This is not what being a Bills fan is about

[Bill from NYC]

Thanks for making an unrelated, and unfortunately, lame response.  I especially like how you only highlight my negative response and omit the others.  Nice.

 

By the way, my Hoosier days are long gone.  Yet, Gary is to Indiana as NYC is to NY state.  It should be it's own state or at the least merge with Illinois.

 

Anyway, back on point and to remind you: (a) conversation was on NFL games (b) I never said any of the other states do not have crime, only the other states' / cities NFL stadiums are not like RWS.  © Basically, if the environment of RWS is reflective of the population to which the stadium exists, then WNY is in deep trouble.  It would be curious to argue otherwise.

 

Generalization? Somewhat, but remember Bill I was born and raised in WNY.  I know what I left and what I come back to every year.  Again, that is exactly why I left. 

 

Have you noticied the economy of WNY?  The political climate?  The converstations of Casino's vs No Casino's?  - downtown or where ever?  Speaking with some of my family and friends about those issues and others is downright depressing.  I know why they don't move, some can't - others could.  It is a love/hate thing I guess.

 

The overall ethos of WNY is very characteristic and somwhat unique.  No?

821846[/snapback]

 

I cannot compete with you in terms of time spent in WNY. I have been to the Ralph 13 straight years, and took my daughter on a different occasion to visit UB. My stays there were marked by the kindness extended to me by a whole lot of nice people. I would not be against moving up there, but the weather and family issues make it a tough sell for my wife.

 

As far as violence at games, it is everywhere. As one poster stated, it is surprising that there isn't more, even at college games. I think that to focus on WNY in terms of this problem is not at all reasonable.

 

Oh, and as far as comparing Gary, Ind. to NYC? Sorry, not even remotely close. Newark, NJ would have been a suitable comparison.

 

>>>The overall ethos of WNY is very characteristic and somwhat unique. No?<<<

 

I agree, and overall I like it. I also have a feeling that in the future, the economy of WNY will pick up (although I have no idea how). Nice people and good food are at least a start.

[Just Jack]

It looks to me like they are looking for a big payday. No witnesses. No arrests. No security or cops around (BS- cops are all over the place after a game). It doesn't come out until 9 days after the game. He could have been anywhere, got drunk and broke his hands. Probably happened at his local bar a couple days ago.

 

Wouldn't you think that he or his wife would have called 911 asap? Found a cop directing traffic or a security guard or gone to the administration office and reported what happened?  Gone to a hospital? Filed a police report? Took pictures right away? They didn't have a cell phone? Not enough common sense to get to a phone right after they got out of there and call 911 and document what happened? Nobody saw anything going down and it wasn't on here in the last 9 days? No, they left town, saw a Jeffrey Freedman commercial and called a Boston newspaper 9 days later. It all smells really bad to me.

821640[/snapback]

And according to this article he waited 5 days before having surgery. I wouldn't have waited more than a day if his injuries were so severe.

I also wonder what lot was he in? Some of the private lots also have port-a-potties. That could explain the lack of police if it was not on a stadium lot.

One plus about all this, is maybe it'll cut down on the number of Pats fans coming to next years game.

[BuffaloTendencies]

I have been to several Bills-Pats games at the Ralph, and was very surprised at the conduct of the Pats fans. Running at the mouth, trying to start fights. Its one thing to do that at your own place, but don't run your mouth on the road. I think the clown deserved what he got. He can probably thank some of the other Pats fans there.

[MDH]

My stays there were marked by the kindness extended to me by a whole lot of nice people.

821860[/snapback]

 

Okay, we get it, your time at RWS has been marked by kindness.

 

Question though; do you open your eyes and see the security guards running around madly to the countless fights in the stands? Even on the trips where I haven't been bothered (which has been just about all of them) I'm still aware of the inordinate amount of violence that happens in the stands while the game is happening.

 

I’ve been to three games at the Meadowlands, one in Foxboro, two in Atlanta and one in Indianapolis and the other poster is right, the atmosphere is NOTHING like it is at the Ralph (which, for the record, is both a good and a bad thing). The Bills fans tend to be much more passionate about their team but this has some really sad consequences to go along with the great vibe the stadium has when the Bills are winning. Those consequences are a lot more violence than I’ve seen in other stadiums.

 

I’d guess that the cause of that violence is the great tailgating in Buffalo that doesn’t exist in these other cities I’ve been to. The fans aren’t as liquored up before the game in other cities which likely is the reason for fewer incidents (notice I said “fewer incidents” not “no incidents”).

[aussiew]

Really? How many Bills games have you attended? Because I almost can't think of a time when I HAVEN'T seen a fight or two.

 

Since 1989, including pre-season, play-off games and 1 Super Bowl....the count is 56 home games and 19 away games.

 

 

ps but I'm only referring to altercations that take place where I can actually see them.

[ACor58]

I have been to several Bills-Pats games at the Ralph, and was very surprised at the conduct of the Pats fans. Running at the mouth, trying to start fights. Its one thing to do that at your own place, but don't run your mouth on the road.  I think the clown deserved what he got. He can probably thank some of the other Pats fans there.

821879[/snapback]

 

They are M@ssholes. All of them.

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

They could settle this very quickly by requesting the guy take a polygraph test. If he happens to agree to it, ask him about the events laid out in the story one by one. If he refuses you know he is lying. Of course his slimy lawyer would never allow this to occur, because there is obvious embelishment on the part of the poor victims who now want to sue the Bills organization. I have seen many fights where the loser goes from a willing participant to a poor victim shortly after the fight and presses charges or sues. Both sides should probably be punished and charged with a crime.

 

I wonder how much of a cut the journalist and photographer get if the guy wins his lawsuit? That church picture with the sad posed looks is priceless!

[Bill from NYC]

I’ve been to three games at the Meadowlands, one in Foxboro, two in Atlanta and one in Indianapolis and the other poster is right, the atmosphere is NOTHING like it is at the Ralph (which, for the record, is both a good and a bad thing).  The Bills fans tend to be much more passionate about their team but this has some really sad consequences to go along with the great vibe the stadium has when the Bills are winning.  Those consequences are a lot more violence than I’ve seen in other stadiums. 

821895[/snapback]

 

I have been to more than 3 games at the Meadowlands, but admittedly none for the last 5 or more years. Yes, I witnessed as many fights that I have seen at RWS, perhaps more. I was at the famous "Pumpkin Game," at which there were hundreds of fights, women were terrorized, seats were set on fire, dozens of arrests, and for good measure, Morgana stripped and ran onto the field. Drinking rules were changed as a result of that game.

 

If you have seen more violence at RWS, fine. I believe you. Still, I love the place. I guess I am not emotional enough to get to bent out of shape about this incident.

[IndyMark]

I agree, and overall I like it. I also have a feeling that in the future, the economy of WNY will pick up (although I have no idea how). Nice people and good food are at least a start.

821860[/snapback]

 

......let's hope so; seriously, it would be great for WNY to emerge into a progressive region that is not only proud of what is has been, but proud of what it is becoming. Plus, less pessimistice would be helpful.

 

Good food and nice people are always solid foundations; especially the people part.

[The Senator]

Okay, we get it, your time at RWS has been marked by kindness. 

 

Question though; do you open your eyes and see the security guards running around madly to the countless fights in the stands?  Even on the trips where I haven't been bothered (which has been just about all of them) I'm still aware of the inordinate amount of violence that happens in the stands while the game is happening. 

 

I’ve been to three games at the Meadowlands, one in Foxboro, two in Atlanta and one in Indianapolis and the other poster is right, the atmosphere is NOTHING like it is at the Ralph (which, for the record, is both a good and a bad thing).  The Bills fans tend to be much more passionate about their team but this has some really sad consequences to go along with the great vibe the stadium has when the Bills are winning.  Those consequences are a lot more violence than I’ve seen in other stadiums. 

 

I’d guess that the cause of that violence is the great tailgating in Buffalo that doesn’t exist in these other cities I’ve been to.  The fans aren’t as liquored up before the game in other cities which likely is the reason for fewer incidents (notice I said “fewer incidents” not “no incidents”).

821895[/snapback]

I guess I'd have to 'take issue' with you on Foxboro, where I had season tix for 4 years ('85-88). - it's every bit as hostile as any stadium you can name, and I too have been to Bills games at the Meadowlands, Oakland Coliseum, LA Coliseum, and many others - and always wearing at least some Bills gear.

 

I know what you mean about the countless fights at The Ralph, particuarly in the upper deck and end zones - the security team seems to running non-stop to break up altercations - but have you ever been to a Patriots-NY Giants game in Foxboro? For pure violence and drunken hostility, it rivals anything you've ever seen at RWS or anywhere else, and it's really pretty bad no matter who the opposing team is. When I go to Foxboro for a Bills road game, I no longer wear the Bills colors for fear of altercation.

 

So knowing what I know about the drunken, a--hole New England fans, I'm just not buyin' this guy's story.

[Gordio]

I say the fugger probably got what was coming to him.

 

If we cant beat them on the field, we might as well beat the snot out of them in the parking lot.

[pBills]

I don't think the Pats fan was an angel in anyway. However, people can party it up in the parking lots before and after... that's fine. During the games.. I think there should be no alcohol. Period. Like every states, to many fights, to many people that can't hold their alcohol.

 

Enough is enough. God knows I wouldn't want to bring my kids to a game.

[MDH]

I guess I'd have to 'take issue' with you on Foxboro, where I had season tix for 4 years ('85-88). - it's every bit as hostile as any stadium you can name, and I too have been to Bills games at the Meadowlands, Oakland Coliseum, LA Coliseum, and many others - and always wearing at least some Bills gear.

 

821969[/snapback]

 

Well, my sample set of Foxboro is admittedly very small, as it’s only one game. It was also a long time ago, in 1991. The stands were only about half full and my lasting impression of the game (which the Bills somehow lost to the Hugh Millen led Pats) was that my a** would never unfreeze after spending 3 hours on a metal bench in the middle of winter. My second lasting impression was that I couldn’t believe an NFL team actually played in that high school stadium. As for violence I don't recall seeing a single altercation, but I did see some really bad football.

[apuszczalowski]

I don't think the Pats fan was an angel in anyway.  However, people can party it up in the parking lots before and after... that's fine.  During the games.. I think there should be no alcohol.  Period.  Like every states, to many fights, to many people that can't hold their alcohol.

822011[/snapback]

Actually, I think it should be the other way around, It is easier to monitor the alcohol consummed from fans in the Stadium then it is in the Lots. People will just drink more before the game.

 

You don't hear about these kind of fights in a Baseball game or Hockey game (and in the NBA its usually only player vs fan fights,lol) Those are all sports that serve alcohol during the game, and are not known for tailgating with alcohol

[The Senator]

Actually, I think it should be the other way around, It is easier to monitor the alcohol consummed from fans in the Stadium then it is in the Lots. People will just drink more before the game.

 

You don't hear about these kind of fights in a Baseball game or Hockey game (and in the NBA its usually only player vs fan fights,lol) Those are all sports that serve alcohol during the game, and are not known for tailgating with alcohol

822023[/snapback]

Au contraire, 'ski.

 

Ever been to the second half of a double header at Fenway - especially against the Yankees? There is no tailgating, 'cause you're in an urban neighborhood with no lots, and alcohol in the stadium is very strictly controlled - everyone is proofed, 2 beers/person purchase limit (and they are lite beers), and sales are cut off after the seventh inning. Eighteen straight innings of drinking - make it in September, when all the BU kids (many from NYC and many with bleacher seats) are back at school just a couple blocks away and both teams are fighting for the AL East - and oh boy, what a recipe for some of the bloodiest drunken fistfights you can imagine. Of course, those are 'ideal conditions' - I've seen plenty of violence at Fenway in far less volatile settings.

 

Then again, I'm talkin' about New England here, and we've already established that New England fan = a--hole.

 

Now as for da hockey and fan altercations, well one guy comes to mind instantly...

 

Tie Domi

[The Avenger]

I saw a fight almost get really ugly at the Jets game this year (the opener). Bunch of seriously drunk fans ripping on a kid in a Jets jersey and at first it was just kind of fun back and forth stuff. As always, someone who has had WAY too much to drink suddenly starts to take things all seriously and starts getting physical. Unfortunately, said drunk was surrounded by his drunk buddies and they all start going after this kid. Some Bills fans try and tell everyone to simmer down, but of course the drunks are now not having any of that. Fortunately, some of the parking lot attendants (the guys with the flags telling you where to park) stepped in and broke it up, even though I don't think they're paid to be security (I was impressed that they stepped in, particularly because they were pretty much just kids themselves).

 

This stuff happens everywhere, even in Buffalo. Add enough alcohol and an "us vs. them" situation where a mob mentality can flourish and you get some really ugly results.

[Dan]

Living in RI for 7 years I went to several events at Foxboro and Fenway. I've always considered those some of the roughest crowds ever. Never once was there not mutlple fights for one stupid reason or another. Even for concerts. By far the worst crowds I've seen at games or concerts. For reference, I've seen games (of various kinds) in Chicago, Baltimore, Nashville, New Orleans, Memphis, St. Louis. Granted not alot of games. And, unfortunately, no games at Rich Stadium. (perhaps someday)

 

All this however, still doesn't excuse the fact that this behavior is wrong and is too often accepted. Half the posts here, still say "they got what they deserved" or something to that effect. I find that disheartening.

 

All I can say is next time we want to talk about "classless" fans in Miami or NE or anywhere else, I suggest a long look in the mirror to make sure we're not talking about ourselves as well.

[apuszczalowski]

Au contraire, 'ski.

 

Ever been to the second half of a double header at Fenway - especially against the Yankees?  There is no tailgating, 'cause you're in an urban neighborhood with no lots, and alcohol in the stadium is very strictly controlled - everyone is proofed, 2 beers/person purchase limit (and they are lite beers), and sales are cut off after the seventh inning.  Eighteen straight innings of drinking - make it in September, when all the BU kids (many from NYC and many with bleacher seats) are back at school just a couple blocks away and both teams are fighting for the AL East - and oh boy, what a recipe for some of the bloodiest drunken fistfights you can imagine.  Of course, those are 'ideal conditions' - I've seen plenty of violence at Fenway in far less volatile settings.

822123[/snapback]

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, and your description is not a common occurance (how many time a year do the sox play a double header against the yankees) The fighting there doesn't occur just because of drinking (although that could be a bit of a catalyst of it) but the bitter rivalry of the 2 teams. Its rare to see a fight just break out in the stands of a baseball game

[Dan]

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, and your description is not a common occurance (how many time a year do the sox play a double header against the yankees) The fighting there doesn't occur just because of drinking (although that could be a bit of a catalyst of it) but the bitter rivalry of the 2 teams. Its rare to see a fight just break out in the stands of a baseball game

822144[/snapback]

 

See my post above... I've seen several games at Fenway. None were against the Yankees and all I witnessed multiple fights.

[The Senator]

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, and your description is not a common occurance (how many time a year do the sox play a double header against the yankees) The fighting there doesn't occur just because of drinking (although that could be a bit of a catalyst of it) but the bitter rivalry of the 2 teams. Its rare to see a fight just break out in the stands of a baseball game

822144[/snapback]

Actually, I don't think they play double headers against the Yankees anymore - for just the situation I described. And if they have to reschedule a game due to an early season rainout, they usually play one in the early afternoon, clear the ballpark, and play the second game as an evening game. (Of course, that doesn't cut down on drunken violence - it just helps the neighborhood bar business!)

 

But I had season tix there for a couple of years and believe me, there were plenty of fights, especially in the cheap seats, and it didn't matter if they were playing the Yankees or another team.

 

Like I said, it's New England, and they're a--holes. Must be something in the water up there.