauron. If he once again uses our best draft picks on the secondary many will defend him, but the franchise will probably suffer for many years of more of the same. Still, these are issues that can in fact be addressed and corrected. We shall see. Good morning, Bill. I'll start by saying that I have far less of a clue than most people on this board, and certainly less than you. I love your weekly "Thoughts on the Game" post, and, through them, have learned a thing or two from you. This having been said, my $0.02 is that you have to let go of this "Drafting nothing but the Secondary" bit! It's not healthy, and we need you around here! I'm not denying for a moment that OBD has spent an inordinate amount of time developing: McGee McLovin' Greer Youboty Simpson Whitner Wilson (I know I'm forgetting someone important) That's a heckuva secondary that virtually any team in the league would die for. The challenge for OBD this coming year is not drafting someone else in the secondary, but keeping those that they have in place. I'll be the first to admit that my livingroom still echoes with my "WTF" scream from the Whitner pick, but it looks like the front office knew what they were doing there, doesn't it? I just don't see that OBD is so goddamn ignorant that they'll be spending high draft picks on the secondary. I guess you do. It's okay. Let it go. Learn to focus your ire on the breathtakingly piss-poor ability of this O-Line to learn how to run block. You wanna get pissed off at a coach? Start barking at the offensive line coaching and planning. And then start getting pissed off at the lack of execution of the run blocking by the players themselves. We need that karma directed where it's going to do the most good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisonbrigade Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 where's Bruce Smith hen you need him. Or Bryce Paup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 A good G.M. needs to know when to dump a player 1 year too early, not 1 year too late. Signing Schobel to that MEGA contract was foolish and will be costing this team for some time I expect. Schobel looks about done last year. Can't get anything going against Mike Gandy? OMG. This scouting department/Hydra G.M. have continued problems drafting O-line and D-line talent. I'm sure all agree with the obvious that the Bills OL and DL have not done anything to help this team even reach the playoffs Duh)! The question is what should they do about it and/or is this team capable of doing it. I too have my doubts about the FO but this is mostly because I think like Fish rotting starts at the top. Ralph deserves the gratitude of Buffalo fans for keeping the team in this small market he bought because this was the best market he could get at the time. However, with this note of thanks reality also demands that we recognize that Ralph has swerved between some odd expenditures beyond what the market demanded (Kelsay's play nor prospects seemed to justify the amount the FO gave him or Ralph signing off on it). I think the main Schobel problem is that he clearly merited significantly more in terms of real production than Kelsay and when the Bills set the market for payment/production for DE Kelsay they set up a situation where they also were gonna overpay Schobel or deal with him being upset. The Bills have managed to muddle there way through a situation where they have a little of both. Whose fault is this? Ultimately it involves the actions of GMs Marv and TD and this leads to the ultimate correct conclusion that the fault if one chooses to dwell on things one has no control over is Ralph. Should Ralph get more capable GMs? Sure. However, any GM even if it was the competent Bill Polian (whom Ralph already burned through in a personal dispute) he would have to sleep in a bed built upon giving a seemingly market inappropriate contract to Kelsay and the impacts of that it is impossible for reality to deny that Schpbel does not deserve more than the stupid market value we set for Kelsay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 It's okay. Let it go. Learn to focus your ire on the breathtakingly piss-poor ability of this O-Line to learn how to run block. You wanna get pissed off at a coach? Start barking at the offensive line coaching and planning. And then start getting pissed off at the lack of execution of the run blocking by the players themselves. We need that karma directed where it's going to do the most good. Thank you for the kind words. You see, when a team spends draft resources that are beyond reasonable limits in any one area, some other place has to suffer. Imo it isn't possible to arrive at any other conclusion. This, along with McCargo being a huge disappointment, goes a long way toward explaining our defensive line problems. Your list was almost complete btw. You only omitted a few free agants, and a guy appropriately named "Corner." Safeties and corners comprise something called the "secondary," right? I have yet to hear it referred to as the "primary," yet this is where Jauron has devoted by far the most resources. Remember, to get a solid hold on how many early draft choices this has cost us, one must remember the multiple offers for our #8 pick in 06. Do you think that this should change in 09? As for the OL, you are right. There is a lack of young guys to step up in case of injuries. The run blocking has been suspect as well. I think that this can be explained by the Peters holdout, along with questionable play by Butler and poor play by Fowler. I am sure that Peters will return to form, and hoping that Butler will step up and improve his game. Fowler? It doesn't look good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightcrawler Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 From Buffalorumblings.com: Buffalo still struggling to rush passer in 2008 Absoultely right on! The Bills defense relies too much on their blitz packages for the pressure and for the sacks that should more often be coming from the defensive line. We have a good set of defensive tackles in Stroud, Williams, Johnson & McCargo. But, our defensive ends need to play with more consistently. An upgrade in skill through the draft is our best way to do it! Let's be honest. Copeland Bryan is a fringe player. Ryan Denney & Chris Kelsay are "hustle" guys but truly nothing more than backups on great-to-elite teams. Schobel is talented, but he really has only 1-2 years left as an above average starter in this league. Chris Ellis definitely needs some playing time to find out what he can bring to the table. If he turns out to be nothing more than a 3rd down pass rush specialist, then the Bills D-line is truly thin in talent and skill. Buffalo should spend a second round pick on a DE in the upcoming draft. And, the club should also consider bringing in a younger veteran (6 years or less) into the fold to replace Bryan and/or Denney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted October 12, 2008 Author Share Posted October 12, 2008 Excerpt and link, please, instead of cutting and pasting the entire story. We thank you. Thanks Lori, I'll remember for next time. Anyways, how are you doing today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Thanks Lori, I'll remember for next time. Anyways, how are you doing today? Penn State 48, Wisconsin 7. I'm doing just fine, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts