DrDawkinstein Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 But if we lose both of them AND let Kelsay walk I will not feel good about being a fan of this franchise. Unless of course we bring in a BIG NAME DE to replace him. But between our cap-room and needing some continuity within the player personell AND the fact that we wont find anyone at his level any cheaper anyways... he better be a Bill next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 But if we lose both of them AND let Kelsay walk I will not feel good about being a fan of this franchise. Unless of course we bring in a BIG NAME DE to replace him. But between our cap-room and needing some continuity within the player personell AND the fact that we wont find anyone at his level any cheaper anyways... he better be a Bill next year. Agreed. How does a 7-9 team improve enough to make the playoffs and still lose those guys? Reality says you don't lose starters and then replace all of them from within. I don't care who you are, most teams don't get big time production from their 4th-7th round selections. I'd say of our 4th-7th round picks from last year, one or two guys might become legit NFL starters. All of them becoming starters is wishful thinking. Those players combined with lower priced FA's and the 07 draft class still doesn't make up for the loss of established NFL veteran starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koufax Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Or we can just make smart moves to become a better team by upgrading some positions while accepting necessary downgrades at others. We need to figure out our corners if Nate leaves, but I look forward to Ashton playing. We definitely need to figure out MLB if London leaves, and I'm not sure we can do that without adding personnel. If Kelsey leaves we have Hargrove and Denney opposite Schobel, which I think is pretty solid. With Kyle maturing a year and us getting McCargo back DT needs a fourth guy to replace Anderson, but he doesn't have to be an overpaid big name. OG is still by far the position I worry most about. Other than the two guards (one if you think Gandy can be solid, but no way Preston of Villareal should start for us) what we have is a fairly balanced football team, with a lot of positions that are kinda average and not exciting. That gives us the flexibility to go after the best players in the draft, and the best values in free agency. If we get a tremendous LB and a pretty good corner, that is fine. If we get a pretty good LB and a tremendous DT that is fine. If we get a pretty good DT and a tremendous WR that is fine, etc. Lots of positions can use an upgrade, but lots of positions have decent players filling them right now, so we can let the market and draft decide what positions we pick up where, getting the best talent and value, and not go in with a road map we have to follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Agreed. How does a 7-9 team improve enough to make the playoffs and still lose those guys? Reality says you don't lose starters and then replace all of them from within......... That's right.....you lose them via free agency & you get some other starter calibre players via free agency. If what I've read in another thread is correct & we are obliged to spend 90% of the cap, we will simply have to replace NC & LF with high priced FAs(Their contracts alone last season added to over $11mil). On this team, I'd have Steinbach & a 2nd tier CB over NC any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 16, 2007 Author Share Posted February 16, 2007 That's right.....you lose them via free agency & you get some other starter calibre players via free agency. If what I've read in another thread is correct & we are obliged to spend 90% of the cap, we will simply have to replace NC & LF with high priced FAs(Their contracts alone last season added to over $11mil). On this team, I'd have Steinbach & a 2nd tier CB over NC any day. thats fine, and im not saying we should throw money at our guys just because WE drafted them, regardless of talent and other talent available. but we need to retain some of our own talent sooner or later. imagine working in an office where co-workers in your department were allowed to walk and the bosses just replaced them with some other guys of equal talent every year. continuity is a major part of playing a team sport. when you play with someone for a few years you get to a point where you know what they are going to do and where they are going to be before they even do it. you make relationships/friendships with guys that spawn positivity. lets face it, players arent knocking down the door to play in greater Western NY. we need all the help with ways to keep guys happy as possible. this thread was more of a focus on players at Kelsay's talent and price level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 this thread was more of a focus on players at Kelsay's talent and price level. In relation to that......it seems there are quite a few DEs projected for the top 15 of the draft. I wouldn't be surprised that Kelsay's replacement(if he goes) is in this draft. Re: your other point......we've recently(ish) re-signed/signed Crowell, Peters, Denney, Schobel, Triplett, Fowler, Royal, Reed, Moorman, Lindell & McGee. When you consider that most of the other starters that are worth re-signing are still in their rookie contracts(Whitner, Simpson, Losman, Evans, Pennington, McGahee & Williams), I'd say that letting a few players go is not going to affect the status quo/chemistry much at all. The defensive sytem was new last year with 5 new young starters. The only real problem I see is Fletcher but he is likely gone soon enough anyway due to age &.....particularly thinking of continuity......I'd rather replace him sooner so that the continuity can start quicker with the new guy(?). I don't see us wanting to simply replace existing guys with other guys of equal talent. I see us consciously down-grading at CB.....getting younger(better?) at MLB......hopefully improving at DE(if Kelsay goes).....& majorly improving at OG(& maybe TE/FB/#2WR). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 16, 2007 Author Share Posted February 16, 2007 eh, point taken on the re-signs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneonta Buffalo Fan Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 We need Kelsay on the fact that he and Denney are a pretty good 1,2 punch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 The question to me is simply who do you replace them with: NC- a very good player and the best CB we have on the team, but given the way we use CBs in our Cover 2 (release WRs to the safeties and the MLB after they leave the short zone) we can build a far better football team by spending the money he will get from the market on other positions. Between developing Youbouty and picking up a second tier vet CB as an FA, I think we can satisfy getting what we need from a CB to make the Cover 2 work. I think NC will make the Pro Bowl for his new team in the future if he is also allowed to return punts for them because he will prove to be a playmaker, but he simply is not worth it to us for what the market will pay him. Fletch- definitely on the wrong side of 30, but the #2 guy at MLB on our depth chart, DeGregorio seems in no way to be an answer. and the best MLB prospect we have on the roster is Crowell who is coming off an injury and even if he moves to MLB it leaves a large hole at OLB we need to fill with a quality starter. The FA pickings for MLBs looks fairly thin (though there are some very good OLBs like Briggs or Thomas if we move Crowell over). The draft crop of LBs also appears to be far weaker than the draftees at other positions with again an OLB prospect like Timmons or Polusny (sic) being rated by the pundits a few slots after our pick and the prospects for the best MLB Willis seeming to be dropping like a rock after he struggled with pass coverage in the Senior Bowl (often wrong pundit Mel Kiper has him at #30 but we can still trade down to get him if we want if he is wrong 5 spots one way, but he in trading up range for our second choice if he is 5 spots wrong the other way and neither spot bodes well for someone we envision as replacing F-B in the difficult Tampa 2 assignment we will give to a MLB. The price will be stiff and folks were pissed about him (though I think they would be better pissed at the braintrust as he simply seem to be playing where he was told to play) but as I do not see where we likely find a good replacement for him I would tag him if necessary. Kelsay- he is a good player I hope we resign, but given there seem to be a number of DEs on the market I would not mortgage the house to resign him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 The only thing that will salvage this off season for me will be a complete uniform change. Marv needs to ditch and burn those Roller Derby rags the team's been wearing the last five years. You need look no further than the banner atop TSW for the basic design. Oh yeah, and Marv should sign some new players too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 But if we lose both of them AND let Kelsay walk I will not feel good about being a fan of this franchise. Unless of course we bring in a BIG NAME DE to replace him. And where exactly will we get this "BIG NAME DE?" At the "Big Name DE Store?" We are going to franchise Fletcher, re-sign Kelsay (soon) to a big contract, lose Nate, and draft a 1st round corner under any and all conditions. They will probably restructure the contract of Schobel to keep him the highest paid DE. Wait and see. The Bills are in desperate need of Guards. Our best Guard is Gandy, and not only does he suck, he is a UFA (and I hope he leaves town). In this sense, Guard is a bigger need than corner that must be addressed. If Levy decides that a strong OL is important, there is every reason to believe that the Bills will be a playoff team if they stay reasonably healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Carriger MIGHT possibly be around in the second round for the defensive end position, but I'd try to keep Kelsay..and don't see any reason why we shouldn't re-sign him. I'd also try and keep Fletcher. Nate on the other hand is just going to win the lottery this time and I can't see overpaying (probably massive overpaying) to keep him. Youbooty and/or Thomas (re-sign) will just have to step up and we might take a flyer on a cb somewhere after the second round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 But if we lose both of them AND let Kelsay walk I will not feel good about being a fan of this franchise. Unless of course we bring in a BIG NAME DE to replace him. But between our cap-room and needing some continuity within the player personell AND the fact that we wont find anyone at his level any cheaper anyways... he better be a Bill next year. I thought our defense stunk last year. I do not care who they replace as long as they get better. Was Kelsey that good that you would miss him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stussy109 Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 But if we lose both of them AND let Kelsay walk I will not feel good about being a fan of this franchise. Unless of course we bring in a BIG NAME DE to replace him. But between our cap-room and needing some continuity within the player personell AND the fact that we wont find anyone at his level any cheaper anyways... he better be a Bill next year. Keep in mind we had one of the worst defenses in the league, so some changes need to be made. More importantly, we were terrible against the run, and usually the MLB is on the running back We also have a potential in hargrove, assuming he resigns, so maybe kelsay can walk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 And where exactly will we get this "BIG NAME DE?" At the "Big Name DE Store?" We are going to franchise Fletcher, re-sign Kelsay (soon) to a big contract, lose Nate, and draft a 1st round corner under any and all conditions. They will probably restructure the contract of Schobel to keep him the highest paid DE. Wait and see. The Bills are in desperate need of Guards. Our best Guard is Gandy, and not only does he suck, he is a UFA (and I hope he leaves town). In this sense, Guard is a bigger need than corner that must be addressed. If Levy decides that a strong OL is important, there is every reason to believe that the Bills will be a playoff team if they stay reasonably healthy. I think it is far more likely that they go with a guard in the 1st than with a CB as the skillsets necessary for a CB in the Cover 2 can be found without resorting to a #12 pick. In addition over the life of the contract if your CB is good, the market will give him far more of the team's cap than he is worth in our Cover 2. I think the #12 pick is likely about running and stopping the run and a DT and G ae the two lead possibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donahoeisgod Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Carriger MIGHT possibly be around in the second round for the defensive end position, but I'd try to keep Kelsay..and don't see any reason why we shouldn't re-sign him. I'd also try and keep Fletcher. Nate on the other hand is just going to win the lottery this time and I can't see overpaying (probably massive overpaying) to keep him. Youbooty and/or Thomas (re-sign) will just have to step up and we might take a flyer on a cb somewhere after the second round. I think Carriker is a likely first rounder for the Bills, if he is still there at #12....he might look pretty good as a 3-4 DE for the 49ers who pick 11th. I think his size and versatility as a 3rd down rush tackle make him intriguing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvermike Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Keep in mind we had one of the worst defenses in the league, so some changes need to be made. We did NOT have one of the worst defenses in the league last year. We gave up 19.4 points per game, 10th in the league. The run defense was terrible, no doubt, but we made it up in the passing game, where we placed 7th. Admittedly, some of that is from teams not getting into passing situations. It wasn't a dominant defense by any stretch, and it certainly wasn't good *enough*, but it wasn't terrible and it wasn't one of the worst. Add to that the fact that Whitner, Simpson, Youboty, Ellison, McCargo, and Williams are almost certain to improve after a full year in an pro system, Hargrove should pick it up as he gets used to being in Buffalo, and the team's defense will be pretty good. In any case, it's the offense that causes problems. 3rd worst in the league in yardage, one of only six teams to average less than 100 yards per game on the ground, and abysmal on 3rd downs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Kelsay was good but marv lined up all of our replacments last year, so im not owrried about losing anyone Hargrove for Kelsay Youboty for Clements Fletcher will be transitioned tag i beleive which gives us rights to him or We draft patrick willis Marv ahs a plan and i trust him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 We need Kelsay on the fact that he and Denney are a pretty good 1,2 punch. Kelsay had a very good coming out party last season.....However, I think the Bills will replace him with Hargrove and let Kelsay walk in the off season as he will cost too much money to re-sign. I doubt Kelsay re-signs at a contract similar to the one signed by Denney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 And where exactly will we get this "BIG NAME DE?" At the "Big Name DE Store?" Not that I'm wanting us to go for a FA DE....and....not that I place too much trust in SI.com but their top 20 FA list has 4 DEs in it. #4 Freeney-Colts #6 Grant-Saints #11 Kerney-Falcons #18 Smith-Bengals ....also, there are 4 DEs who may be considered to be top 15 potential in the draft. Gaines Adams Jamaal Anderson Adam Carriker Charles Johnson DE looks rather solid this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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