The Jury is in

[Dr. Trooth]

Stone cold reality... The Bills O is a work in progress and it's going to take another two seasons. This is not a knock on the team. They are what they are, and as fans, we are just going to have to ackowledge it and live with it for a bit.. I'm just bringing it like I see it and believe it to be... So, don't expect a sugar coated analysis.

 

1) McGahee is not a back that can take a team to a championship. He's got nothing in terms of speed or elusiveness and his power isn't even adequate. A < than 4 yds. per carry avg. after a couple of seasons as a starter speaks volumes, and shows me nothing except that he's oridnary... and maybe not even as good as Corell Buckhalter (who is a waste of a roster spot in my opinion).

 

2) Lee Evans is an outstanding #2 receiver, and he proved that when Moulds was the #1. But, that's as good as he's going to get... an uper echelon #2 (one notch above "Reggie Waynville'). He's no Tory Holt, or even Isaac Bruce, Hines Ward, or Marvin Harrison and never will be. And he sure as hell ain't going to make anyone forget Andre Reed.

 

3) Don't expect miracles from the receiving corps. They're playing with one #2 receiver and a bunch of #3's, rating from average on down.

 

4) JP takes a step forward and two steps backward. I don't think anyone can characterize him as a bust just yet. Afterall, he's had to endure two season under mularkey and probably developed some bad habits that will take time to break. He basically has to re-learn some of the nuances of the QB position as a result. I will say he's young and has a lot to learn. At the end of the season though, it will be clear as to where he's at with his career. Even taking a drubbing against the Bears is something a young QB has to go through and come out of with a few lessons learned.

 

5) The offensive line is not a dominating line. That's not to say it's horrendous. It isn't. This line is very serviceable and will get better. However, there's only so far this offensive line can take this team... and it ain't championship caliber. It will need some new faces over the next two seasons. We can only hope that players like Mertz, Pennington, and Butler develop, because the Bills will need that sort of combination of athletcism and size to get to the next level.

 

The bottom line is this... The Bills don't have a RB that strikes fear in anyone. I've never seen the likes of a Bills running back so hyped for so little in return, in terms of productivity on the field. Willis will be playing for a contract next year... His agent Rosenhoser is the kind of agent that overstates his clients value by 10 times reality. Willis may likely hold out... I hope he does... and the Bills will move on. The Bills basically need to go into the draft and/or free agency looking for a new starting RB and #1 type receiver. The RB upgrade is, without question, imperitive. Remember when the Bills drafted Ronnie Harmon at #1? He was hardly a back that could get you to the big game, let alone win it. When Jimbo said we need a RB that will 'hit the hole', he was dead on correct. Thermal's arrival totally transformed that offense. He was a back that was very good at running, blocking, and receiving. McGahee is not very good at any of those three and I've got a strong feeling the Bills know that and will address it in the offseason.

 

The defense still needs help up the middle, and at both ends. After this season, both Takeo and London will be on the wrong side of 30. So, there will need to be an infusion of more talent in the front 7 as well as CB, if, and when Clements departs.

 

Remember... Not a criticism or slam of the Bills. Just the way it is... the stone cold trooth. It'll take some time, but I feel a lot more comfortable that the Bills are on the right track with the current regime than with the last one.

[Mikie2times]

Stone cold reality... The Bills O is a work in progress and it's going to take another two seasons.  This is not a knock on the team.  They are what they are, and as fans, we are just going to have to ackowledge it and live with it for a bit..  I'm just bringing it like I see it and believe it to be... So, don't expect a sugar coated analysis.

 

1) McGahee is not a back that can take a team to a championship.  He's got nothing in terms of speed or elusiveness and his power isn't even adequate.  A < than 4 yds. per carry avg. after a couple of seasons as a starter speaks volumes, and shows me nothing except that he's oridnary... and maybe not even as good as Corell Buckhalter (who is a waste of a roster spot in my opinion).

 

2) Lee Evans is an outstanding #2 receiver, and he proved that when Moulds was the #1.  But, that's as good as he's going to get... an uper echelon #2 (one notch above "Reggie Waynville').  He's no Tory Holt, or even Isaac Bruce, Hines Ward, or Marvin Harrison and never will be.  And he sure as hell ain't going to make anyone forget Andre Reed.

 

3) Don't expect miracles from the receiving corps.  They're playing with one #2 receiver and a bunch of #3's, rating from average on down.

 

4) JP takes a step forward and two steps backward.  I don't think anyone can characterize him as a bust just yet. Afterall, he's had to endure two season under mularkey and probably developed some bad habits that will take time to break.  He basically has to re-learn some of the nuances of the QB position as a result.  I will say he's young and has a lot to learn.  At the end of the season though, it will be clear as to where he's at with his career.  Even taking a drubbing against the Bears is something a young QB has to go through and come out of with a few lessons learned.

 

5) The offensive line is not a dominating line.  That's not to say it's horrendous.  It isn't.  This line is very serviceable and will get better.  However, there's only so far this offensive line can take this team... and it ain't championship caliber.  It will need some new faces over the next two seasons.  We can only hope that players like Mertz, Pennington, and Butler develop, because the Bills will need that sort of combination of athletcism and size to get to the next level. 

800209[/snapback]

1) He's not top 5 but he's probably top 10, and certainly top 15. Your spoiled if thats how you view Willis.

 

2) Evans is at week 5 starting as a one. He's flirting with 100 yards on a weekly basis. How can you be so sure about him being just a 2 after being more productive then Moulds at the same point in his career?

 

3) See 2, I agree with the rest being 3's.

 

4) Agree. We will know about him by the end of the year. Let’s see how he comes out Sunday.

 

5) Agree. Seems like every year we have just enough talent for the Front office to justify only signing a LG. Gandy will be a FA, Villerial could retire, and Reyes and Flower could be viewed as stop gap players. It's ok to keep a few but we could be in position for an obvious line makeover if some of these guys go. We have the money, lets do it right this time.

[pBills]

Stone cold reality... The Bills O is a work in progress and it's going to take another two seasons.  This is not a knock on the team.  They are what they are, and as fans, we are just going to have to ackowledge it and live with it for a bit..  I'm just bringing it like I see it and believe it to be... So, don't expect a sugar coated analysis.

 

1) McGahee is not a back that can take a team to a championship.  He's got nothing in terms of speed or elusiveness and his power isn't even adequate.  A < than 4 yds. per carry avg. after a couple of seasons as a starter speaks volumes, and shows me nothing except that he's oridnary... and maybe not even as good as Corell Buckhalter (who is a waste of a roster spot in my opinion).

 

2) Lee Evans is an outstanding #2 receiver, and he proved that when Moulds was the #1.  But, that's as good as he's going to get... an uper echelon #2 (one notch above "Reggie Waynville').  He's no Tory Holt, or even Isaac Bruce, Hines Ward, or Marvin Harrison and never will be.  And he sure as hell ain't going to make anyone forget Andre Reed.

 

3) Don't expect miracles from the receiving corps.  They're playing with one #2 receiver and a bunch of #3's, rating from average on down.

 

4) JP takes a step forward and two steps backward.  I don't think anyone can characterize him as a bust just yet. Afterall, he's had to endure two season under mularkey and probably developed some bad habits that will take time to break.  He basically has to re-learn some of the nuances of the QB position as a result.  I will say he's young and has a lot to learn.  At the end of the season though, it will be clear as to where he's at with his career.  Even taking a drubbing against the Bears is something a young QB has to go through and come out of with a few lessons learned.

 

5) The offensive line is not a dominating line.  That's not to say it's horrendous.  It isn't.  This line is very serviceable and will get better.  However, there's only so far this offensive line can take this team... and it ain't championship caliber.  It will need some new faces over the next two seasons.  We can only hope that players like Mertz, Pennington, and Butler develop, because the Bills will need that sort of combination of athletcism and size to get to the next level. 

 

The bottom line is this... The Bills don't have a RB that strikes fear in anyone.  I've never seen the likes of a Bills running back so hyped for so little in return, in terms of productivity on the field. Willis will be playing for a contract next year... His agent Rosenhoser is the kind of agent that overstates his clients value by 10 times reality.  Willis may likely hold out... I hope he does... and the Bills will move on.  The Bills basically need to go into the draft and/or free agency looking for a new starting RB and #1 type receiver.  The RB upgrade is, without question,  imperitive.  Remember when the Bills drafted Ronnie Harmon at #1?  He was hardly a back that could get you to the big game, let alone win it.  When Jimbo said we need a RB that will 'hit the hole', he was dead on correct.  Thermal's arrival totally transformed that offense.  He was a back that was very good at running, blocking, and receiving.  McGahee is not very good at any of those three and I've got a strong feeling the Bills know that and will address it in the offseason.

 

The defense still needs help up the middle, and at both ends.  After this season, both Takeo and London will be on the wrong side of 30.  So, there will need to be an infusion of more talent in the front 7 as well as CB, if, and when Clements departs.

 

Remember... Not a criticism or slam of the Bills.  Just the way it is... the stone cold trooth.  It'll take some time, but I feel a lot more comfortable that the Bills are on the right track with the current regime than with the last one.

800209[/snapback]

 

 

As usual a typical "fan" going after productive players on the team. I'll give you the O-line and d-lines need to improve. However, I guess Willis (going in the last game) being number one overall in the NFL isn't good enough.

 

Evans like another poster has stated has been flirting with over 100 yards pretty much every week. JP has shown improvement from last year. What do you expect? Him not to tak any set backs? He should have been played this much lat year... he wasn't, so he (unfortunately) is still in the learning phase. So let's keep the stone cold TRUTH.

[BuffOrange]

Tooth,

Please provide a list of RB's than can win a championship.

Also, a list of #1 WR's.

Thanks

[SACTOBILLSFAN]

You're dead on about McGahee and the defense, and the rest of your opinions i simply don't agree with. Lee Evans has shown me that he is a very capable WR and will develop into a solid number 1 threat. His only drawback is he is small and not a real red zone threat yet, but many smaller WRs are great in the redzone (marvin harrison).

 

To say that its going to take two years to grasp this offense is ridiculous. You just threw out an arbitrary number of years and thats about all you did, as you don't participate in said offense. Offenses can absolutely take huge steps forward at anytime a la Phil Rivers last night. Its like an offensive epiphany. It may take time but to say its going to take 2 years and thats the "trooth" is flat out ridiculous.

 

If the O-line keeps pass protecting like they did last week then it could easily turn around sooner rather than later. However, the play calling must get better and more condusive to growth. When the Bills get a lead the offense goes into a shell like a Marty Schottenheimer team and they do not attempt to put teams away. If the coaches allow the offense to make play all game their confidence will grow in leaps and bounds.

 

But yes, McGahee is all hype with few results. Yeah his YPC was ok against Chicago, but before they absolutely buried the Bills it was in the 1.5 range, and like i've said in earlier posts he cannot be relied upon in short yardage situations, because he doesn't drive the pile like he does when he's gaining extra yardage on other plays. I don't know why this is, but to me its been especially apparent this year.

 

Hopefully this team is on the right track with Dick and Co, but who am I to judge since I am a biased fan (short for fanatic) of the Buffalo Bills.

[VABills]

 

2) Evans is at week 5 starting as a one. He's flirting with 100 yards on a weekly basis. How can you be so sure about him being just a 2 after being more productive then Moulds at the same point in his career?

800229[/snapback]

 

 

NE 2 25

Mia 2 19

NYJ 8 107

Min 7 90

Chi 9 94

 

You'll have to excuse me but flirting with it only 60% of the time is not a weekly basis.

[Dr. Trooth]

However, I guess Willis (going in the last game) being number one overall in the NFL isn't good enough.

 

Are you serious? After 4 games...You'd hitch your wagon to McGahee. For Christ

s sake, he's in company with Frank Gore and Chester Taylor. WHO? And, why exclude the Bears game... he did play. You're making excuses for him. The fact is he has a 3.9 yd. per carry average for his career. For an NFL back, that's average. Willis is number one in the NFL in two categories... running his yap and whiffing on blitz pick ups.

 

Remove yourself from being a Bills fan for just a moment. Forget how much $$$ you blew on that Mcgahee jersey. For this question you must have no allegiance to any team... for just this question. You are simply a football aficianado. Ask yourself this question, honestly...If you had a choice of backs for your team, and let's say your team is the Kokomo Kangeroos... a new NFL franchise and you need a RB. Between Laurence Maroney and Willis McGahee, who would you take? The back who can take it to the house from anywhere on the field and consistently get you yardage on every play or McGahee. McGahee has never taken the seed longer than 40 yards and never taken a pass for more than 20. Maroney's only had 84 touches and he's electrifying. McGahee's had 732 touches and I don't know of any fan that get's out of his seat when McGahee touches the football. I've watched the bills for a long long time... and I'll bet a hell of a lot longer than you have. I've seen backs like Cookie Gilchrest, OJ Simpson, Joe Cribbs, and Thurman Thomas run the football for the Bills. Let me tell you this...in no way, shape or form is McGahee in any of those RBs class. If he were on any of those Bills teams with those guys, he'd be lucky to be the number two back on the team... and in the case of Bills of the 90's, he clearly wouldn't have been able to beat out Kenneth Davis for #2, let alone Thermal for the #1. Now there's some perspective!

[makbeer]

Dr. Trooth 

Joined: 1-May 06

 

Now there's some perspective. You're even more of a newb here than I am.

 

Give it a rest. Willis busted a couple huge runs over his career that came back with penalties. He had a 60+ yarder in the preseason. The guy has it to be a top 5 NFL back. Our line is a terrible run blocking line. They don't have the power to move the pile or create proper holes. Willis gets his yards the hard way, every game.

 

Not to mention, his blitz pickups have been amazing since he whiffed that one. And no one was harder on Willis after whiffing that big blitz pickup than he was on himself. The guy stood up and took responsibility in the media for !@#$ing up.

[Arkady Renko]

It's like the Black Bear and Pyrite Gal had a love child.

[MartyBall4Buffalo]

Are you serious?  After 4 games...You'd hitch your wagon to McGahee.  For Christ

s sake, he's in company with Frank Gore and Chester Taylor.  WHO?  And, why exclude the Bears game... he did play.  You're making excuses for him.  The fact is he has a 3.9 yd. per carry average for his career.  For an NFL back, that's average.  Willis is number one in the NFL in two categories... running his yap and whiffing on blitz pick ups.

 

800295[/snapback]

 

 

Year Team G GS Att Yds Avg Lg TD 20+ 1st

 

2006 Buffalo Bills 5 5 113 439 3.9 32 1 1 21 - Willis McGahee

 

2006 Kansas City Chiefs 4 4 90 331 3.7 28 2 2 15 - Larry Johnson

 

2006 San Diego Chargers 4 4 89 336 3.8 58 3 2 13 - Ladanian Tomlinson

 

 

LT is now in his 3rd season in his career which he's averaging under 4 yards per carry. Last years phenom LJ is averaging only 3.7ypc. Seems he can't make yards without having one of the best olines in the league.

 

Laurence Maroney vs Miami

 

18 38 0 11

 

Willis vs Miami

 

25 91 0 15

 

Maroney vs the jets

 

L. Maroney 16 65 1 14

 

Willis vs the jets

 

26 150 0 32

 

 

I used similar games. Willis hasn't had the luxury of facing the bengals run defense which is one of the worst in the league. Maroney is a nice rb I take nothing away from him. He also has the benefit of having tom brady at qb, a good run blocking offensive line in having another good rb to split carries with. Willis has JP Losman and a line featuring mike gandy and a converted te playing rt.

 

You do need talent around you. To rag on Mcgahee cause he's not Thurman or OJ is down right retarded. It would be the equivalent of holding JP's performance up to that of Jim Kelly. Or Lee Evans to that of Andre Reed. McGahee is a damn good back. Not the best in the league but a top 10-12 without a doubt. You don't need a home run hitting rb to have a more then effective run game.

 

A Big boost to the run game would be to find a rb to come off the bench who can get that big run but keeping mcgahee around to wear down defenses. A Luxury teams like ne/denver/atlanta/new orleans/sd and some other teams have and we don't at this time. Hopefully eventually we will. In todays nfl its hard to get by with just one good back.

 

P.S. Frank gore Who? Pay attention to football man frank gore was considered one of the top rb prospects in the nation before blowing out his knees at The U. He's just now getting back to that level. You'll hear plenty about Frank Gore in the coming years.

[Coach Tuesday]

The internet truly is the Idiot's Podium.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

But yes, McGahee is all hype with few results.  Yeah his YPC was ok against Chicago, but before they absolutely buried the Bills it was in the 1.5 range,800264[/snapback]

If you think this isn't explained by our offensive line play you're crazy. They gave McGahee NO room and NO lanes Sunday, especially when the game was close.

[TigerJ]

I will agree that the Bills' offense is a work in progress. Most of the rest of your points, I dispute Trooth. I believe JP Losman can be a successfull QB. I think McGahee is a solid RB, though I don't sense any real commitment to the team that will keep him in Buffalo one second longer than the expiration date on his contract. I think the receiving corps can be good. I think they got intimidated by the Bears and dropped a lot of passes that another time they would have caught. I agree the offensive line is not dominating. They need more depth and could still stand a couple upgrades when the Bills have a chance to make them, but time together under McNally will help too. Some of the best lines in the league got that way because they had stability over several years. I also agree that there is room for upgrades on the defensive line.

 

My biggest disagreement is over time frame. I think the Bills could plug enough holes and make enough progress that they will be a real force in the AFC next season and will likely make the playoffs.

[Dibs]

Stone cold reality... The Bills O is a work in progress and it's going to take another two seasons.  This is not a knock on the team.  They are what they are, and as fans, we are just going to have to ackowledge it and live with it for a bit..  I'm just bringing it like I see it and believe it to be... So, don't expect a sugar coated analysis.

 

1) McGahee is not a back that can take a team to a championship.  He's got nothing in terms of speed or elusiveness and his power isn't even adequate.  A < than 4 yds. per carry avg. after a couple of seasons as a starter speaks volumes, and shows me nothing except that he's oridnary... and maybe not even as good as Corell Buckhalter (who is a waste of a roster spot in my opinion).

 

2) Lee Evans is an outstanding #2 receiver, and he proved that when Moulds was the #1.  But, that's as good as he's going to get... an uper echelon #2 (one notch above "Reggie Waynville').  He's no Tory Holt, or even Isaac Bruce, Hines Ward, or Marvin Harrison and never will be.  And he sure as hell ain't going to make anyone forget Andre Reed.

 

3) Don't expect miracles from the receiving corps.  They're playing with one #2 receiver and a bunch of #3's, rating from average on down.

 

4) JP takes a step forward and two steps backward.  I don't think anyone can characterize him as a bust just yet. Afterall, he's had to endure two season under mularkey and probably developed some bad habits that will take time to break.  He basically has to re-learn some of the nuances of the QB position as a result.  I will say he's young and has a lot to learn.  At the end of the season though, it will be clear as to where he's at with his career.  Even taking a drubbing against the Bears is something a young QB has to go through and come out of with a few lessons learned.

 

5) The offensive line is not a dominating line.  That's not to say it's horrendous.  It isn't.  This line is very serviceable and will get better.  However, there's only so far this offensive line can take this team... and it ain't championship caliber.  It will need some new faces over the next two seasons.  We can only hope that players like Mertz, Pennington, and Butler develop, because the Bills will need that sort of combination of athletcism and size to get to the next level. 

 

The bottom line is this... The Bills don't have a RB that strikes fear in anyone.  I've never seen the likes of a Bills running back so hyped for so little in return, in terms of productivity on the field. Willis will be playing for a contract next year... His agent Rosenhoser is the kind of agent that overstates his clients value by 10 times reality.  Willis may likely hold out... I hope he does... and the Bills will move on.  The Bills basically need to go into the draft and/or free agency looking for a new starting RB and #1 type receiver.  The RB upgrade is, without question,  imperitive.  Remember when the Bills drafted Ronnie Harmon at #1?  He was hardly a back that could get you to the big game, let alone win it.  When Jimbo said we need a RB that will 'hit the hole', he was dead on correct.  Thermal's arrival totally transformed that offense.  He was a back that was very good at running, blocking, and receiving.  McGahee is not very good at any of those three and I've got a strong feeling the Bills know that and will address it in the offseason.

 

The defense still needs help up the middle, and at both ends.  After this season, both Takeo and London will be on the wrong side of 30.  So, there will need to be an infusion of more talent in the front 7 as well as CB, if, and when Clements departs.

 

Remember... Not a criticism or slam of the Bills.  Just the way it is... the stone cold trooth.  It'll take some time, but I feel a lot more comfortable that the Bills are on the right track with the current regime than with the last one.

800209[/snapback]

We really don't have the appropriate smileys for the job required sometimes.

[crazyDingo]

It begins and ends with the grunts in the trenches. Any great offensive line will result in a great RB. A mediocre OL means a hot and cold running game.

[Pyrite Gal]

Stone cold reality... The Bills O is a work in progress and it's going to take another two seasons.  This is not a knock on the team.  They are what they are, and as fans, we are just going to have to ackowledge it and live with it for a bit..  I'm just bringing it like I see it and believe it to be... So, don't expect a sugar coated analysis.

 

1) McGahee is not a back that can take a team to a championship.  He's got nothing in terms of speed or elusiveness and his power isn't even adequate.  A < than 4 yds. per carry avg. after a couple of seasons as a starter speaks volumes, and shows me nothing except that he's oridnary... and maybe not even as good as Corell Buckhalter (who is a waste of a roster spot in my opinion).

 

2) Lee Evans is an outstanding #2 receiver, and he proved that when Moulds was the #1.  But, that's as good as he's going to get... an uper echelon #2 (one notch above "Reggie Waynville').  He's no Tory Holt, or even Isaac Bruce, Hines Ward, or Marvin Harrison and never will be.  And he sure as hell ain't going to make anyone forget Andre Reed.

 

3) Don't expect miracles from the receiving corps.  They're playing with one #2 receiver and a bunch of #3's, rating from average on down.

 

4) JP takes a step forward and two steps backward.  I don't think anyone can characterize him as a bust just yet. Afterall, he's had to endure two season under mularkey and probably developed some bad habits that will take time to break.  He basically has to re-learn some of the nuances of the QB position as a result.  I will say he's young and has a lot to learn.  At the end of the season though, it will be clear as to where he's at with his career.  Even taking a drubbing against the Bears is something a young QB has to go through and come out of with a few lessons learned.

 

5) The offensive line is not a dominating line.  That's not to say it's horrendous.  It isn't.  This line is very serviceable and will get better.  However, there's only so far this offensive line can take this team... and it ain't championship caliber.  It will need some new faces over the next two seasons.  We can only hope that players like Mertz, Pennington, and Butler develop, because the Bills will need that sort of combination of athletcism and size to get to the next level. 

 

The bottom line is this... The Bills don't have a RB that strikes fear in anyone.  I've never seen the likes of a Bills running back so hyped for so little in return, in terms of productivity on the field. Willis will be playing for a contract next year... His agent Rosenhoser is the kind of agent that overstates his clients value by 10 times reality.  Willis may likely hold out... I hope he does... and the Bills will move on.  The Bills basically need to go into the draft and/or free agency looking for a new starting RB and #1 type receiver.  The RB upgrade is, without question,  imperitive.  Remember when the Bills drafted Ronnie Harmon at #1?  He was hardly a back that could get you to the big game, let alone win it.  When Jimbo said we need a RB that will 'hit the hole', he was dead on correct.  Thermal's arrival totally transformed that offense.  He was a back that was very good at running, blocking, and receiving.  McGahee is not very good at any of those three and I've got a strong feeling the Bills know that and will address it in the offseason.

 

The defense still needs help up the middle, and at both ends.  After this season, both Takeo and London will be on the wrong side of 30.  So, there will need to be an infusion of more talent in the front 7 as well as CB, if, and when Clements departs.

 

Remember... Not a criticism or slam of the Bills.  Just the way it is... the stone cold trooth.  It'll take some time, but I feel a lot more comfortable that the Bills are on the right track with the current regime than with the last one.

800209[/snapback]

 

The comment that there is not enough time or smilies to do justice to these over top weird comments are true.

 

1. Willis- feel free to add into an assessment the Chicago performance because even with it he still is easily the #3 player for rushing yards this year. While it should not be taken as the total measure for RB greatness, it would be tons more senseless to totally ignore or disregard this as a factor. Even in the Chicago game folks who are not reluctant to fault Bills players or WM personally such as the Bills Daily assessment specifically praised him for doing tough running and hard work in a game against a team that like it or not was much better than us. His blitz pick-up worked which failed miserabl;y against NYJ has improved substantially the last two weeks so we'll see but a flat out indictment of this part of his game seems over the top and simply ignores the most recent reality.

 

He generally has not been used as a pass catcher but when he has he has caught enough balls to begin being a target for JP as je was last week. Heneeds to produice more, but the fact is to do a rationale assessment of this also it is on DFairchild and Losman to use him more. If he had a clear case of the droppsies such as the one Reed had a few years back criticism would be legit, but he has not and disappointment that he has not been used more rather than criticism seems more appropriate..

 

2. The indictment of Evans as never being able to be a legit #1 seems worthy of someone who uses a crystal or Ouija board for predicting football rather than looking at the players performances.

 

In a blowout against the best D in the league I was quite impressed with his hauling in 9 catches for 94 yards I only wish the rest of the receiving corps had been this productive. in fact you seem to dismiss his impressive performance the first two seasons as being because he was running with a receiver who attracted a lot attention. Perhaps then Moulds performance or perhaps Evans performance this year is also because of the performance of his partners but you seem to both disregard Evans being a part of Moulds accomplishments and also do not judge Evans play by the fact that Reed and Price not being the 2002 PP means that Evans has three consecutive good games while being the primary threat the D is trying to combat.

 

Even a post by VA Bills which questions a post opposite of your ideas is correct that flirting with 100 yards 3 of 5 weeks is only 60% rather than every week, but certainly if you are going to predict his future development, the fact it was the last three weeks in a row has one weight when measuring his full season but an different weight when measuring his trendline. His coming down with 107 yards against NYJ may simply be a one time deal after two less than stellar performance.

 

The second good game in a row where he hit the 90 mark in MIN may be a simple coincidence. However, his logging 94 yards as the primary target for JP against an outstanding Bears D is likely a trend and certainly any rational prediction puts alot more eight on the last three games than the first two is assessing his prospects.

 

3. I agree that I do not expect miracles from the recieving corps but mioracles does not strike me as a rational standard for assessment of their play.

 

In order of their catches:

 

Reed- He has impressed me so far this year, but this is because I saw him as our #4 receiver while he has held the two job for the most part. I agree he is a #3 at best, but I am impressed that he has proven to be enough of a go to guy with some RAC ability that he is a legit #3.

 

Price- the drop he hd against the Bears when he got enough separation that he started running before he caught a JP pass which was an OK throw at best, was a real error on his part. However, his TD run against MN was outstanding and if he can be the receiver he was against MN rather than he was against Chicago he may in fact be aq legit #2. The bottom line is he is not there yet, but his play and production shoes some potential that while yiour are right one would be foolish to expect miracles it also strikes me as foolish to not expect him to become solid, He hs shown the capability in spots to do this.

 

Parrish- He was such a stud against NYJ it is hard to be dismiss his possibilities as well. I hope he can become the #3 you seem to give him credit for being because I think Reed has commanded that slot. Still one of the ways players get better is competition and that is what the Bills have so i think your dismissal says more about the lack of quality and detail of your assessment than the simple facts of their play.

 

4. Assessing JP is touigh since this is one case where I think that his poor statistical performance against the Bears twlls a very different story than hs overall play in the first four games. Overall, I think it is a legit assemment that he is not there yet.

 

However, if one is trying to be predictive of the future it becomes more important to take the specific games apart and look at them.

 

The Bears game actually is helpful in judging him because it was a demonstration that he is not a good enough player to add value to this team so they can beat or even hang with a much better team. I hope JP gets this as well because the key to good performance by him seems to be him managing the game and being managed by the OC.

 

I have no problem with this as I think he can play an excellent game wkem ke plays within himself (as was shown when Evans beat the Bears secondary deep on the first series and would have had an excellent shot at a scoring a TD if JP had not simply not thrown an uncatchable ball which went virtually if not totally out of the endzone.

 

I see JP becoming the QB the Bills need to win it all or at least go deep in the playoffs not when he becomes John Elway (he won't) or Peyton Manning (I do not think he wants to pattern his achievement after a great QB who only once had the achievement of taking a team deep in the playpffs.

 

Instead, I think JP can become the QB we need to in a bunch if he becomes a palyer equivalent to a game manager like Trent Dilfer who is actually better than him because he does what he is told and stays out of trouble like Dilfer but has extraordinary athleticism that allows him to make playswhen things break down.

 

I think in 3 of the 5 games he showed that management ability under the guidance of Fairchild and in the game against NYJ he tried a bit too hard and though he put up great yatrdage he fumbled twice and threw an INT trying to make things happem rather than letting the game come to him. Perhaps the Bears game has shown him that he must not panic and should lay back a little and then he will be the QB we need to go far. If he had to do more than he has shown I would be seeing this as a fools quest, but as he actually needs to do less than he tries to do this can be done though it is often difficult for the athletic heart.

 

5. I agree that the OL is not likely at all to deliver us a good performance over the rest of the season, though i do not understand from your analysis if you make this judgment for other reasons beyond the fact free opinions we are entitled to. Specifically, I think our problem is a lack of depth. As the season goes on an any players are injured as happens unfortunately too often in this brutal game and most likely we gen to see the nicks which often occur which slows a player down I do not see us having the experience to make this work.

 

I agree that FA is the best course for improving this team, but the good news is that rather than two seasons, I think we can get players who can provide this depth and even compete with the current starters in one FA go roung.

 

The bottomline is this predictions about the future by anyone are merely fact free opinions with out some analysis with the depth or correctness to back them up. despite the length of your post while the truth can hurt, opinions are entitled to but simply are just that. The contradicttions (is Evans bad because the supporting receivers are inferior or are the supporting case poor becaue Evans is no #1) and as as yet unsupported claims (why would one totally ignore his production in the last three games when looking for trends) just hang out there despite the length.

 

Your RB opinions seem very at variance with facts. I do not remember the career stats of Ronnie Harmon but if his career is in fact a parallel for WM how many yards di he rush for after 5 games to rank #3 in the NFL (again i am not saying that rush yardage is the only factor to assess and RB by, but it simply make no sense to simply dismiss this completely particularly when the player you compare him to did not show the same real world production.

 

You also state that he does not scare anyone. Do you really have any evidence to support the claim that either MN or CHI simply ignored game planning for a player who was then the #1 RB for rushing yards in the NFL and had peeled off 150+ againstthe Jets. From watching both games, MN concentrated heavily om securing the middle of line by backing up the Williams boy and he was able to rush for 90 and retain the #1 rushing yardage slot when MN continued to focus inside and he got outside the tackles to put up major yards in a winning game. in fact it was the willingness of Fairchild/Jauron to stick to rushin WM up the middle despite a lack of success which allowd him to "scare" the DBs into rushing toward the middle of the line before they realized he was bouncing it outside.

 

Again looking at the Bears game, they certainly stoped him from getting more than fiftyish, buit this was because they are among if not the best in the NFL right now and they keyed on him. In general you do not throw players for losses unless you are keying on him right from the start.

[I 90]

So it would appear that the jury IS NOT in, Mr. Trooth.

 

Hung, and sequestered with Pyrite...

 

.

[pBills]

Are you serious?  After 4 games...You'd hitch your wagon to McGahee.  For Christ

s sake, he's in company with Frank Gore and Chester Taylor.  WHO?  And, why exclude the Bears game... he did play.  You're making excuses for him.  The fact is he has a 3.9 yd. per carry average for his career.  For an NFL back, that's average.  Willis is number one in the NFL in two categories... running his yap and whiffing on blitz pick ups.

 

800295[/snapback]

 

 

No excuses for McGahee... you to go by facts. Well then, who cares who his in company with? He is listed now as the number three RB in the LEAGUE. Give him some credit. Name a RB or rather NFL player who doesn't do some smack talking? Your troooth is weak.

[Dr. Trooth]

Reiterating and summarizing...

 

Bills O... work in progress

McGahee... not a championship RB.

Evans... great #2 (hasn't proved otherwise). The rest of the WRs are 3's at best.

Oline... serviceable, but the starting group won't get Bills to next level.

JP... Jury still out. 1 step forward, 2 back. By season's end we'll no the answer to whether or not he's the real deal. Has to unlearn what Mularkey/Wyche taught him + deal without having a championship caliber RB and no #1 WR.

 

I think the only thing we're in disagreement here is on the McGahee issue. You can certainly argue it, but, no championships for the Bills with McGahee as the starting RB... mark it down. There may be some disagreement with my assement of Evans. However, I like Evans, but he's not in the class with the big boys... at least not yet. I don't know if he will or will not get to "Harrisonville", Steve Smithville" or Holtville"... but right now he's somewhere between "Reggie Wayneville" and Darrell Jacksonville". He can be defended sans the doubleteam at this point of his career.

 

As for my comparisons with the former greats... well, if the Bills are to get to the next level, isn't that what it will take?

 

We're looking at a 2-3 team right now with 2 wins against the Fins and the Vikes... let's be real here. We all witnessed the carnage in Chicago. Teams like Broncos, Chargers, Ravens, Jags, Colts, etc.... teams they would have to go through to win the SB, they really can't matchup with at this time. And, who are the core players on this team? Are the core players JP, Evans, and Willis?

 

I know folks don't like to know the stone cold trooth, but many of us Bills fans were around when the Bills carved up the AFL in the mid 60's, so we know the look and feel of what a championship team is. The same is true of the early 80's when the Bills had Fergy, Cribbs, Frank lewis & Jerry Butler and a stout defense. And in the 90's with Jimbo, Thermal, Reed, Wolford, Ritcher, Ballard, Biscuit, Bruce, Odomes, etc. As fans, we sensed early on in those teams there was something special. Sorry, but that truly is the frame of reference... that's somewhat of the template.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Lotsa paragraphs.

800475[/snapback]

Challenge accepted.

[pBills]

Reiterating and summarizing... 

 

I think the only thing we're in disagreement here is on the McGahee issue. You can certainly argue it, but, no championships for the Bills with McGahee as the starting RB... mark it down.  There may be some disagreement with my assement of Evans.  However,  I like Evans, but he's not in the class with the big boys... at least not yet.  I don't know if he will or will not get to "Harrisonville", Steve Smithville" or Holtville"... but right now he's somewhere between "Reggie Wayneville" and Darrell Jacksonville".  He can be defended sans the doubleteam at this point of his career. 

 

I know folks don't like to know the stone cold trooth, but many of us Bills fans were around when the Bills carved up the AFL in the mid 60's, so we know the look and feel of what a championship team is.  The same is true of the early 80's when the Bills had Fergy, Cribbs, Frank lewis & Jerry Butler and a stout defense. And in the 90's with Jimbo, Thermal, Reed, Wolford, Ritcher, Ballard, Biscuit, Bruce, Odomes, etc.  As fans, we sensed early on in those teams there was something special.  Sorry, but that truly is the frame of reference... that's somewhat of the template.

800705[/snapback]

 

 

Ok, first off this "stone cold trooth" with trooth being misspelled is dumb. Secondly, you keep saying McGahee isn't championship RB and does not compare to the big boys... yet, he is so far ahead of all but two? Make sense? Didn't think so.

 

Now on to your look and feel of championship team. I don't believe that anyone here has stated that this team IS a championship team. Just that they are much improved and ahead of the game when it comes to rebuilding. Thinking, expecting or even talking about anything more than that is foolish.

 

With that being said, I do believe that they will beat the Lions and then the Pats at home... making them 4-3 going into the bye-week. Not bad for a young rebuilding team.

[Webster Guy]

Reiterating and summarizing... 

 

McGahee... not a championship RB.

 

...but, no championships for THE BILLS with McGahee as the starting RB... mark it down.

 

 

You say McGahee is not a championship running back, then you say he is not a championship running back WITH THE BILLS.

 

If McGahee played for Indianapolis is he then a championship running back?

 

Or- who out there IS a championship running back for THE BILLS right now?

 

Also, I think labeling WR's #1 or #2 is overrated. The combination of the top 2 WR's is more important than calling someone a #1 or #2.

[Peter]

This is like what Stephen Colbert refers to as "truthiness" or as, in this case, "troothiness."

 

In other words, it is mostly BS.

[buffaloboyinATL]

2) Lee Evans is an outstanding #2 receiver, and he proved that when Moulds was the #1.  But, that's as good as he's going to get... an uper echelon #2 (one notch above "Reggie Waynville').  He's no Tory Holt, or even Isaac Bruce, Hines Ward, or Marvin Harrison and never will be.  And he sure as hell ain't going to make anyone forget Andre Reed.

 

 

800209[/snapback]

I disagree with this statement. He is a number one receiver and can easily be our version of Steve Smith from Carolina. He is very fast, has great hands and is a great runner after the catch. It has taken him a few games to figure out how to beat double teams but he is starting to make progress. When he and Losman re-establish the chemistry that they have displayed in the past, his numbers will begin to explode. I have been impressed withhim so far and have a feeling the best is yet to come.

 

By the way, in addition to some of the comments above about Evans performance in Chicago, Evans also beat his man deep early in the game and would have had an easy 6 if the ball wouldn't have gotten away from JP and been overthrown.

[Dr. Trooth]

You say McGahee is not a championship running back, then you say he is not a championship running back WITH THE BILLS.

 

If McGahee played for Indianapolis is he then a championship running back?

 

Or- who out there IS a championship running back for THE BILLS right now?

 

OK, you win. Willis, as their #1 RB, for any NFL team, will not win a championship.

 

Willis... with the Colts. Wow, I can see Polian salivating right now to bring him on board so he can watch as EMS carts Peyton off the field after another blitz whiff by Willis. What exactly is Willis game? Is it power... if so, there are many more powerful backs out there. Is it speed? If so, where is it? he's approaching 800 touches... 41 for his long gain and no TD to go with it? Is his game elusiveness? Can't say I've seen any game tape with any evidence of that... you'll have to show me a clip. Is his game blocking? that last question wa s a joke... please forgive me.

 

Who then?... Damn, I like a lot of other RBs out there, but the Bills can't have any of them... Alenader, Ladanian, Willie P., etc. But, the one I like the most though is Laurence Maroney...he's the real deal.

[Gordio]

Now there's some perspective. You're even more of a newb here than I am.

 

Give it a rest. Willis busted a couple huge runs over his career that came back with penalties. He had a 60+ yarder in the preseason. The guy has it to be a top 5 NFL back. Our line is a terrible run blocking line. They don't have the power to move the pile or create proper holes. Willis gets his yards the hard way, every game.

 

Not to mention, his blitz pickups have been amazing since he whiffed that one. And no one was harder on Willis after whiffing that big blitz pickup than he was on himself. The guy stood up and took responsibility in the media for !@#$ing up.

800335[/snapback]

 

 

So your opinion is wrong unless you posted 10,000 times here?

[jjamie12]

You can certainly argue it, but, no championships for the Bills with McGahee as the starting RB... mark it down. 

 

I feel compelled to respond to this nonsense. This prediction is just ridiculous. The early 90's Buffalo Bills never won a Super Bowl, either, so does that mean that you wouldn't want Thurman Thomas on your team?

[Dawgg]

I would take Maroney over McGahee in a heartbeat.

 

OK, you win.  Willis, as their #1 RB, for any NFL team, will not win a championship.

 

Willis... with the Colts.  Wow, I can see Polian salivating right now to bring him on board so he can watch as EMS carts Peyton off the field after another blitz whiff by Willis.  What exactly is Willis game?  Is it power... if so, there are many more powerful backs out there.  Is it speed?  If so, where is it?  he's approaching 800 touches... 41 for his long gain and no TD to go with it?  Is his game elusiveness? Can't say I've seen any game tape with any evidence of that... you'll have to show me a clip.  Is his game blocking?  that last question wa s a joke... please forgive me.

 

Who then?... Damn, I like a lot of other RBs out there, but the Bills can't have any of them... Alenader, Ladanian, Willie P., etc.  But, the one I like the most though is Laurence Maroney...he's the real deal.

800826[/snapback]

[Dibs]

......

McGahee... not a championship RB.....

800705[/snapback]

gee, I guess you really know what you are talking about...

 

....Willis, as their #1 RB, for any NFL team, will not win a championship....

800826[/snapback]

WM is simply not good enough to win a championship on any team? Thanks for the information.

 

If only we had a RB of the caliber of....

A.Smith(2003 & 2001)

M.Pittman(2002)

Levens or Bennett(1996)

 

Usually I have a really hard time thinking for myself about such difficult things as player talent....that is why I'm so glad there are people like you to tell me just how it is. I'll be sure to argue the case against WM to non-Bills fans if he does manage to get the rushing crown....or god forbid get a first class OL in front of him & produce massive numbers.

Thanks Dr. Tooth. What would I ever do without you insightful analysis?

[VABills]

gee, I guess you really know what you are talking about...

WM is simply not good enough to win a championship on any team?  Thanks for the information.

 

If only we had a RB of the caliber of....

A.Smith(2003 & 2001)

M.Pittman(2002)

Levens or Bennett(1996)

 

Usually I have a really hard time thinking for myself about such difficult things as player talent....that is why I'm so glad there are people like you to tell me just how it is.  I'll be sure to argue the case against WM to non-Bills fans if he does manage to get the rushing crown....or god forbid get a first class OL in front of him & produce massive numbers.

Thanks Dr. Tooth.  What would I ever do without you insightful analysis?

801352[/snapback]

You had me until Edgar Bennett. Bennett was a damn good back. Running,, catching and blocking. One of the best in the game at the time.

[John from Riverside]

The internet truly is the Idiot's Podium.

800373[/snapback]

 

Tru Dat....that is all I can say

[Dibs]

You had me until Edgar Bennett.  Bennett was a damn good back.  Running,, catching and blocking.  One of the best in the game at the time.

801357[/snapback]

That does not disprove my point though....

You still agree with the point I'm making even though you disagree with one of the examples I gave to prove my point don't you?

[Pyrite Gal]

Reiterating and summarizing... 

 

Bills O... work in progress

McGahee... not a championship RB.

Evans... great #2 (hasn't proved otherwise). The rest of the WRs are 3's at best.

Oline... serviceable, but the starting group won't get Bills to next level.

JP... Jury still out.  1 step forward, 2  back.  By season's end we'll no the answer to whether or not he's the real deal.  Has to unlearn what Mularkey/Wyche taught him + deal without having a championship caliber RB and no #1 WR.

 

I think the only thing we're in disagreement here is on the McGahee issue. You can certainly argue it, but, no championships for the Bills with McGahee as the starting RB... mark it down.  There may be some disagreement with my assement of Evans.  However,  I like Evans, but he's not in the class with the big boys... at least not yet.  I don't know if he will or will not get to "Harrisonville", Steve Smithville" or Holtville"... but right now he's somewhere between "Reggie Wayneville" and Darrell Jacksonville".  He can be defended sans the doubleteam at this point of his career. 

 

As for my comparisons with the former greats... well, if the Bills are to get to the next level, isn't that what it will take?

 

We're looking at a 2-3 team right now with 2 wins against the Fins and the Vikes... let's be real here.  We all witnessed the carnage in Chicago.  Teams like Broncos, Chargers, Ravens, Jags, Colts, etc.... teams they would have to go through to win the SB, they really can't matchup with at this time.  And, who are the core players on this team? Are the core players JP, Evans, and Willis?

 

I know folks don't like to know the stone cold trooth, but many of us Bills fans were around when the Bills carved up the AFL in the mid 60's, so we know the look and feel of what a championship team is.  The same is true of the early 80's when the Bills had Fergy, Cribbs, Frank lewis & Jerry Butler and a stout defense. And in the 90's with Jimbo, Thermal, Reed, Wolford, Ritcher, Ballard, Biscuit, Bruce, Odomes, etc.  As fans, we sensed early on in those teams there was something special.  Sorry, but that truly is the frame of reference... that's somewhat of the template.

800705[/snapback]

 

 

If you add "recomsiodering some of my previous unsupported fact free opinions" to the reiterating and summarizing you started this post with then we are talking something which is worthy of being taken seriously.

 

I don't think that folks would disagree with some of the work in progres or jury still out comments you make in this post. It is the stuff you state is stone cold fact, or that Evans will never get better, or even the potential reading of the comments in this post about McGahee (I agree that he is not a championship qualiy RB at this point, but while he is not Thurman or OJ at this point, the fact that he is the fastest Bill RB ever to reach 2000 yards rushing and one can see the still unfinished but much improved WM work on blitz pick-ups in his game by contrasting the whiff he made last year that led to a JP safety, his misses in the Jets game this year and some pretty good performances in the last two games.

 

It is this which you depict as stone cold trusth which is clearly beyond anyone to actually predict unless you have a crystal ball the rest of us do not have and which even your own arguments actually contradict.

 

While there is no stone cold truth in terms of predictions about the very young and still well on the frontside of their development of players like Evans and WM (and even JP though you correctly do not seem to make stone cold predictions about his play) the actual facts (which legit predictions cannot be made from though we alll are enttled to express out hopes for what will happen and try to substantiate those hopes by citing facts - though why any troo Bills fan would hope Evans or WM will fail is beyind me):

 

1. Like it or not Evans is the #1 WR on this team and the facts are he has led this team in catches the last three weeks in a row by a substantial amount. In each game against substandard Ds as the Jets appear to be and the best of them as the Bears clearly are he has produced about 100 yards with some nice grabs. If one indicts his fellow receivers as being no better than #3s then this performance is even more impressive as he has performed without a legit #2 threat on the field with him (though clearly Moulds has a legit #2 threat in Evans by his side.

 

One can complain (read that as whine actually) about particular aspects of his performance such as his like Marvin Harrison only having put up 1 TD so far this year, but given his moving into the top 10 now in receptions after a horrid start in the firdt two games he clearly is getting better and he and JP have the same chemistry they showed last year in the fiest quarter against Miami.

 

2. The fact remains that McGahee is also a work in progress, he really is not that far removed in terms of time from a compound knee injury which seemed at the time likely to end his career. It is truly a testimoney to hard work on his part (whether prompted by wanting the money or character who knows though the answer is likely both) that he made it back to get chosen in the first round and he has demonstrated to date that TD made a good choice as he acquired a man who showed top 5 player talent before his injury at #23.

 

We'll see how this turns out ultimately, but as the quickest Bill RB to ruh for 2000 yards, by his howing some glimmers of receiving talent though he is not utilized that way by the Bills O, he has one of the best stiff arms in the league and he has had and continus to have as recently as a couple of games ago big blitz pick-up problems, but has demonstrated some very good blitz pick-ups the last couple of games including one play where he actually made two good blitz blocks on the same play.

 

WM is also clearly a work in progress, but since the fact is to date he is 3rd in the NFL for yardage among RBs he has a great base to progress from. Some folks seem really cheesed at WM for odd comments like his baby momma comments and I agree they seem stupid. However, I simply think folks should make a decision no to sleep with WM and simply enjoy some ough running he is doing for us.

 

The only stone cold trooth here is that this team is a work in progress from top to bottom. The good news unless the observer has some great affectiion for te accomplishments of the 05 Bills the progress the 06 squad is showing from last years play is real and the prescence of a large number of young players in key roles for this 2-3 team bodes well for the Bills.