Jauron most underrated coach in NFL

[ndirish1978]

I actually do like most of their posts, so this gets a nod from me.

 

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/05/...ewis-overrated/

[stuckincincy]

Maybe it's just me - but isn't it better to have a rated coach instead of an underrated coach?

[keepthefaith]

I actually do like most of their posts, so this gets a nod from me.

 

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/05/...ewis-overrated/

 

He's done nothing in his career to be considered "uderrated". Everything points to him being a below average head coach. Nothing short of him and his teams "showing me otherwise" will change this opinion. I've watched him closely in every season he's been a head coach.

[ans4e64]

He's done nothing in his career to be considered "uderrated". Everything points to him being a below average head coach. Nothing short of him and his teams "showing me otherwise" will change this opinion. I've watched him closely in every season he's been a head coach.

 

Well then you saw how is aweful talent overachieved and performed adequately in almost every circumstance.

[generaLee83]

He's done nothing in his career to be considered "uderrated". Everything points to him being a below average head coach. Nothing short of him and his teams "showing me otherwise" will change this opinion. I've watched him closely in every season he's been a head coach.

 

Completely agreed.

 

I actually think he's overrated which is pretty terrible considering his career losing record as a coach. Jauron got way too much credit for the Bills 7-9 season last year. It was his poor decision making which prevented this team from being 9-7 and possibly even 10-6.

[keepthefaith]

Completely agreed.

 

I actually think he's overrated which is pretty terrible considering his career losing record as a coach. Jauron got way too much credit for the Bills 7-9 season last year. It was his poor decision making which prevented this team from being 9-7 and possibly even 10-6.

 

If there's an underrated coach on the Bills staff, my vote goes to Perry Fewell.

[BADOLBILZ]

Maybe it's just me - but isn't it better to have a rated coach instead of an underrated coach?

 

That's right. Jauron may be seen as underrated because people consider external factors as the reason for his lack of success. What they don't take into account is that in his second go as a full time NFL head coach, the talent he has lacked in some areas on the field is IMO a concession to him.

 

Perception is reality to NFL players, and he brings a lot of losing seasons to the table. That kind of stuff undermines him to vets who want a guy who just gets results. Exit cynical vets or ones who've had success elsewhere. And his reputation as a players coach to a fault means that he needs self motivated, accountable guys in that lockerroom who won't take advantage of his tendency to make excuses for his players. Exit guys like McGahee. A "rated" coach can deal with more types of personalities and win.

 

In essence, they've built this team around Jauron so it's hard for me to call him underrated.

[Pyrite Gal]

He's done nothing in his career to be considered "uderrated". Everything points to him being a below average head coach. Nothing short of him and his teams "showing me otherwise" will change this opinion. I've watched him closely in every season he's been a head coach.

To me the concept of over or under-rated is based less upon raw results and is more a statement of how a team (the buck ultimately stops with the field guy in charge whether he is given more credit or more blame than he deserves) performs versus expectations.

 

The simple fact is that Jauron can coach teams to a below average result (let's say 7-9) but if the conventional wisdom is that the team will actually end up with a significantly below average result (lets say 5-11) then if this happens on a recurring basis he can easily be judged to be under-rated.

 

The "ratings" of the conventional wisdom can also be influenced by outside of normal coaching factors such as injuries suffered or turmoil in the GM/business side of the team.

 

I think that the below average results of the teams coached by Jauron do often exceed the expectations of the conventional wisdom. In the end the awarding of the soubriquet or over or under-rated has as much to do with the "extenuating circumstances" or excuses being treated as reasons as it has to do with the raw results achieved.

 

By this measure Jauron can easily be seen as under-rated due to these realities where the notion calls for viewing excuses as reasons:

 

Chicago- The thing which makes it hard to judge him as under-rated in this case is that he actually is generally rated quite highly by the NFL and most viewers because he got NFL Coach of the Year honors for the 13-3 record. Still this any way you cut it outstanding results achieved is a key to his being judged over or under-rated in the future because the result is the result (however, this shows how random the "over/under-rated" tag can be as some are impressed by the team routinely racking up the great record with a bunch of last second wins while others see the last second nature wins as demonstrating somehow that Jauron is not that good of an HC).

 

To me the result is the result and Jauron deserves plaudits for his team consistently winning games by narrow margins as at least in a few of these cases a game decision made by the HC was ONE of the critical factors which had to have gone right in order for the Bears to win.

 

When one adds to the reality of this result, the reality that Jauron was inherited by a GM who wanted to hire his own guy as HC, this strikes me as the foundation of Jauron having been the HC of a team which produced an outstanding record, but him getting the boot as soon as a poor record allowed rather than him getting a mulligan for the result.

 

It certainly is an "excuse" which does not change at all what the result was. However, we are dealing with the relative judgment of whether he is over or under rated and this mere excuse becomes a reason since we are into the relative.

 

Did Jauron do better than the conventional wisdom estimated? No, not really but the conventional wisdom was so high because Jauron achieved an extraordinary result as HC (whether it was his doing primarily or not is not as important as the results were extraordinarily high at 13-3). However, he is given the benefit of the doubt for this one as they simply did achieve extraordinary results initially with him and when he got canned it was without him getting the benefit of the mulligan extraordinary results usually gives an HC.

 

DET- Here, he took on a job as interim and by definition the previous HC failed so badly he got canned from this extraordinarily bad team. Jauron exceeded the conventional wisdom here because the extraordinarily bad team responded to the switch. They did NOT achieve extraordinary results under him, but (particularly since idiot Millen was still there as GM) even simply showing up and being judged as playing hard exceeded the conventional wisdom for this horrible DET team.

 

BILLs- Like it or not the conventional wisdom was based upon the reality of a 5-11 record racked up under MM/TD in 05. Even in the face of the housecleaning which went on with folks like Mr. BabyMomma and quality older guys like Fletch and quality injured players like TKO the team achieved a result significantly above the CW of 7-0. If Jauron's squad had produced results based on how folks "rated" them even getting worse before they got better and finishing 4-12 would not have been a good thing at all but would not have been an extraordinary departure from where Jauron might have been rated to do.

 

Even with last year, though the CW may well have not unreasonably demanded that he improve on his 7-9 record. The simple fact that this team easily led the NFL in players on the IR is a mere excuse which becomes a reason in assessing whether he was over or under rated.

 

Overall, I care most about the real world and results. I expect Jauron to show reasonable improvement over last year's 7-9 record and he at least should compete if not make the playoffs in 08 or he will need a reason not to be canned IMHO (and actually if the team looks good, improves, and/or has some bad breaks which cost them the playoffs I easily can see sticking with a Jauron who fails to make the playoffs in 08 IF he team is headed in the right direction).

 

However. actual results and whether an HC is over or under rated are two different things. Even more poorly the posts which claim falsely that Jauron has done nothing (like it or not he was coach of the year when his team went 13-3) are simply wrong as they seem to fail to understand that there is a difference between results expectations.

 

Whether Jauron is over/under rated has more to do directly with expectations than results.

[Steely Dan]

He's done nothing in his career to be considered "uderrated". Everything points to him being a below average head coach. Nothing short of him and his teams "showing me otherwise" will change this opinion. I've watched him closely in every season he's been a head coach.

 

A lot of HC's would have ended up with a 2-14 record after enduring what the Bills did last year. 'Nuff said.

 

Completely agreed.

 

I actually think he's overrated which is pretty terrible considering his career losing record as a coach. Jauron got way too much credit for the Bills 7-9 season last year. It was his poor decision making which prevented this team from being 9-7 and possibly even 10-6.

 

The excuses are over for him. Unless seventeen more players get hurt and five or six are opening day starters he has to make the playoffs. I think they will.

[keepthefaith]

A lot of HC's would have ended up with a 2-14 record after enduring what the Bills did last year. 'Nuff said.

 

 

 

The excuses are over for him. Unless seventeen more players get hurt and five or six are opening day starters he has to make the playoffs. I think they will.

 

Really? name some, and I won't accept Hank Bullough or Kay Stevenson. Actually, Jauron is alot like Kay. Nice guy who'll finish last, but he's really nice.

[Sisyphean Bills]

A lot of HC's would have ended up with a 2-14 record after enduring what the Bills did last year. 'Nuff said.

 

Hypothetically, if the Bills were in the AFC South, for example, their record last year might not have been much more than 2-14 or 3-13.

 

Really? name some, and I won't accept Hank Bullough or Kay Stevenson. Actually, Jauron is alot like Kay. Nice guy who'll finish last, but he's really nice.

 

Would you accept Rich Kotite?

[generaLee83]

A lot of HC's would have ended up with a 2-14 record after enduring what the Bills did last year. 'Nuff said.

 

I think it's crazy to have that type of confidence in such a speculation.

[C.Biscuit97]

Hypothetically, if the Bills were in the AFC South, for example, their record last year might not have been much more than 2-14 or 3-13.

 

Hypothetically, if the Bills were in the NFC West, for example, their record last year might not have been much less than 12-4 or 11-5. Hypothetically speaking, it is extremely dumb to compare things hypothetically.

[Steely Dan]

Really? name some, and I won't accept Hank Bullough or Kay Stevenson. Actually, Jauron is alot like Kay. Nice guy who'll finish last, but he's really nice.

 

Lovie Smith, Lane Kiffin, Cam Cameron, Eric Mangini, Scott Linehan, Mike Nolan, Mike Mularkey, Gregg Williams, Marvin Lewis, Herman Edwards, Mike Martz, Jim Mora Jr., Rod Marinelli, Brian Billick and Joe Gibbs.

[keepthefaith]

Would you accept Rich Kotite?

 

 

Hmmmm.....

 

I think Rich would have gotten more wins because he would have stuck with JP all year.

[C.Biscuit97]

Completely agreed.

 

I actually think he's overrated which is pretty terrible considering his career losing record as a coach. Jauron got way too much credit for the Bills 7-9 season last year. It was his poor decision making which prevented this team from being 9-7 and possibly even 10-6.

 

 

Obviously, the Dallas game was ultimately decided by a few questionable plays at the end. However, if some recovers an onside kick, they game is over. That's on the players.

 

Also, who had the Bills winning that game? We had a rookie QB in his 2nd start, and UDFAs at MLB, corner, and FS (a receiver making the switch to FS) against an undefeated Super Bowl contender. Who even had the Bills being close in that game???

 

Everything in life is perspective. Is the glass half full or is it half empty. Of course, you can be a bitter fan and come to a Bills board and jsut talk about how much Jauron sucks. However as a Bills fan, I can enjoy this offseason and be excited that this is the best roster Jauron has ever had. I can look at the positives of last season and just picture what a healthy team (guys like Poz, Stroud, McKelvin, etc.) could do. But I guess I'm just a loser for that kinda of talk.

[keepthefaith]

Lovie Smith, Lane Kiffin, Cam Cameron, Eric Mangini, Scott Linehan, Mike Nolan, Mike Mularkey, Gregg Williams, Marvin Lewis, Herman Edwards, Mike Martz, Jim Mora Jr., Rod Marinelli, Brian Billick and Joe Gibbs.

 

I think most of these guys can coach circles around "Captain Conservatism". Most, but not all. ".

[Steely Dan]

Lovie Smith, Lane Kiffin, Cam Cameron, Eric Mangini, Scott Linehan, Mike Nolan, Mike Mularkey, Gregg Williams, Marvin Lewis, Herman Edwards, Mike Martz, Jim Mora Jr., Rod Marinelli, Brian Billick and Joe Gibbs.

 

 

I think most of these guys can coach circles around "Captain Conservatism". Most, but not all. ".

 

Last years records:

 

Bills - 7-9

Panthers - 7-9

Bears - 7-9

Bengals - 7-9

Bronco's - 7-9

Saints - 7-9

Detroit - 7-9

Ravens - 5-11

49ers - 5-11

Falcons - 4-12

Cheifs - 4-12

Jets - 4-12

Raiders - 4-12

St. Louis - 3-13

Miami - 1-15

 

13 teams had the same or worse records than Buffalo last year. The Bills were one of the youngest teams in the NFL last year and had 17 injuries, the most in the league and that also included Kevin Everett's catastrophic injury in the first game, and they still finished the same or better than 13 teams that had much better situations all year. Some of those HC's I left off the list but looking at it now I probably should have put them on the list too. 'Nuff said.

[ax4782]

Would you accept Rich Kotite?

 

 

 

Hmmmm.....

 

I think Rich would have gotten more wins because he would have stuck with JP all year.

 

I see. So outside factors do matter in evaluating a coach, so long as they are the factors that you are primarily concerned with? The fact is the realities of football, like injury and overall team talent play a huge role, not only in the team's overall success, but also in the decisions that a coach reasonably has open to him. To suggest that Jauron is completely responsible for every bad team he has been forced to coach is ridiculous. I think being able to get that team last year motivated to play as well as they did speaks volumes. Not only did he get them to play, they were in the playoff race until Week 15. Not too many other teams with that number of injuries would have been able to say that. And IMO, all of you who think that Jauron is such a terrible coach, I wonder what you would have said had they actually made the playoffs last year, hypothetically speaking?

[Sisyphean Bills]

Hypothetically, if the Bills were in the NFC West, for example, their record last year might not have been much less than 12-4 or 11-5.

Really? Was the NFC West so much inferior to the high-powered AFC East? Let's see, the NFC West played the NFC South and the AFC North.

 

So really, you're saying the Bills would've won 5 more games because they'd, I guess, sweep the NFC West, which would only get them to 9-7. So the other 3 games would have to come against the AFC North (which they went 2-2 against) the NFC South (they went 1-3 against the NFC East; Atlanta and Carolina arguably nets 1 more win; we're up to 10), or wins against the 2 free opponents (which they whiffed on going 0-2).

 

On the other hand, this is optimistic and a few bumps in the road puts the Bills right back to hovering at around 8-8 with all the rest of the middling also-rans.

Hypothetically speaking, it is extremely dumb to compare things hypothetically.

Tell that to the people that keep posting the Bills wouldn't have won more than 3 games without Jauron.

[Steely Dan]

Really? Was the NFC West so much inferior to the high-powered AFC East? Let's see, the NFC West played the NFC South and the AFC North.

 

So really, you're saying the Bills would've won 5 more games because they'd, I guess, sweep the NFC West, which would only get them to 9-7. So the other 3 games would have to come against the AFC North (which they went 2-2 against) the NFC South (they went 1-3 against the NFC East; Atlanta and Carolina arguably nets 1 more win; we're up to 10), or wins against the 2 free opponents (which they whiffed on going 0-2).

 

On the other hand, this is optimistic and a few bumps in the road puts the Bills right back to hovering at around 8-8 with all the rest of the middling also-rans.

 

Tell that to the people that keep posting the Bills wouldn't have won more than 3 games without Jauron.

 

How about looking at the facts of record in my post above.

[Sisyphean Bills]

How about looking at the facts of record in my post above.

I've got no beef with your speculations, SD. You're not the one calling people idiots.

 

13 teams had worse records means 18 teams had better records, zero-sum game and all. To be a playoff team, that means the Bills have to pass 6 teams ahead of them (3 AFC teams) and hope nobody from behind passes them in the process. The Jets and Dolphins are working hard to improve; I'm not sure they should be taken as afterthoughts and as 4 automatic wins. Any of the 7-9 teams could improve from last year and all of them except for the Bills and Lions have gotten to the playoffs in recent memory. Want to talk injuries? The Ravens were a 13-3 team in 2006 and were decimated with injuries last year. They still have talent, if they can put it together and stay healthy.

[ax4782]

How about looking at the facts of record in my post above.

 

Too bad people around here don't look at facts more often. Rather they are more concerned with spouting their dislikes or unhappinesses rather than engaging in legitimate discussions concerning a topic. That is unfortunately the problem. When you confront emotion with reason, you can't win. Many have a dislike for Jauron, for whatever reason. Maybe they wanted another person for the job and are still bitter. Maybe they think they could have done better than 7-9 with a secondary made up of PS players who gave it their all. Maybe they just don't understand that the coach is not the one who makes the plays. Or they forgot that Steve RUN RUN PASS Fairchild was the coordinator last year and was actually the one running the offense. But none of that matters. To many who dislike Jauron, the only thing that matters is that the team was 7-9 and since he was the coach, well, that must have been completely his fault.

 

Perhaps we should get another coach, and implement a new offensive system. That should only set us back another three years. And by then, well, the fans will be tired of that coach and we'll have to get another one. Change and competitiveness in football have to do with consistency at the helm and having a solid core of players than they do with having a superstar coach. By the logic of many on this board, Buffalo should have never hired Marv Levy based on his performance in KC, Bill Belicheat should never have gone to the Patriots after his performance in Cleveland, and Brian Billick should NEVER have become a coach with the Ravens or any other Team. All of those coaches, however, were given an opportunity, and after taking charge and reshaping the team to their requirements, they saw a lot of success. Jauron and the Bills are fielding our best team in years this season. Could we please stop and give the team a chance to succeed before we start piling on the coaching staff. Another change at the helm, what would be the fourth in ten years, is only going to set us back. Before we doom ourselves to three more years of defeat and become the Detroit Lions, let's see what this season brings.

[Steely Dan]

Too bad people around here don't look at facts more often. Rather they are more concerned with spouting their dislikes or unhappinesses rather than engaging in legitimate discussions concerning a topic. That is unfortunately the problem. When you confront emotion with reason, you can't win. Many have a dislike for Jauron, for whatever reason. Maybe they wanted another person for the job and are still bitter. Maybe they think they could have done better than 7-9 with a secondary made up of PS players who gave it their all. Maybe they just don't understand that the coach is not the one who makes the plays. Or they forgot that Steve RUN RUN PASS Fairchild was the coordinator last year and was actually the one running the offense. But none of that matters. To many who dislike Jauron, the only thing that matters is that the team was 7-9 and since he was the coach, well, that must have been completely his fault.

 

Perhaps we should get another coach, and implement a new offensive system. That should only set us back another three years. And by then, well, the fans will be tired of that coach and we'll have to get another one. Change and competitiveness in football have to do with consistency at the helm and having a solid core of players than they do with having a superstar coach. By the logic of many on this board, Buffalo should have never hired Marv Levy based on his performance in KC, Bill Belicheat should never have gone to the Patriots after his performance in Cleveland, and Brian Billick should NEVER have become a coach with the Ravens or any other Team. All of those coaches, however, were given an opportunity, and after taking charge and reshaping the team to their requirements, they saw a lot of success. Jauron and the Bills are fielding our best team in years this season. Could we please stop and give the team a chance to succeed before we start piling on the coaching staff. Another change at the helm, what would be the fourth in ten years, is only going to set us back. Before we doom ourselves to three more years of defeat and become the Detroit Lions, let's see what this season brings.

 

Well stated!

[Pyrite Gal]

The weirdest thing about folks diatribes against Jauron is that actually the subject of this thread is about emotion rather than simply results (which IMHO is actually the most important thing). This thread is not only about his results (which I think on the face of it were slightly below average at 7-9 in a league which tends toward almost all teams competing for the playoffs even if they are only 8-8) but is specifically about whether he is over or under rated.

 

The weird thing is that not only are folks simply wrong when they claim he has done nothing (at worst on the face of it he is a one time NFL Coach of the Year who has produced a slightly below average record with much less than average teams) but actually they are even more wrong about saying that even this level of below average production is less than the conventional wisdom rated him as likely to produce.

 

Bears- The CW had him producing at best a slightly above average team initially but he exceeded expectation by HCing the team to a 13-3 record.

 

The CW did not go up drastically for him despite this success because the front office was clearly in disarray. When a new GM was hired he could not fire Jauron because of his past success but it was clearly a matter of time before he was gonna get canned and so it was.

 

DET- I do not see how anyone could claim that their was any expectation of him doing well with the team he took over which got the HC canned. It did not do well.

 

However, it seems to be generally agreed that Jauron exceeded expectations here as this team at least showed up to play under him and was at least simply bad rather than horrendous.

 

Bills- This team was 5-11 when he got here and he and the new braintrust went about cleaning house getting rid of WM, Fletch, and TKO. Still though the result was slightly below average at 7-9, it likely exceeded where most watchers would rate a bad team in a transition year as doing.

 

Last year, the result was clear and about the same at the same 7-9. Yet, again this less than average production exceeded what the conventional wisdom would expect from a team which led the league in players on IR.

 

Has Jauron delivered a winner to Bills fans?

 

No.

 

Has he exceeded reasonable expectations about what result a 5-11 team undergoing a housecleaning and then suffering a league leading total of players on IR would produce?

 

Yep.

 

Folks can certainly make a credible argument that the CW should have been higher and observers were wrong to underate what the Bills would do in 2008 despite the injuries.

 

However, some do not want to make this logical argument but instead seem to want to rely on rants against Jauron which ignore his past Coach of the Year honor with incorrect claims he has done nothing. Or they instead choose to argue the relative case of whether he and the Bills were overrated with reliance on the absolute of the team record while ignoring the IR fact.

 

IMHO opinion the facts are that Jauron produced slightly worse than average results working with a bad team rebuilding from a 5-11 record and in the face of leading the league in players on IR.

 

These strike me as the simple facts and folks who simply choose to ignore this end up looking like fools,

 

Some may argue that it is all about results. i say yeah but in the words of Dick Cheney... So?

 

The key will likely be the results produced in 08 or more likely 09 since Jauron has been HC on a team which has prodced slightly less than average results when they were so bad in terms of the players we had this team could easily have produced one of the NFLs worst records in either of the last two years.

 

The facts simply are that Jauron HC'ed awful Bills teams to slightly worse than average results. One can reasonably argue that Jauron has failings that will not get the Bills over the top, however making demonstrably false claims that he has never succeeded anywhere or not recognizing the 06 Bills were simply an awful team completely undercuts any attempt to do a rational critique.

Too bad people around here don't look at facts more often. Rather they are more concerned with spouting their dislikes or unhappinesses rather than engaging in legitimate discussions concerning a topic. That is unfortunately the problem. When you confront emotion with reason, you can't win. Many have a dislike for Jauron, for whatever reason. Maybe they wanted another person for the job and are still bitter. Maybe they think they could have done better than 7-9 with a secondary made up of PS players who gave it their all. Maybe they just don't understand that the coach is not the one who makes the plays. Or they forgot that Steve RUN RUN PASS Fairchild was the coordinator last year and was actually the one running the offense. But none of that matters. To many who dislike Jauron, the only thing that matters is that the team was 7-9 and since he was the coach, well, that must have been completely his fault.

 

Perhaps we should get another coach, and implement a new offensive system. That should only set us back another three years. And by then, well, the fans will be tired of that coach and we'll have to get another one. Change and competitiveness in football have to do with consistency at the helm and having a solid core of players than they do with having a superstar coach. By the logic of many on this board, Buffalo should have never hired Marv Levy based on his performance in KC, Bill Belicheat should never have gone to the Patriots after his performance in Cleveland, and Brian Billick should NEVER have become a coach with the Ravens or any other Team. All of those coaches, however, were given an opportunity, and after taking charge and reshaping the team to their requirements, they saw a lot of success. Jauron and the Bills are fielding our best team in years this season. Could we please stop and give the team a chance to succeed before we start piling on the coaching staff. Another change at the helm, what would be the fourth in ten years, is only going to set us back. Before we doom ourselves to three more years of defeat and become the Detroit Lions, let's see what this season brings.

[ax4782]

The weirdest thing about folks diatribes against Jauron is that actually the subject of this thread is about emotion rather than simply results (which IMHO is actually the most important thing). This thread is not only about his results (which I think on the face of it were slightly below average at 7-9 in a league which tends toward almost all teams competing for the playoffs even if they are only 8-8) but is specifically about whether he is over or under rated.

 

The weird thing is that not only are folks simply wrong when they claim he has done nothing (at worst on the face of it he is a one time NFL Coach of the Year who has produced a slightly below average record with much less than average teams) but actually they are even more wrong about saying that even this level of below average production is less than the conventional wisdom rated him as likely to produce.

 

Bears- The CW had him producing at best a slightly above average team initially but he exceeded expectation by HCing the team to a 13-3 record.

 

The CW did not go up drastically for him despite this success because the front office was clearly in disarray. When a new GM was hired he could not fire Jauron because of his past success but it was clearly a matter of time before he was gonna get canned and so it was.

 

DET- I do not see how anyone could claim that their was any expectation of him doing well with the team he took over which got the HC canned. It did not do well.

 

However, it seems to be generally agreed that Jauron exceeded expectations here as this team at least showed up to play under him and was at least simply bad rather than horrendous.

 

Bills- This team was 5-11 when he got here and he and the new braintrust went about cleaning house getting rid of WM, Fletch, and TKO. Still though the result was slightly below average at 7-9, it likely exceeded where most watchers would rate a bad team in a transition year as doing.

 

Last year, the result was clear and about the same at the same 7-9. Yet, again this less than average production exceeded what the conventional wisdom would expect from a team which led the league in players on IR.

 

Has Jauron delivered a winner to Bills fans?

 

No.

 

Has he exceeded reasonable expectations about what result a 5-11 team undergoing a housecleaning and then suffering a league leading total of players on IR would produce?

 

Yep.

 

Folks can certainly make a credible argument that the CW should have been higher and observers were wrong to underate what the Bills would do in 2008 despite the injuries.

 

However, some do not want to make this logical argument but instead seem to want to rely on rants against Jauron which ignore his past Coach of the Year honor with incorrect claims he has done nothing. Or they instead choose to argue the relative case of whether he and the Bills were overrated with reliance on the absolute of the team record while ignoring the IR fact.

 

IMHO opinion the facts are that Jauron produced slightly worse than average results working with a bad team rebuilding from a 5-11 record and in the face of leading the league in players on IR.

 

These strike me as the simple facts and folks who simply choose to ignore this end up looking like fools,

 

Some may argue that it is all about results. i say yeah but in the words of Dick Cheney... So?

 

The key will likely be the results produced in 08 or more likely 09 since Jauron has been HC on a team which has prodced slightly less than average results when they were so bad in terms of the players we had this team could easily have produced one of the NFLs worst records in either of the last two years.

 

The facts simply are that Jauron HC'ed awful Bills teams to slightly worse than average results. One can reasonably argue that Jauron has failings that will not get the Bills over the top, however making demonstrably false claims that he has never succeeded anywhere or not recognizing the 06 Bills were simply an awful team completely undercuts any attempt to do a rational critique.

 

This may have been the most rational and well stated position on the argument that I have seen. Well said. I completely second your statements and analysis, as seen in the post I submitted that you quoted. Very nicely put.

[KD in CA]

Really? name some, and I won't accept Hank Bullough or Kay Stevenson. Actually, Jauron is alot like Kay. Nice guy who'll finish last, but he's really nice.

 

 

Look what happened to 'Man-Genius' last season when the Jets had a little adversary. They fell completely apart and only managed 4 wins cause they played the Fish twice.

[Steely Dan]

The weirdest thing about folks diatribes against Jauron is that actually the subject of this thread is about emotion rather than simply results (which IMHO is actually the most important thing). This thread is not only about his results (which I think on the face of it were slightly below average at 7-9 in a league which tends toward almost all teams competing for the playoffs even if they are only 8-8) but is specifically about whether he is over or under rated.

 

The weird thing is that not only are folks simply wrong when they claim he has done nothing (at worst on the face of it he is a one time NFL Coach of the Year who has produced a slightly below average record with much less than average teams) but actually they are even more wrong about saying that even this level of below average production is less than the conventional wisdom rated him as likely to produce.

 

Bears- The CW had him producing at best a slightly above average team initially but he exceeded expectation by HCing the team to a 13-3 record.

 

The CW did not go up drastically for him despite this success because the front office was clearly in disarray. When a new GM was hired he could not fire Jauron because of his past success but it was clearly a matter of time before he was gonna get canned and so it was.

 

DET- I do not see how anyone could claim that their was any expectation of him doing well with the team he took over which got the HC canned. It did not do well.

 

However, it seems to be generally agreed that Jauron exceeded expectations here as this team at least showed up to play under him and was at least simply bad rather than horrendous.

 

Bills- This team was 5-11 when he got here and he and the new braintrust went about cleaning house getting rid of WM, Fletch, and TKO. Still though the result was slightly below average at 7-9, it likely exceeded where most watchers would rate a bad team in a transition year as doing.

 

Last year, the result was clear and about the same at the same 7-9. Yet, again this less than average production exceeded what the conventional wisdom would expect from a team which led the league in players on IR.

 

Has Jauron delivered a winner to Bills fans?

 

No.

 

Has he exceeded reasonable expectations about what result a 5-11 team undergoing a housecleaning and then suffering a league leading total of players on IR would produce?

 

Yep.

 

Folks can certainly make a credible argument that the CW should have been higher and observers were wrong to underate what the Bills would do in 2008 despite the injuries.

 

However, some do not want to make this logical argument but instead seem to want to rely on rants against Jauron which ignore his past Coach of the Year honor with incorrect claims he has done nothing. Or they instead choose to argue the relative case of whether he and the Bills were overrated with reliance on the absolute of the team record while ignoring the IR fact.

 

IMHO opinion the facts are that Jauron produced slightly worse than average results working with a bad team rebuilding from a 5-11 record and in the face of leading the league in players on IR.

 

These strike me as the simple facts and folks who simply choose to ignore this end up looking like fools,

 

Some may argue that it is all about results. i say yeah but in the words of Dick Cheney... So?

 

The key will likely be the results produced in 08 or more likely 09 since Jauron has been HC on a team which has prodced slightly less than average results when they were so bad in terms of the players we had this team could easily have produced one of the NFLs worst records in either of the last two years.

 

The facts simply are that Jauron HC'ed awful Bills teams to slightly worse than average results. One can reasonably argue that Jauron has failings that will not get the Bills over the top, however making demonstrably false claims that he has never succeeded anywhere or not recognizing the 06 Bills were simply an awful team completely undercuts any attempt to do a rational critique.

 

Well stated too! I would have avoided the Cheyney quote though.

 

 

Look what happened to 'Man-Genius' last season when the Jets had a little adversary. They fell completely apart and only managed 4 wins cause they played the Fish twice.

 

 

My point exactly. Jauron refused to use the Kevin Everett injury as a rallying cry and I think that gave him a lot more respect from all of his players that already love the guy. They obviously play hard for him. Now that unFairchild is gone I'm hoping the offense produces at the level it really should be producing at. When Jauron was hired Troy Vincent called his buddies around the league and he couldn't find one to say anything bad about the guy. He commands the respect of his players because he treats them like men.

[eball]

Too bad people around here don't look at facts more often. Rather they are more concerned with spouting their dislikes or unhappinesses rather than engaging in legitimate discussions concerning a topic. That is unfortunately the problem. When you confront emotion with reason, you can't win. Many have a dislike for Jauron, for whatever reason. Maybe they wanted another person for the job and are still bitter. Maybe they think they could have done better than 7-9 with a secondary made up of PS players who gave it their all. Maybe they just don't understand that the coach is not the one who makes the plays. Or they forgot that Steve RUN RUN PASS Fairchild was the coordinator last year and was actually the one running the offense. But none of that matters. To many who dislike Jauron, the only thing that matters is that the team was 7-9 and since he was the coach, well, that must have been completely his fault.

 

Perhaps we should get another coach, and implement a new offensive system. That should only set us back another three years. And by then, well, the fans will be tired of that coach and we'll have to get another one. Change and competitiveness in football have to do with consistency at the helm and having a solid core of players than they do with having a superstar coach. By the logic of many on this board, Buffalo should have never hired Marv Levy based on his performance in KC, Bill Belicheat should never have gone to the Patriots after his performance in Cleveland, and Brian Billick should NEVER have become a coach with the Ravens or any other Team. All of those coaches, however, were given an opportunity, and after taking charge and reshaping the team to their requirements, they saw a lot of success. Jauron and the Bills are fielding our best team in years this season. Could we please stop and give the team a chance to succeed before we start piling on the coaching staff. Another change at the helm, what would be the fourth in ten years, is only going to set us back. Before we doom ourselves to three more years of defeat and become the Detroit Lions, let's see what this season brings.

Nicely stated, but unfortunately such a post falls upon too many deaf ears around here. I think it's completely reasonable to suggest the 2008 Bills are their most talented team since perhaps '99. If they sustain only a "normal" amount of injuries, then based upon the schedule a playoff spot (or at a minimum, a winning record) is what I'm expecting. If that doesn't happen, then I do believe everyone is rightfully under scrutiny -- particularly the HC.

[ax4782]

Nicely stated, but unfortunately such a post falls upon too many deaf ears around here. I think it's completely reasonable to suggest the 2008 Bills are their most talented team since perhaps '99. If they sustain only a "normal" amount of injuries, then based upon the schedule a playoff spot (or at a minimum, a winning record) is what I'm expecting. If that doesn't happen, then I do believe everyone is rightfully under scrutiny -- particularly the HC.

 

Right on.

[todd]

"Deaf ears" is putting it nicely. Good post.

 

Nicely stated, but unfortunately such a post falls upon too many deaf ears around here. I think it's completely reasonable to suggest the 2008 Bills are their most talented team since perhaps '99. If they sustain only a "normal" amount of injuries, then based upon the schedule a playoff spot (or at a minimum, a winning record) is what I'm expecting. If that doesn't happen, then I do believe everyone is rightfully under scrutiny -- particularly the HC.

[todd]

Word.

 

Too bad people around here don't look at facts more often. Rather they are more concerned with spouting their dislikes or unhappinesses rather than engaging in legitimate discussions concerning a topic. That is unfortunately the problem. When you confront emotion with reason, you can't win. Many have a dislike for Jauron, for whatever reason. Maybe they wanted another person for the job and are still bitter. Maybe they think they could have done better than 7-9 with a secondary made up of PS players who gave it their all. Maybe they just don't understand that the coach is not the one who makes the plays. Or they forgot that Steve RUN RUN PASS Fairchild was the coordinator last year and was actually the one running the offense. But none of that matters. To many who dislike Jauron, the only thing that matters is that the team was 7-9 and since he was the coach, well, that must have been completely his fault.

 

Perhaps we should get another coach, and implement a new offensive system. That should only set us back another three years. And by then, well, the fans will be tired of that coach and we'll have to get another one. Change and competitiveness in football have to do with consistency at the helm and having a solid core of players than they do with having a superstar coach. By the logic of many on this board, Buffalo should have never hired Marv Levy based on his performance in KC, Bill Belicheat should never have gone to the Patriots after his performance in Cleveland, and Brian Billick should NEVER have become a coach with the Ravens or any other Team. All of those coaches, however, were given an opportunity, and after taking charge and reshaping the team to their requirements, they saw a lot of success. Jauron and the Bills are fielding our best team in years this season. Could we please stop and give the team a chance to succeed before we start piling on the coaching staff. Another change at the helm, what would be the fourth in ten years, is only going to set us back. Before we doom ourselves to three more years of defeat and become the Detroit Lions, let's see what this season brings.

[todd]

So going 12-3 was meaningless?

 

He's done nothing in his career to be considered "uderrated". Everything points to him being a below average head coach. Nothing short of him and his teams "showing me otherwise" will change this opinion. I've watched him closely in every season he's been a head coach.

[scribo]

Well, we're about to see just how good he is -- he has a young, talented roster with a bit of experience now. But there are off the field issues sprouting up left and right along with increased national media attention. Can Jauron keep the Bills focused enough to make the playoffs? This is his chance. Here's to hoping and praying he can show everyone that he is good. So next year, he won't be underrated -- just highly rated.

[Sen. John Blutarsky]

He's done nothing in his career to be considered "uderrated". Everything points to him being a below average head coach. Nothing short of him and his teams "showing me otherwise" will change this opinion. I've watched him closely in every season he's been a head coach.

maybe it's possible that we just haven't been very good the last two years. What our team has done an excellent job of is playing hard. They had tons of chances to run for the bus last year but they kept showing up and playing hard. The coach plays a big role in that. It's not the BS pep talks it's the environment he builds throughout the year.

 

Even before the injuries I don't think we were a very good team but afterwards we were pretty bad. I watched the Redkins game yesterday and ticked off guy after guy who is no longer on the roster who was seeing significant playing time. Leonhard, Hargrove, Stamer, and Haggan at least. They went down 11 points early in that game and still won despite it being the Sean Taylor game, on the road.

 

Hell, even the GOOD Bills lost to the Jets the week after Dennis Byrd's paralysis. Whether you like DJ or not they were a gutty team last year and if they bring that level of hustle and determination to this season with better talent they'll be darn good.