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Colts | Team may be forced to pursue a QB

Mon, 4 Sep 2006 07:26:48 -0700

 

Mike Chappell, of the Indianapolis Star, reports if Indianapolis Colts backup QB Jim Sorgi's (shoulder) shoulder continues to be a problem or the Colts have an interest in acquiring another veteran, two might be available. Reports have the Buffalo Bills willing to part with QB Kelly Holcomb and the Tennessee Titans at least willing to listen to overtures for QB Billy Volek.

 

Oh, I hope this happens. I don't want Holcomb in Buffalo anymore. Lets find a better veteran Qb.

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I wouldnt rule out Pittsburgh as an option to deal Holcomb especially now that Big Ben is out and Batch isn't the most reliable starter in the world and there is no one on the roster behind him.

 

That said...I highly doubt there is truly enough interest to warrant a trade for Holcomb...especially since that leaves us with only 2 active QBs and no veteran experience...

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Oh, I hope this happens.  I don't want Holcomb in Buffalo anymore.  Lets find a better veteran Qb.

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I highly doubt there is truly enough interest to warrant a trade for Holcomb...especially since that leaves us with only 2 active QBs and no veteran experience...

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Bird in the hand...

 

Three decent quarterbacks are a must for this team -- it looks like they are going to get hit as much as Bledsoe ever was. I am not sure Losman and Nall are up to the abuse.

 

As much as I don't want to see Holcomb, they might as well play the hand they were dealt.

 

 

.

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Would love to get a draft pick, even a late round, for KH - Nall will be fine as backup.  Pick up a 3rd stringer off the wire, and C.J. Leak can be our "disaster" QB (it won't come to that, anyway).

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Well, I think that we will get a 5th, 6th, or 7th round pick for Holcomb.

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As much as I don't want to see Holcomb, they might as well play the hand they were dealt.

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Do you REALLY think that, if the Bills get so beat up that both Nall and Losman are injured, they can still somehow be competitive with Holcomb? I mean really what's the point at that point.

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Do you REALLY think that, if the Bills get so beat up that both Nall and Losman are injured, they can still somehow be competitive with Holcomb?  I mean really what's the point at that point.

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Weren't they .500 with him as QB last year? I'd think that if the Bills were somehow competitive this year, a small stretch of .500 play wouldn't be a big deal.

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Holcomb has never performed cibsistently enough in the NFL to ever win the starters jpb in 10 years of NFL work and it really was very wisghful thinking to feel this was gonna happen with the Bills this year.

 

However, between his accumulated stats as he backed-up, was an inconsistent producer and had a few episodes extrmely good play he has been a quality back-up and has expressed an attitude of beind content tp be a sub if the situation called for it.

 

Even if he really does not mean it and is only saying the right thing this is valuable because we have seen how toxiic to a team a QB battle can be.

 

Holcomb certainly sucked big time as this pre-season began. This was quite disapppointing as a St. Louis style O seems made for his strngths and weaknesses. The key to performing well in this O is an ability to make good reads and to dump-off to the safety valve quickly if the D scheme and play deny the deep route. Doing good reads and dumping off should be Holcomb's game given his consistent checking off last year some Bills fans whined about and 10 years of seeing plays.

 

Yet his poor play seemed to indicate that he simply had trouble picking up a new offense ( a horrible read caused the INT in the first pre-season game) and he sucked most of this pre-season. Some veiwers make the mistake of assuming that because the St. L style is pass-happy that Holcomb cannot throw it deep and his make-up sucks for our style of play. Yet, they fail to recognize that the likely Bill O (nobody knows for sure until a few games occur) has seen it yet. However, the St. L O actually utilizes a lot of short passes and RAC to produce highpowered results.

 

Holcomb finally seems to have gotten it in his last outing and if this type of play continues he is easily our best choice right now to give JP rellief if he needs it. Nall isnteresting and it was his injury which cost him a shot at the starting job and only KH's poor performance gave him a shot at the #2.

 

However, Nall may haen oressing a bit because he knew he was behing the eight-ball having missed some essental playing time with his injury. At any rate, it looks like he did inherit Brett Favre's brain with some nifty passes and nifty escaoes from a sack. However, though he may have Favre intent he does not have the Favre skills and this led to a couple of INTs as ge tried to force the ball in a couple of situations leading to INTs.

 

Nall should still get some serious practice reps in practice or running the scout team or other activities that do not interefere with JP developing. However until the braintrust judges Nall to be ready, Hiolcomb is fine as long as he stays on the production track he showed in the Lion game.

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Weren't they .500 with him as QB last year? I'd think that if the Bills were somehow competitive this year, a small stretch of .500 play wouldn't be a big deal.

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True dat.

 

 

.

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The key point is what would the $$$ impact be if we TRADE Holcomb? He's got a big cap number right now, if fact it was wonderfully structured by his agent so the cap hit is worse if released than if retained. But if we trade him and the Colts assume his contract it would give the Bills some more $$ to throw in Clements direction to frontload his contract (thus making his future cap numbers more agreeable). I don't know how the cap structure works so can anyone fill me in?

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Absolute agreement that we have bigger problems than the #3 quarterback, and if we can get any value for the future for him, I would make the deal. I would have considered cutting him as well, so that he doesn't have ANY hit on our cap after this year. We can afford a cap hit right now, so getting rid of him now keeps him from having a negative impact in the future. If we didn't have Nall, I might want him around, but I like Nall, and JP will start 16 games anyway.

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Bird in the hand...

 

Three decent quarterbacks are a must for this team -- it looks like they are going to get hit as much as Bledsoe ever was. I am not sure Losman and Nall are up to the abuse.

 

As much as I don't want to see Holcomb, they might as well play the hand they were dealt.

.

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Agreed, unless we come away like bandits in the trade I see no need to trade him, we to need a backup QB and as bad as holcomb is he is probly better than anyone we can find on the market this late

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Well, I think that we will get a 5th, 6th, or 7th round pick for Holcomb.

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Hopefully a 7th. I don't think they get a 5th. EMO warranted a 5th, barely and EMO still has much productivity left in him.

 

It'd be nice to pick up a 2nd or 3rd year lineman IMO.

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Holcomb has never performed cibsistently enough in the NFL to ever win the starters jpb in 10 years of NFL work and it really was very wisghful thinking to feel this was gonna happen with the Bills this year.

 

However, between his accumulated stats as he backed-up, was an inconsistent producer and had a few episodes extrmely good play he has been a quality back-up and has expressed an attitude of beind content tp be a sub if the situation called for it.

 

Even if he really does not mean it and is only saying the right thing this is valuable because we have seen how toxiic to a team a QB battle can be.

 

Holcomb certainly sucked big time as this pre-season began.  This was quite disapppointing as a St. Louis style O seems made for his strngths and weaknesses.  The key to performing well in this O is an ability to make good reads and to dump-off to the safety valve quickly if the D scheme and play deny the deep route.  Doing good reads and dumping off should be Holcomb's game given his consistent checking off last year some Bills fans whined about and 10 years of seeing plays.

 

Yet his poor play seemed to indicate that he simply had trouble picking up a new offense ( a horrible read caused the INT in the first pre-season game) and he sucked most of this pre-season.  Some veiwers make the mistake of assuming that because the St. L style is pass-happy that Holcomb cannot throw it deep and his make-up sucks for our style of play.  Yet, they fail to recognize that the likely Bill O (nobody knows for sure until a few games occur) has seen it yet.  However, the St. L O actually utilizes a lot of short passes and RAC to produce highpowered results.

 

Holcomb finally seems to have gotten it in his last outing and if this type of play continues he is easily our best choice right now to give JP rellief if he needs it.  Nall isnteresting and it was his injury which cost him a shot at the starting job and only KH's poor performance gave him a shot at the #2.

 

However, Nall may haen oressing a bit because he knew he was behing the eight-ball having missed some essental playing time with his injury.  At any rate, it looks like he did inherit Brett Favre's brain with some nifty passes and nifty escaoes from a sack.  However, though he may have Favre intent he does not have the Favre skills and this led to a couple of INTs as ge tried to force the ball in a couple of situations leading to INTs.

 

Nall should still get some serious practice reps in practice or running the scout team or other activities that do not interefere with JP developing.  However until the braintrust judges Nall to be ready, Hiolcomb is fine as long as he stays on the production track he showed in the Lion game.

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Could someone with more patience to read these wordy post, please summarize for those of us who don’t have the time to page through these posts to get the point or points that are being made….because this person does make good points, but the long ramblings are many time too uncomfortable to read, especially while having other things going on…..sorry I wish I had the time to read your posts but they are too frustrating long. :w00t::w00t:

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Could someone with more patience to read these wordy post, please summarize for those of us who don’t have the time to page through these posts to get the point or points that are being made….because this person does make good points, but the long ramblings are many time too uncomfortable to read, especially while having other things going on…..sorry I wish I had the time to read your posts but they are too frustrating long. :w00t:  :w00t:

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I don't know why I agree to this, but here goes:

 

- Holcomb might have been a good starter had he been more consistent.  As it is, he's a good backup.

- The Rams' offense relies much more strongly on dump-offs and short passes/RAC than most people realize.  You'd think Holcomb would be a good fit for such an offense, especially with his ability to read defenses.

- At first Holcomb played surprisingly badly in the Fairchild scheme, but now he seems to get it.

- Nall has shown real promise, as well as some bad reads/interceptions.  Nall's problems might be due to learning a new offense, the injury, and the fact he was pressing.  Until the staff truly gets comfortable with Nall, Holcomb should be the backup.

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If the Bills could get at least a 5th round pick for him, I'd be happy with a trade.  This team should be worried about more than just this year, and it has bigger problems than the #3 QB spot.

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Despite popular opinion, KH remains #2 on the Bills depth chart. Perhaps marv is keeping him there to increase what he would get ion a trade for KH, but Nall did not show in the last pre-season game that he is ready to start 0or even do more than mop-up work as a back-up in the NFL right now.

 

Holcomb pn the other hand did show great improvement over his horredous performance in campr and pre-season games prior to his fairly good outing against the lowly Lions last week.

 

it really is a close judgment call which those who are focused on how they practiced and how they handle themselves in the locker room and in discussions with the coaches which really allows for good judgnebts about whether Nall was simply pressing in the last two pre-season games because he lost so much quality time to injury or whrther KH's hiorrendous performance in the first 2/3 of camp was due tp jo, hitting the wall as an older player OR instead was simply a demonstration of why he could never achieve starting QB status in his 10 year career despite some outstanding episodic performances and good accumulated stats.

 

Potential simply means you have not done anything yet, and Holcomb is well into the backside of his career so in essence he really has no potential. If he could ever have realized it he would have done so by now.

 

However, the judgment to be made is whether Nall has anything other than potential and if so how long would it take for it to be reaslized.

 

I certainly do not argue that Holcomb is a QB capable of starting in the NFL. He is not.

 

However, he has been a good back-up capable of producing in one or two games even in crunch time. I think the decision is whether one thinks he has a chance of doing this in the Fairchild O at this stage in his career OR whether the untested and unproven Nall in any real situations of greater import than mop-up time can do this.

 

Actually, what i do argue is that our fan opinions are worth even less than they are usually worth on this point. We are all entitled as fans to believe and say what we want (within the standards of conduct decided by the moderators) what I argue is that a fan can actually judge somethings fairly well given a careers worth of data and really seeing players perform in a system or at crunch time.

 

In this case, Nall's field time has been so limited by injury and really has been some good and some bad (very bad actually IMHO with his INTs happening on the brink of something good happening but I think he was pressing a bit more than normal because he was trying too hard to compensate for time lose to injury)that fan judments (mine included) are simply not worth very much on this question.

 

The same is true regarding Holcomb where actually we do have a career's wprth of experience to base our judgments on. However, though his career indicates that he really cannot be the starting QB, it does indicate he is a good back-up to have.

 

Ironically, his production in the first 2/3 of pre-season was completely counter to the good back-up performance of his career. The judgment on him is about whether the Holcomb we would see this year is the horrible in all cases one we saw the first two/thirds of pre-season or the reasonable back-up we saw in the last game. It really takes a lot of info not available to us fans to make even a half-baked guess.

 

What i think this comes down to is what do we think the Bills will do.

 

Again, I think many fans make a poor assessment of what Ralph and Marv want because they seem mostly interested in building a winner in the future because they are pretty sure this team will not make the playoffs this year (I think this is actually a correct judgment).

 

However, i think the Golden Boys are simply in a different place than many fans on TSW in that they certainly want to build for the future, but as octogenarians and businessmen they put a much greater priority than many fans on TSW on winning as much as they can now even if they fail to make the playoffs.

 

I think that the braintrust will likely want to stick with KH as a Bill until Nall shows a it more in practice. There is still to large a chance that JP will prove not worthy and that Nal would be a disaster if one depended upon him for them to simply toos KH on the asheap. KH showed enough in the last game to secure the #2 position though good practice from Nall could bounce him.

 

They might trade Holcomb, but it would take a good deal to get them to part with him. A seond day draft choice is not a good deal IMHO. Many fans seem to put too much stock in the draft because fantasy football and ESPN wal to wall coverage have really promoted it.

 

However, thedraft is simply a crapshoot in real life and for every McGee on the second day there are multiple more Mike Pacillo's and Jarret Fergusonss. If all the Bills get for Holcomb is a second day choice outside of the texans 4th rounder it is like giving him away and the downside appears to high for the braintrust to want to do this.

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Despite popular opinion, KH remains #2 on the Bills depth chart.  Perhaps marv is keeping him there to increase what he would get ion a trade for KH, but Nall did not show in the last pre-season game that he is ready to start 0or even do more than mop-up work as a back-up in the NFL right now.

 

Holcomb pn the other hand did show great improvement over his horredous performance in campr and pre-season games prior to his fairly good outing against the lowly Lions last week.

 

it really is a close judgment call which those who are focused on how they practiced  and how they handle themselves in the locker room and in discussions with the coaches which really allows for good judgnebts about whether Nall was simply pressing in the last two pre-season games because he lost so much quality time to injury or whrther KH's hiorrendous performance in the first 2/3 of camp was due tp jo, hitting the wall as an older player OR instead was simply a demonstration of why he could never achieve starting QB status in his 10 year career despite some outstanding episodic performances and good accumulated stats.

can you make your post a little shorter  . takes to long to read .  :w00t:

Potential simply means you have not done anything yet, and Holcomb is well into the backside of his career so in essence he really has no potential.  If he could ever have realized it he would have done so by now.

 

However, the judgment to be made is whether Nall has anything other than potential and if so how long would it take for it to be reaslized.

 

I certainly do not argue that Holcomb is a QB capable of starting in the NFL.  He is not.

 

However, he has been a good back-up capable of producing in one or two games even in crunch time. I think the decision is whether one thinks he has a chance of doing this in the Fairchild O at this stage in his career OR whether the untested and unproven Nall in any real situations of greater import than mop-up time can do this.

 

Actually, what i do argue is that our fan opinions are worth even less than they are usually worth on this point.  We are all entitled as fans to believe and say what we want (within the standards of conduct decided by the moderators) what I argue is that a fan can actually judge somethings fairly well given a careers worth of data and really seeing players perform in a system or at crunch time.

 

In this case, Nall's field time has been so limited by injury and really has been some good and some bad (very bad actually IMHO with his INTs happening on the brink of something good happening but I think he was pressing a bit more than normal because he was trying too hard to compensate for time lose to injury)that fan judments (mine included) are simply not worth very much on this question.

 

The same is true regarding Holcomb where actually we do have a career's wprth of experience to base our judgments on.  However, though his career indicates that he really cannot be the starting QB, it does indicate he is a good back-up to have.

 

Ironically, his production in the first 2/3 of pre-season was completely counter to the good back-up performance of his career.  The judgment on him is about whether the Holcomb we would see this year is the horrible in all cases one we saw the first two/thirds of pre-season  or the reasonable back-up we saw in the last game.  It really takes a lot of info not available to us fans to make even a half-baked guess.

 

What i think this comes down to is what do we think the Bills will do.

 

Again, I think many fans make a poor assessment of what Ralph and Marv want because they seem mostly interested in building a winner in the future because they are pretty sure this team will not make the playoffs this year (I think this is actually a correct judgment).

 

However, i think the Golden Boys are simply in a different place than many fans on TSW in that they certainly want to build for the future, but as octogenarians and businessmen they put a much greater priority than many fans on TSW on winning as much as they can now even if they fail to make the playoffs.

 

I think that the braintrust will likely want to stick with KH as a Bill until Nall shows a it more in practice.  There is still to large a chance that JP will prove not worthy and that Nal would be a disaster if one depended upon him for them to simply toos KH on the asheap. KH showed enough in the last game to secure the #2 position though good practice from Nall could bounce him.

 

They might trade Holcomb, but it would take a good deal to get them to part with him.  A seond day draft choice is not a good deal IMHO.  Many fans seem to put too much stock in the draft because fantasy football and ESPN wal to wall coverage have really promoted it.

 

However, thedraft is simply a crapshoot in real life and for every McGee on the second day there are multiple more Mike Pacillo's and Jarret Fergusonss. If all the Bills get for Holcomb is a second day choice outside of the texans 4th rounder it is like giving him away and the downside appears to high for the braintrust to want to do this.

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long post

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Bird in the hand...

 

Three decent quarterbacks are a must for this team -- it looks like they are going to get hit as much as Bledsoe ever was. I am not sure Losman and Nall are up to the abuse.

 

As much as I don't want to see Holcomb, they might as well play the hand they were dealt.

.

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Seems to be a feeling on this thread that Nall is #2. At the moment he's #3.

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Considering the state of our team, I would make the trade. Doesn't really matter what round the draft pick is, but I'd of course like to get something better than 7th round.

 

I feel Nall should be given the shot at backup - he played well enough and don't forget the money we are paying him is not bad either.

 

Then we should pick up another young QB to serve as #3. Let's face it, this is a young team and having a veteran QB at this point means what?

 

Here are some young QBs that are out there after the roster cuts:

 

Dave Ragone (cut by Rams) - real strong arm, lots of potential

Brian St. Pierre (cut by Ravens)

Stefan Lefors (cut by Panthers) - very smart, heady player

Brett Basanez (cut by Panters) - another good prospect from the Carolina system

J.T O'Sullivan (cut by Vikings) - probably has had his chances already, but at one time was a good prospect. Might be a little too "veteran" right now.

Bryan Randall (cut by Falcons) - lots of tools

Omar Jacobs (cut by Steelers) - would be like an extra draft flier

 

These are some of the ones I like more than Holcomb on my roster, anyway.

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http://www.kffl.com/player/462/nfl

 

Colts | Team may be forced to pursue a QB

Mon, 4 Sep 2006 07:26:48 -0700

 

Mike Chappell, of the Indianapolis Star, reports if Indianapolis Colts backup QB Jim Sorgi's (shoulder) shoulder continues to be a problem or the Colts have an interest in acquiring another veteran, two might be available. Reports have the Buffalo Bills willing to part with QB Kelly Holcomb and the Tennessee Titans at least willing to listen to overtures for QB Billy Volek.

 

Oh, I hope this happens.  I don't want Holcomb in Buffalo anymore.  Lets find a better veteran Qb.

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i don't know if Polian would do this, it would definately create a Holcomb/Manning QB controversy.

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I'd ask for a 4th and settle for a 5th. They NEED and WANT an experienced backup. Losing Holcomb would deprive us of a #3 QB too. Logically any pick from the Colts is going to be really late in any given round.

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#2 QB

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i don't know if Polian would do this, it would definately create a Holcomb/Manning QB controversy.

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Polian could easily avoid that controversy by simply trading straight up – Manning for Holcomb. I'd make that trade. Think of all those swell commercials now featuring Manning in a Bill's jersey. It'd be kewl! :doh:

 

Come on Marv! Peyton Manning - I've heard of him. Get er dun! :(

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it really is a close judgment call which those who are focused on how they practiced  and how they handle themselves in the locker room and in discussions with the coaches which really allows for good judgnebts about whether Nall was simply pressing in the last two pre-season games because he lost so much quality time to injury or whrther KH's hiorrendous performance in the first 2/3 of camp was due tp jo, hitting the wall as an older player OR instead was simply a demonstration of why he could never achieve starting QB status in his 10 year career despite some outstanding episodic performances and good accumulated stats.

761618[/snapback]

 

 

This is why I can't make it through your posts. What does this mean? It may as well be written in Chinese.

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