MadBuffaloDisease Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 Kiper backed-off on criticizing the Bills' selections, and said that trading a 3rd to get McCargo was a bad move, not drafting him. But that's WITHOUT the realization that the Giants would have taken him at #32 and missed-out on him by trading down from their original 25th overall pick. FWIW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 To play Devil's Advocate - he would just counter that 2 wrongs don't make a right.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 Kiper backed-off on criticizing the Bills' selections, and said that trading a 3rd to get McCargo was a bad move, not drafting him. But that's WITHOUT the realization that the Giants would have taken him at #32 and missed-out on him by trading down from their original 25th overall pick. FWIW. 680461[/snapback] Actually, if anyone listened to what Kiper said, it was more to the effect that while he wasn't crazy about trading up to get McCargo in the first (he had him projected as a third, possibly 4th round pick) he thought the Whitner pick made sense, and the Youboty pick was very good. He went on to say, "if the Bills picked Youboty in the second round, and McCargo in the third round, we would be talking about a good Bills draft, and not questioning it, so it is really a non-issue...they got three guys they wanted." Kiper was far from critical of the Bills overall draft. He also said that while didn't rate McCargo all that high, he was aware that there were some (more than one) NFL scouts who did... I really like Kiper, bad hair and all. He is not always right, and admitts it, but he makes the draft interesting, and uses solid reasoning to formulate his opinions. He just seems to love the college game, and I can't detect any agenda on his part, good or bad, toward any NFL team. In fact, he rarely comments on NFL teams, other than their rookies. I dare say, if it wasn't for him, the NFL draft would not be the event that it has become...I am always kind of surprised that no NFL team has tried to hire him. That would be interesting....I suppose he has become such an icon, he couldn't possibly make as much with an NFL team, as he can with all of his other deals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted May 1, 2006 Author Share Posted May 1, 2006 Only time will tell if a "wrong," much less 2 of them, was indeed committed, Scott. But knowing that the Giants would have taken him at #32 makes me feel better that the Bills didn't "reach" as badly, if at all, like many claim. And if McCargo turns out to be a stud, all will be forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 I really like Kiper, bad hair and all. He is not always right, and admitts it, but he makes the draft interesting, and uses solid reasoning to formulate his opinions. He just seems to love the college game, and I can't detect any agenda on his part, good or bad, toward any NFL team. In fact, he rarely comments on NFL teams, other than their rookies. I dare say, if it wasn't for him, the NFL draft would not be the event that it has become... 680488[/snapback] Agree 100%. He has really toned down his style as well from where he was 10 or so years ago... you don't see him slamming teams or players very hard at all anymore... if anything, he mostly just highlights the players' positives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted May 1, 2006 Author Share Posted May 1, 2006 buftex: I listened to him several times, and when he was asked about who had the worst draft, he mentions the Bills. That's DESPITE what he said about the Bills getting the 3 players they wanted, just in a different order than he would have liked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 Actually, if anyone listened to what Kiper said, it was more to the effect that while he wasn't crazy about trading up to get McCargo in the first (he had him projected as a third, possibly 4th round pick) he thought the Whitner pick made sense, and the Youboty pick was very good. He went on to say, "if the Bills picked Youboty in the second round, and McCargo in the third round, we would be talking about a good Bills draft, and not questioning it, so it is really a non-issue...they got three guys they wanted." Kiper was far from critical of the Bills overall draft. He also said that while didn't rate McCargo all that high, he was aware that there were some (more than one) NFL scouts who did... I really like Kiper, bad hair and all. He is not always right, and admitts it, but he makes the draft interesting, and uses solid reasoning to formulate his opinions. He just seems to love the college game, and I can't detect any agenda on his part, good or bad, toward any NFL team. In fact, he rarely comments on NFL teams, other than their rookies. I dare say, if it wasn't for him, the NFL draft would not be the event that it has become...I am always kind of surprised that no NFL team has tried to hire him. That would be interesting....I suppose he has become such an icon, he couldn't possibly make as much with an NFL team, as he can with all of his other deals. 680488[/snapback] You really have to give the guy credit for doing something that we would all love to do. Moreover, as you say, (unlike Mort), he does not have an agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 And if McCargo turns out to be a stud, all will be forgotten. 680493[/snapback] Oh, I will not forget, I will call out the nay sayers, one by one... Actually, the mob mentality on draft day was pretty hilarious. The more the so call experts bashed the Bills the more the so called fans were coming out of the wordwork preaching gloom and doom. Kind of funny how things calmed down once the critics started backing off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 I really like Kiper, bad hair and all. He is not always right, and admitts it, but he makes the draft interesting, and uses solid reasoning to formulate his opinions. He just seems to love the college game, and I can't detect any agenda on his part, good or bad, toward any NFL team. In fact, he rarely comments on NFL teams, other than their rookies. I dare say, if it wasn't for him, the NFL draft would not be the event that it has become...I am always kind of surprised that no NFL team has tried to hire him. That would be interesting....I suppose he has become such an icon, he couldn't possibly make as much with an NFL team, as he can with all of his other deals. 680488[/snapback] I think i just puked in my mouth a little bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macdaddy Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 The guy from Scout Inc was killing us on the ESPN 6:30 drive time show. I'm sure half of America picked that up. I'm of the 'time will tell' camp. After the no opening weekend home game announcement and a non-eventful draft, I'm kinda down right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 buftex: I listened to him several times, and when he was asked about who had the worst draft, he mentions the Bills. That's DESPITE what he said about the Bills getting the 3 players they wanted, just in a different order than he would have liked. 680496[/snapback] I guess, during the course of the weekend, I never heard any of that. I heard Mortenson, and Golic mention the Bills, but never Kiper. If he mentioned them as haveing the worst draft, I would assume it was that he just felt (like a lot, until we learned that the Giants were eyeing McCargo) that they could have gotten their three guys in the first round, and another, with the pick they gave up. That would only make sense, given his position on McCargo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 I think i just puked in my mouth a little bit 680503[/snapback] Having the truth slap you in the face can often make one a little nauseous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD97 Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Having the truth slap you in the face can often make one a little nauseous! 680566[/snapback] Oh, honestly, as Tobin, the GM of the Colts once said: Who the hell is Mel Kiper? I don't think he knows crap. I just turn him off. You can tell a football player from just one play. The Combine's a bunch of crap too. Who cares about a player's 40 time? Who ever runs 40 yards in football? And who cares how high a player can jump? It only matters in the Olympics. The average Bills fan knows a lot more about good footbal players than Mel the Geek. That guy needs to get a life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Oh, honestly, as Tobin, the GM of the Colts once said: Who the hell is Mel Kiper? I don't think he knows crap. I just turn him off. You can tell a football player from just one play. The Combine's a bunch of crap too. Who cares about a player's 40 time? Who ever runs 40 yards in football? And who cares how high a player can jump? It only matters in the Olympics. The average Bills fan knows a lot more about good footbal players than Mel the Geek. That guy needs to get a life! 680580[/snapback] Of course, the pick that Kiper ragged on which caused Tobin to say "Who the hell is mel Kiper?! turned out to be Trev Alberts at #5 overall which may have been the team's second worst pick in history besides Steve Entman. Injured all three years in the league and retired before his first contract ran out. But carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 We are an instant gratification society and clamor for immediate draft grades. But of course that is ridiculous. We probably "graded out" pretty well with the Mike Willams pick several years ago, because we went with the consensus. But what did that get us on the field? I really don't care about snap judgements about teams' drafts. What matters is, what is our record 2 and 3 years from now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted May 2, 2006 Author Share Posted May 2, 2006 I guess, during the course of the weekend, I never heard any of that. I heard Mortenson, and Golic mention the Bills, but never Kiper. If he mentioned them as haveing the worst draft, I would assume it was that he just felt (like a lot, until we learned that the Giants were eyeing McCargo) that they could have gotten their three guys in the first round, and another, with the pick they gave up. That would only make sense, given his position on McCargo. Kiper's position on McCargo was weak. He had him initially as a 4th rounder. Then when he heard several teams were moving him up, HE did the same. Not really much of a grading system, if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Actually, if anyone listened to what Kiper said, it was more to the effect that while he wasn't crazy about trading up to get McCargo in the first (he had him projected as a third, possibly 4th round pick) he thought the Whitner pick made sense, and the Youboty pick was very good. He went on to say, "if the Bills picked Youboty in the second round, and McCargo in the third round, we would be talking about a good Bills draft, and not questioning it, so it is really a non-issue...they got three guys they wanted." Kiper was far from critical of the Bills overall draft. He also said that while didn't rate McCargo all that high, he was aware that there were some (more than one) NFL scouts who did... I really like Kiper, bad hair and all. He is not always right, and admitts it, but he makes the draft interesting, and uses solid reasoning to formulate his opinions. He just seems to love the college game, and I can't detect any agenda on his part, good or bad, toward any NFL team. In fact, he rarely comments on NFL teams, other than their rookies. I dare say, if it wasn't for him, the NFL draft would not be the event that it has become...I am always kind of surprised that no NFL team has tried to hire him. That would be interesting....I suppose he has become such an icon, he couldn't possibly make as much with an NFL team, as he can with all of his other deals. 680488[/snapback] Kiper also commented that he likely would have had a Higher Grade on McCargo had it not been for the Injury and his Early Entry right after... Kiper has commented before that he has been offered Jobs in the NFL but turns them down immediately because he has a true passion for what he does...He's a Franchise all by himself...Like it or not, Kiper and Buschbaum started everything you see today in written Draft Coverage. Kiper just took it to another Level on ESPN, and he is the best at what he does (Though Mike Mayock is a close 2nd now)... I could not imagine an NFL Draft without Mel...He makes it better every Year as far as I'm concerned...I'm a HUGE Fan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Kiper's position on McCargo was weak. He had him initially as a 4th rounder. Then when he heard several teams were moving him up, HE did the same. Not really much of a grading system, if you ask me. 680646[/snapback] Name me a pre-draft rating system that doesn't change the weeks prior to the draft. Kiper, like the rest, sees these kids playing during the NCAA football season, but nobody outside their schools athletic departments (alledgedly) gets to "know" them until the combines. You can't always tell what a players' personality is like, by simply wathcing them play. Attitude and personality can change a players grade. Listen to Perry Fewells' description of Whtiner and McCargo...he explains it pretty well....after the Rose Bowl, there were those who were thinking that LenDale White would be a high draft pick, right behind Bush and Leinart. A mis-spent 3 months dropped him all the way to the middle second round. Hell, Leinart was a stone cold lock top 5 pick just a month and a half ago, Vincent Young was looking like a middle to late 1st rouner... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted May 2, 2006 Author Share Posted May 2, 2006 Name me a pre-draft rating system that doesn't change the weeks prior to the draft. I understand that. However if you had a guy rated as a 4th rounder and simply because some scouts rated him as a 2nd rounder, you shouldn't exactly be railing against a team that took him higher than that. And if Mel delved a little deeper, he'd find that several teams were interested in McCargo, namely the Giants at #32. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 I understand that. However if you had a guy rated as a 4th rounder and simply because some scouts rated him as a 2nd rounder, you shouldn't exactly be railing against a team that took him higher than that. And if Mel delved a little deeper, he'd find that several teams were interested in McCargo, namely the Giants at #32. 680720[/snapback] McCargo was one of the tougher players to rate though, because he was clearly talented but he didnt have great size, because he missed half of the season, and because he was coming out a year early when a lot of scouts thought he should have stayed. Not to mention playing on a line with Mario and Manny Lawson. But furthermore, he was a very good prospect for a team playing the Tampa 2, but a pretty average prospect (because of his size mostly), for a team playing a 2 gap or 3-4, and there aren't a lot of teams playing the Tampa 2. So how do you rate him. He probably was a 3rd or 4th round talent for certain defenses and a 1st or 2nd for others, like ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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