Kelly the Dog Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Troy Brown had 93 catches a few yrs back -- a pro bowler. Branch was the Super Bowl MVP. Givens was solid. David Patton was underated. Their TEs WERE AWESOME! TAlented players stand out. THey really do... 744585[/snapback] Peerless had 94 catches a few years back. Their TEs were far, far from awesome. They were decent and make a long catch and run every sixth game. Their receivers were very good at getting separation and making catches of balls thrown right in their hands a lot. I don't think you will see Givens being great on another team. The Pats think so much of Branch they're not talking to him after offering a mid range contract. David Patten is so underated he's not even wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Rich Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Peerless had 94 catches a few years back. Their TEs were far, far from awesome. They were decent and make a long catch and run every sixth game. Their receivers were very good at getting separation and making catches of balls thrown right in their hands a lot. I don't think you will see Givens being great on another team. The Pats think so much of Branch they're not talking to him after offering a mid range contract. David Patten is so underated he's not even wanted. 744653[/snapback] To be fair now, the Pats' TEs are pretty good and underutilized. Now, the WRs are overrated. Patten? Where is he now? Givens? Decent. Branch? Good, but not in the tier of guys like Harrison, Owens, Moss, and Fitzgerald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 No, you should adjust your reading glasses. Gimme a !@#$ing break, Joe. Do you even READ what I post? Have you listened to Jerry Rice? It has nothing to do with the Bills -- he's absolutely terrible. I believe the other responses to this thread back me up here. 744552[/snapback] Yeah, I've never even heard him talk about the Bills yet, today could be the first time. He just sucks, plain & simple. OTOH Schein (sp?) has blasted the Bills.. whenever they talk about the worst teams in the league this year, it's the Jets, SF, GB, and "of course Buffalo (holding his nose)". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROSCOE P. COE TRAIN Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 I have a great way for you to save everyone a whole bunch of time and bandwidth. Since 95% of your posts are about how much our players suck, why don't you just respond with "OPS" (our players suck) whenever you feel like posting. The abbreviation would be exactly the same as your usual drivel, and save everyone time. 744590[/snapback] Who you talking to big boy? You got a mouse in your pocket or something? Talk football. Get you mind out of the gutter... join the talk about post ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 I have a great way for you to save everyone a whole bunch of time and bandwidth. Since 95% of your posts are about how much our players suck, why don't you just respond with "OPS" (our players suck) whenever you feel like posting. The abbreviation would be exactly the same as your usual drivel, and save everyone time. 744590[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pass the Pipe Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Is this really a surprise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 To be fair now, the Pats' TEs are pretty good and underutilized. Now, the WRs are overrated. Patten? Where is he now? Givens? Decent. Branch? Good, but not in the tier of guys like Harrison, Owens, Moss, and Fitzgerald. 744656[/snapback] If ever there was a team that knows how to utilize their talent, it's NE. I get the feeling that Watson and Graham are a little overrated. They look very good on singular plays but they really don't do much. And a lot of time it's pre-season when you see them make these great plays. Don't get me wrong, I think they are a decent and perhaps solid group. And Watson and Graham get good YPC as a whole. But they have yet to be consistently good or really produce in the three years they have been together on a team with arguably the best short passer and short passing game in the league. Almost all of their TD catches seem to be terrific play action fakes by Brady and short, wide open easy catches with no one near them in the end zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Peerless had 94 catches a few years back. Their TEs were far, far from awesome. They were decent and make a long catch and run every sixth game. Their receivers were very good at getting separation and making catches of balls thrown right in their hands a lot. I don't think you will see Givens being great on another team. The Pats think so much of Branch they're not talking to him after offering a mid range contract. David Patten is so underated he's not even wanted. 744653[/snapback] You got to it before I wanted to pour in...Also how many people knew about David Givens or a David Patten before they had their "breakout" years...... And David Patten might be cut by the Redskins just after signing him last year.... Bottom line is, there are not many teams in the league who have a standout at their #1 and #2 positiion.....Also, considering that there has been a big overhaul at OBD, you can only expect the unknown on the roster during the preseason.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROSCOE P. COE TRAIN Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 If ever there was a team that knows how to utilize their talent, it's NE. I get the feeling that Watson and Graham are a little overrated. They look very good on singular plays but they really don't do much. And a lot of time it's pre-season when you see them make these great plays. Don't get me wrong, I think they are a decent and perhaps solid group. And Watson and Graham get good YPC as a whole. But they have yet to be consistently good or really produce in the three years they have been together on a team with arguably the best short passer and short passing game in the league. , wide open easy catches with no one near them in the end zone. 744696[/snapback] What are you talking about? Watson and Graham are two of the best TEs in the league at BLOCKING and at catching. Yeah, no 45 yard bombs will be seen, but they are clutch and always play well and get off the line and grab balls. For a TE, for me, blocking is %50 of the job along with catching. YOU are generalizing a little much for me. (i.e., "Almost all of their TD catches seem to be terrific play action fakes by Brady"). But to get back to another post of yours, AT THIS juncture, the Bills receivers have not shown to be as good as the Pats. Again, Troy Brown was a premier WR. Deon Branch is NOT GOOD, he is GREAT. That is a fact. YOU are right that Price had that one good season. But he showed he could not BE A #1 int eh league in atlanta. He is a 2nd or 3rd guy, ALVIN HARPER! Moudls carried him . Branch and Brown have been double teamed and tripple teamed. THey are #1 guys. Reed and Parrish have shown nothing thus far. Evans looks good. But all in all, the Pats guy have done it already, the Bills guys have not. Potential can only get you so far in this context. I dont think you have a very solid arguement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 I have a great way for you to save everyone a whole bunch of time and bandwidth. Since 95% of your posts are about how much our players suck, why don't you just respond with "OPS" (our players suck) whenever you feel like posting. The abbreviation would be exactly the same as your usual drivel, and save everyone time. 744590[/snapback] Not exactly the same. It would be more coherent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 What are you talking about? Watson and Graham are two of the best TEs in the league at BLOCKING and at catching. Yeah, no 45 yard bombs will be seen, but they are clutch and always play well and get off the line and grab balls. For a TE, for me, blocking is %50 of the job along with catching. YOU are generalizing a little much for me. (i.e., "Almost all of their TD catches seem to be terrific play action fakes by Brady"). But to get back to another post of yours, AT THIS juncture, the Bills receivers have not shown to be as good as the Pats. Again, Troy Brown was a premier WR. Deon Branch is NOT GOOD, he is GREAT. That is a fact. YOU are right that Price had that one good season. But he showed he could not BE A #1 int eh league in atlanta. He is a 2nd or 3rd guy, ALVIN HARPER! Moudls carried him . Branch and Brown have been double teamed and tripple teamed. THey are #1 guys. Reed and Parrish have shown nothing thus far. Evans looks good. But all in all, the Pats guy have done it already, the Bills guys have not. Potential can only get you so far in this context. I dont think you have a very solid arguement... 744721[/snapback] Put it this way. If you put Evans, Price, Reed, Parrish, Davis and Aiken on the Patriots with their line and coaching and Brady, not to mention apparently the best TEs in the game, they would EXCEL as a group. I am very confident of that. If you put Branch and GIvens and Troy Brown and David Patten on the Bills last year, they would have done no better than our guys did. I am also very confident of that. I do think the Pats receivers in the last few years have been exceptional at getting open and hangin onto the ball. But that is a lot easier when you have great plays, great blocking, great quarterbacking and good/sometimes great running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROSCOE P. COE TRAIN Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Put it this way. If you put Evans, Price, Reed, Parrish, Davis and Aiken on the Patriots with their line and coaching and Brady, not to mention apparently the best TEs in the game, they would EXCEL as a group. I am very confident of that. If you put Branch and GIvens and Troy Brown and David Patten on the Bills last year, they would have done no better than our guys did. I am also very confident of that. I do think the Pats receivers in the last few years have been exceptional at getting open and hangin onto the ball. But that is a lot easier when you have great plays, great blocking, great quarterbacking and good/sometimes great running. 744726[/snapback] Agreed, as a whole the Pats WRs have had a better WR corps b/k of the OL, Brady, coaching, and TEs. But still, I haev seen Brown and Branch, and even Givens play. To me, they are / were top players at their position. At this stage, no one at the Bills WR position has stuck me as having those types of moves, hands, speed, etc. We have seen Reed. Parrish is a question mark. Price was a flash in the pan. Evans looks promising. All these guys have never been a #1 WR -- like Branch and Brown have. Plus, Price was a #1 in Atlanta and was laughed out of the city. He was pathetic and could not get open b/k he can only run a skinny post and no other route. That is a league wide fact. But how can we compare question marks with guys who are all pro types and the Super Bowl MVP? I don't see that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 nor do they have any experience outside of an average P. Price who can't change directions if his life depended on it. Rices' comments from afar, are right on point. In light of Moulds being gone, the pressure will be even greater on Evans to beat double teams. ANd Passish has to show he can stay healthy. The jury has rendered its verdict on JOsh Reed == great college player, HORRIBLE pro game speed player. 744535[/snapback] Okay ROSCOE, I know you have been taking a lot of grief, here, for being pretty negative, because you are of the opinion that the Bills "have the worst talent in the NFL" (which you have stated over and over), and I agree with a lot of what you have been "preaching", but your analysis of Peerless Price is way off...making me think you are just making stuff up, to be negative about. There is plenty not to like about the Bills this year, you don't need to fabricate more. Where do you get that Peerless Price "can't change directions, if his life depended on it"? What exactly does that mean? How does it apply to anything? Go back and look at Bills games from 2002, when Price had his best year. I defy you to tell me that Price "can't change direction." He had better moves after the catch than just about any Bills receiver since Andre Reed was in his prime...unless something happened to him in Atlanta, or Dallas, to limit his mobility, I think your assesment of him is flat out wrong. I don't think anyone can really fairly asses Price, by factoring his limited opportunities in Atlanta and Dallas more heavilly than his play in Buffalo. That is what national media guys do all of the time, who don't actually watch the games, and repeat what everyone else said, to the poin where it becomes dogma.... I share your concerns that our receivers might not be physical enough, or posses enough size, as a whole, to make them effective. But if they get any sort of play out of the starting QB (whoever that is), Evans and Price should be an adequate starting duo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 He does suck as a broadcaster, no one's disputing that. What I'm disputing is eball's insistence that the guy knows NOTHING about our WRs. You don't have to look too deeply to see it isn't a very high-profile or high-production squad. I daresay even John Clayton could see that. 744592[/snapback] Again, your reading comprehension leaves much to be desired. The only thing I "insisted" is that Rice sucks as a broadcaster. I also "guaranteed" that Rice has done absolutely no research on the Bills' WRs. He only knows they lost his buddy Moulds (probably thinks they "done him wrong") and hasn't seen any of the other guys at the top of the stat sheets. So, he makes the unbelievably perceptive statement that the Bills don't have a proven WR corps. Whoopee. If you think I'm a "blind" homer, then you don't really read what I post. I, on the other hand, do read what you post, and you're the most negative, anything-that-can-go-wrong-will-go-wrong nincompoop around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROSCOE P. COE TRAIN Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Fair question re: Price. And I never said the Bills had the WORST talent, I said they almost had the worst talent (San Fran is worse off). The starting point with any receiver, which most don't consider is weather they are a starting #1 guy or a backup. The difference looms large. The #1 reciever (take moulds for instance) sees rolling coverage all gamea and double and even tripple teaming. There is a jam, man-to- man, flats coverage underneath, and then a safety over the top ever single play for the #1 guy. If you are the #2 guy, you don't see any of this. 2nd WRs like Reggie Wayne and in the past -- Alvin Harper (amongst many other over the years) have been able to work to pockets of space -- as they only have to beat one defender most plays. Price in BUffalo did this. This is a fact. Moulds drew the coverage. In atlanta, Price proved he could not be a #1. He was given EVERY opportunity to be that guy. He faltered. I, and I have heard others comment on this, think that Price is not a god route runner. All these guys can run a 4.5, 4.6 -- 40 etc, but hardly any can route run and make timing catches on outs and over the middle balls. Ass to that, that some are scared to cross the middle. Price runs great straight lines. He is known for that. In space he uses his speed. BUt with guys on him and in traffic, he concentration, does not adjust to routes when the play breaks down, hand-eye and footwork is suspect. ANd his dedication and offseason training have always been suspect. That is a overall NFL thought on the guy. His best days in BUffalo prove that he runs great posts and long patterns when he has a #1 WR to take the heat off him. TO be fair, Price is not a west coast Mora type Wr. He is a long pattern runner who likes the long ball. And Vick is hard to play for, as he improvises a great deal. But he still stunk and he did not paly well with Bledsoe in a simple offense. He will be servicable behind Evans. I never said he would not. But he aint the answer IMO. We are looking at a 550 yard 3 TD season. NOt bad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Fair question re: Price. And I never said the Bills had the WORST talent, I said they almost had the worst talent (San Fran is worse off). The starting point with any receiver, which most don't consider is weather they are a starting #1 guy or a backup. The difference looms large. The #1 reciever (take moulds for instance) sees rolling coverage all gamea and double and even tripple teaming. There is a jam, man-to- man, flats coverage underneath, and then a safety over the top ever single play for the #1 guy. If you are the #2 guy, you don't see any of this. 2nd WRs like Reggie Wayne and in the past -- Alvin Harper (amongst many other over the years) have been able to work to pockets of space -- as they only have to beat one defender most plays. Price in BUffalo did this. This is a fact. Moulds drew the coverage. In atlanta, Price proved he could not be a #1. He was given EVERY opportunity to be that guy. He faltered. I, and I have heard others comment on this, think that Price is not a god route runner. All these guys can run a 4.5, 4.6 -- 40 etc, but hardly any can route run and make timing catches on outs and over the middle balls. Ass to that, that some are scared to cross the middle. Price runs great straight lines. He is known for that. In space he uses his speed. BUt with guys on him and in traffic, he concentration, does not adjust to routes when the play breaks down, hand-eye and footwork is suspect. ANd his dedication and offseason training have always been suspect. That is a overall NFL thought on the guy. His best days in BUffalo prove that he runs great posts and long patterns when he has a #1 WR to take the heat off him. TO be fair, Price is not a west coast Mora type Wr. He is a long pattern runner who likes the long ball. And Vick is hard to play for, as he improvises a great deal. But he still stunk and he did not paly well with Bledsoe in a simple offense. He will be servicable behind Evans. I never said he would not. But he aint the answer IMO. We are looking at a 550 yard 3 TD season. NOt bad... 744772[/snapback] Your criticisms on price are all that he cannot be a #1 WR and fails horribly when doing so and needs a #1 opposite him to succeed. But we're asking to him to be a #2 or even a #3 and not a #1 and have a #1 who will draw this double coverage away from him. You're right he doesn't like to go over the middle but we have other guys who will be doing that. And it should also be noted that a lot of times in 2002 and 2003, Price was doing more damage than Moulds was and teams started double teaming him on a lot of plays and not Moulds. I read a couple Bills guys say this, like Killdrive or the WR coach Graves I believe. Price is a very decent #2 WR in this league, he's just a punk and a kitty and doesn't block. His success in Buffalo was not with posts. He never really caught that many long balls. Out of 94 catches in 2003 he may have had 8-9 total. He's very good at short routes, in fact, and excellent at cutting up the field once he catches a short pass. His acceleration is very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 So, he makes the unbelievably perceptive statement that the Bills don't have a proven WR corps. Whoopee. If you think I'm a "blind" homer, then you don't really read what I post. I, on the other hand, do read what you post, and you're the most negative, anything-that-can-go-wrong-will-go-wrong nincompoop around. 744754[/snapback] Well, then, we agree he sucks as a broadcaster, yet you acknowledge he's right on this point. Sounds like you're a bit conflicted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROSCOE P. COE TRAIN Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Your criticisms on price are all that he cannot be a #1 WR and fails horribly when doing so and needs a #1 opposite him to succeed. But we're asking to him to be a #2 or even a #3 and not a #1 and have a #1 who will draw this double coverage away from him. You're right he doesn't like to go over the middle but we have other guys who will be doing that. And it should also be noted that a lot of times in 2002 and 2003, Price was doing more damage than Moulds was and teams started double teaming him on a lot of plays and not Moulds. I read a couple Bills guys say this, like Killdrive or the WR coach Graves I believe. Price is a very decent #2 WR in this league, he's just a punk and a kitty and doesn't block. His success in Buffalo was not with posts. He never really caught that many long balls. Out of 94 catches in 2003 he may have had 8-9 total. He's very good at short routes, in fact, and excellent at cutting up the field once he catches a short pass. His acceleration is very good. 744785[/snapback] I hear ya. I think he was a good 2nd guy too. But I was saying that you have to factor in that he has not the same player he once was. He has not gotten any better. He is has some nicks now and the eye thing, etc. Indeed, he will be a #2, adn that is what they want him for. But with QB and not OL and evans not even bieng a known legit #1 -- he is a HUGE question mark. AND that is why jerry rice made his comments which i think have merit about our corps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 If you think I'm a "blind" homer, then you don't really read what I post. I, on the other hand, do read what you post, and you're the most negative, anything-that-can-go-wrong-will-go-wrong nincompoop around. 744754[/snapback] Hey, I thought this was MY title! In any event yes, Rice is a horror show as an announcer, and it is also foolish to expect sportscasters to say that the Bills don't suck simply because you want them to. Imo, the same applies to posters. It is not realistic to think that everybody is obligated to post the things that you want to read. You appear in thread after thread, jumping all over people who don't share your unbridled optimism. I think that this board would be a lot worse without some comments (usually true) that are not so positive. Some people really care and want things to improve. Please forgive my man JSP if he fails to see the need to always be there shaking pom-poms and yelling "sis-boom bah" because YOU want him to. It doesn't mean that he cares less than you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BILLSBACKERINLA Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 F Jerry Rice!!! Tell that idiot to go and dance with the stars!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts