This is hard to say!

[AKC]

This just in, Kelly Holcomb is a better QB than Tom Brady.

 

Fact: Kelly Holcomb is 2-0 this year without a dominating D

Fact: Tom Brady is 3-3 this year without a dominating D

 

Conclusion: Holcomb is (obviously) the better QB.

479728[/snapback]

 

We all must draw our own conclusions when faced with facts, I've prvoded the facts and now you've offered your conclusion- I'll respect your opinion that Holcomb is better then Brady but I'd find that difficult to support myself.

[Hollywood Donahoe]

The promise of the young is that they might some day become amusing.

Don't care much for being reminded of your own ridiculousness, eh?

[AKC]

 

Now if you are serious about comparing him to Peyton Manning, his numbers are 3/17, 79 yards, 3 TD, 2 INT, for a rating of 46.45. 

 

 

479751[/snapback]

 

You appear to be the one stuck on Peyton Manning- his name has hardly been mentioned in the string since he plays in a much different offense that relies on the real threat he poses in throwing the ball long. If you'd like to see why that's a threat you might consider his career stats on the deep ball.

[AKC]

You must not be wearing any pants while you're typing this because I can see your nuts.

479688[/snapback]

 

Seek comfort in the rythmic sound of my "facts" slapping your chin.

[Dan Gross]

You appear to be the one stuck on Peyton Manning- his name has hardly been mentioned in the string since he plays in a much different offense that relies on the real threat he poses in throwing the ball long. If you'd like to see why that's a threat you might consider his career stats on the deep ball.

479757[/snapback]

 

I'm not stuck, he's the only example of a current QB you gave that is better all-around QB than Tom Brady because of his long-ball throwing. You still, as usual, dodged the actual point about your QB ratings numbers appear to be wrong, and that they are actually reasonable (and far from being the worst in the league....).

 

So we know that Peyton didn't have to throw the "long ball" the last couple years as much because he had a reputation , what have you to say about the discrepency in the QB rating?

[taterhill]

You must not be wearing any pants while you're typing this because I can see your nuts.

479688[/snapback]

[Hollywood Donahoe]

I'm not stuck, he's the only example of a current QB you gave that is better all-around QB than Tom Brady because of his long-ball throwing.  You still, as usual, dodged the actual point about your QB ratings numbers appear to be wrong, and that they are actually reasonable (and far from being the worst in the league....).

 

So we know that Peyton didn't have to throw the "long ball" the last couple years as much because he had a reputation  , what have you to say about the discrepency in the QB rating?

I hope you're not going to actually wait for a straight answer. Expect something along the lines of "I understand the game of football - you don't." AKC is too football what Tom Cruise is to psychology - an amateur posing as a professional.

[taterhill]

I'm not stuck, he's the only example of a current QB you gave that is better all-around QB than Tom Brady because of his long-ball throwing.  You still, as usual, dodged the actual point about your QB ratings numbers appear to be wrong, and that they are actually reasonable (and far from being the worst in the league....).

 

So we know that Peyton didn't have to throw the "long ball" the last couple years as much because he had a reputation  , what have you to say about the discrepency in the QB rating?

479769[/snapback]

i hope you realize that he will reply and argue his point...no matter how ridiculous...FOREVER

[AKC]

So we know that Peyton didn't have to throw the "long ball" the last couple years as much because he had a reputation  , what have you to say about the discrepency in the QB rating?

479769[/snapback]

 

I say any QB who gets the benefit of seeing almost no coverage on top and still can hit only 25% of his deep balls is a laughable excuse of a deep ball passer. But if you find his company pleasant don't let me dissuade you from a sleepover.

[Hollywood Donahoe]

I say any QB who gets the benefit of seeing almost no coverage on top and still can hit only 25% of his deep balls is a laughable excuse of a deep ball passer. But if you find his company pleasant don't let me dissuade you from a sleepover.

Care to provide any evidence whatsoever that Brady sees "almost no coverage over the top?"

[AKC]

I hope you're not going to actually wait for a straight answer.  Expect something along the lines of "I understand the game of football - you don't."  AKC is too football what Tom Cruise is to psychology - an amateur posing as a professional.

479774[/snapback]

 

You should try and rely on the research of Bill's fans since you haven't shown the first sign of stringing together any coherent logic of your own!

[AKC]

Care to provide any evidence whatsoever that Brady sees "almost no coverage over the top?"

479781[/snapback]

 

That's right, you're too busy watching the QB to notice nobody gives safety help on top when Mudslide is playing.

[drnykterstein]

We need a forum entitled "AKC and Hollywood Donahoe argue about Tom Brady" its would be a very entertaining forum and fill up with thousands of posts in only a matter of days.

[gomper]

Being a huge Montana fan this idea of Brady as the best I've ever seen started to nag at me at the end of the '03 season. But he is.

 

His is amazingly accurate, clutch, and does all the little things exceptionally.

His play action and ability to set up the perfect screen throw is unmatched.

 

Sure he has great coaching but no coach can prepare you to make clutch play after play when the outcome hangs in the balance.

 

One game with the chips on the table, Brady is the man. Nobody is better when the pressure is on.....certainly not Manning. Oh yeah....he's as tough as they come too.

 

Even being a Bills fan, this kid is a pleasure to watch and could quite possibly have

5 SB titles before he's done.

[drnykterstein]

Being a huge Montana fan this idea of Brady as the best I've ever seen started to nag at me at the end of the '03 season. But he is.

 

His is amazingly accurate, clutch, and does all the little things exceptionally.

His play action and ability to set up the perfect screen throw is unmatched.

 

Sure he has great coaching but no coach can prepare you to make clutch play after play when the outcome hangs in the balance.

 

One game with the chips on the table, Brady is the man. Nobody is better when the pressure is on.....certainly not Manning. Oh yeah....he's as tough as they come too.

 

Even being a Bills fan, this kid is a pleasure to watch and could quite possibly have

5 SB titles before he's done.

479789[/snapback]

I'll bet you he never wins another one again.

[Hollywood Donahoe]

That's right, you're too busy watching the QB to notice nobody gives safety help on top when Mudslide is playing.

Standard television broadcasts typically don't give the viewer a good look at the safeties or where they're playing. So to make this claim, I assume you've somehow managed to gain access to the Patriots' game film.

 

I'll be waiting on that analysis of safety coverage versus Brady. Go check your game films.

[Ghost of BiB]

AKC...get a grip, calm down, have a drink or whatever.

 

It's a game, it's not our life - unless you are on the payroll. Put things in perspective.

 

Think soft music, candles, slim toned warm inviting female thighs and soft, warm lush lips with bedroom eyes. If you still want to concentrate on Brady...well, maybe you do have an issue.

 

It's only football.

[todd]

Why is it so hard for many to realize that Brady is a great QB? He's not the greatest ever, but who cares? He's a fantastic player. He's the best player on an offense that won the SB 3x. That's pretty damn good, folks.

[AKC]

Standard television broadcasts typically don't give the viewer a good look at the safeties or where they're playing.  So to make this claim, I assume you've somehow managed to gain access to the Patriots' game film.

 

I'll be waiting on that analysis of safety coverage versus Brady.  Go check your game films.

479799[/snapback]

 

You need to get out a little more. Playbook on NFL Network and 10 other shows give you additonal film angles plus on long balls you almost always get views that give up the defensive positions. You can watch what happens, or you can see what you want to see. Bradiots choose the latter, try the former if you'd like to learn something.

[drnykterstein]

Why is it so hard for many to realize that Brady is a great QB? He's not the greatest ever, but who cares? He's a fantastic player. He's the best player on an offense that won the SB 3x. That's pretty damn good, folks.

479804[/snapback]

The thread title says "Tom Brady ... might be the best ever"

That pisses me and probably a lot of other people off since we all know he does not deserve to be in the same thought as the class of best ever QB's. We never said he wasnt good, but read the thread title.

[Hollywood Donahoe]

You need to get out a little more. Playbook on NFL Network and 10 other shows give you additonal film angles plus on long balls you almost always get views that give up the defensive positions.

I don't have the NFL Network, and if I did, I'm not sure I'd have time to watch 11 different football analysis programs.

[drnykterstein]

I don't have the NFL Network, and if I did, I'm not sure I'd have time to watch 11 different football analysis programs.

479808[/snapback]

Ah so you're admitting AKC knows more about Brady's play than you?

[Hollywood Donahoe]

Ah so you're admitting AKC knows more about Brady's play than you?

I'm admitting that he watches more TV than I do. I know from his posts that he knows FAR less about than I do about a number of things (Brady, football, abstract thinking, logical reasoning).

 

He made a baseless, dubious claim about the coverages Brady faces, and has yet to provide any actual evidence in support of it. I've been arguing with AKC long enough to know that that usually means he fabricated it.

[Ghost of BiB]

AKC...get a grip, calm down, have a drink or whatever.

 

It's a game, it's not our life - unless you are on the payroll. Put things in perspective.

 

Think soft music, candles, slim toned warm inviting female thighs and soft, warm lush lips with bedroom eyes. If you still want to concentrate on Brady...well, maybe you do have an issue.

 

It's only football.

479800[/snapback]

 

OK, what the hell... get 'em!

[ASCI]

Hey AKC,  How many more Super Bowl MVPs does Tom Brady have than Kelly Holcomb and J.P Losman combined?   

You know you'd want him under center for Buffalo.    Its okay to admit it.

479328[/snapback]

not with this line!

[Campy]

OK, what the hell... get 'em!

479833[/snapback]

That's the spirit!

[Rico]

We need a forum entitled "AKC and Hollywood Donahoe argue about Tom Brady" its would be a very entertaining forum

479788[/snapback]

[LabattBlue]

i hope you realize that he will reply and argue his point...no matter how ridiculous...FOREVER

479776[/snapback]

How true.

[AKC]

not with this line!

479839[/snapback]

 

I have to give major credit to to the line scheme in NE and how incredibly effective they's been giving Brady 2 and 3 more pocket seconds than the average QB gets league-wide, especially up the middle. At the same time it would be foolish to ignore that when their scheme breaks down Brady looks like Zeke Bratokowski. I recall when Miami got a little heat on him in week 15 last year he pissed away a 180 yard rushing performance by his backs by tossing 4 picks in a loss.

[The Dean]

Brady is Bart Starr. Brady is Bob Griese. He's very good...actually, excellent at executing the O on this team. Some day he may legitimately be compared to Joe Montana.

 

Brady is NOT Steve Young, NOT John Elway, NOT Dan Marino, NOT Archie or Peyton Manning...etc. He just isn't among the most talented QBs to ever play the game. But talent is only part of the equation (just as QB is only part of the equation when it comes to winning).

 

If you put Brady on the Falcons and Vick on NE and left everything else (coaches, offensive schemes, defense, etc), both teams would be worse off, I believe.

 

If you put Brady on the Colts and Peyton on NE, the Patriots would be better and the Colts would be worse.

 

If you put Brady on the Bills and any of our QBs on the Pats, the Bills would be much better and the Pats would be worse.

 

It's not dissing the guy to admit he's quite good and excells at what he's asked to do...but also admit he's not asked to do what he's not particularly good at.

 

I have another slightly related question. Why is Terry Bradwhaw never discussed when the "greatest QB" conversation is in session? I'm not saying I think he is the best, but he has all the qualifications of Brady and Joe...no?

[MDH]

If you put Brady on the Falcons and Vick on NE and left everything else (coaches, offensive schemes, defense, etc),  both teams would be worse off, I believe.

 

If you put Brady on the Colts and Peyton on NE, the Patriots would be better and the Colts would be worse.

 

If you put Brady on the Bills and any of our QBs on the Pats, the Bills would be much better and the Pats would be worse.

 

It's not dissing the guy to admit he's quite good and excells at what he's asked to do...but also admit he's not asked to do what he's not particularly good at.

 

I have another slightly related question.  Why is Terry Bradwhaw never discussed when the "greatest QB" conversation is in session?  I'm not saying I think he is the best, but he has all the qualifications of Brady and Joe...no?

479961[/snapback]

 

It seems you're comparing physically gifted QBs with guys that are less gifted and thinking that the players who aren't big-armed gunslingers aren't as good (perhaps I've misinterpreted what you're saying though). Personally, I believe it to be just the opposite. I think you could put a smart QB that is accurate and makes quick reads on any team and he'd succeed.

 

Conversly, I think if you took a guy like Brett Favre and stuck him on a offense where he had to operate within the system he'd struggle mightily. Three step drop, make the read, and fire the ball? That just isn’t what Favre is good at. That being said, both players (Favre and Brady) have "it". That indefinable quality that allows them to make plays when their teams need it most. Elway had "it". Montana had "it". All the greats had "it".

 

So, Brady can't throw the deep ball as well as some other QBs, so? Jeff George threw a great deep ball, how great was he? Brady is smart, accurate, makes quick reads, senses the rush, moves in the pocket to buy more time and is a proven winner who constantly seems to make plays to win games. What more can you ask for? That's pretty much the perfect QB. So he's not a gunslinger, okay. Physical ability isn't the most important thing in a QB. As long as the QB can make all the throws (and Brady can) it’s these other things that make a QB great.

 

I don’t know how many times I’ve seen the Pats in a 3rd and long and Brady gets pressured, but he sidesteps the pass rush and finds a WR just past the sticks. It’s uncanny really. I can't even fathom people looking at this guy play and thinking "over-rated". I think the guy is under-rated actually. What other QB can accomplish so much and still have people question how good he is?

 

Speaking of under-rated, one of the few QBs I've seen in recent years that could consistently make plays when his team needed it is Steve McNair (before his injury) and nobody ever mentions the guy. I'll admit, he took awhile to groom but at his peak the guy was one of the best QBs I've seen in the last 10 years. It's just a shame his peak only lasted a few seasons.

 

And I’m sorry for my Fake Fat Skinny type post.

[Thurman's Helmet]

Brady will be in the conversation of the "best ever" when he retires along with when he's inducted into the HOF.

 

 

AKC makes me laugh with his skewed and/or made up stats. Its like he's still running around trying to convince us all that the world really is flat.

[CoachChuckDickerson]

Brady is Bart Starr.  Brady is Bob Griese.  He's very good...actually, excellent at executing the O on this team.  Some day he may legitimately be compared to Joe Montana.

 

Brady is NOT Steve Young, NOT John Elway, NOT Dan Marino, NOT Archie or Peyton Manning...etc.  He just isn't among the most talented QBs to ever play the game.  But talent is only part of the equation (just as QB is only part of the equation when it comes to winning).

 

Those are all big names you threw out there, and everyone of those guys played with a lot of offensive talent around them. Who did Brady have when he led the Pats to 3 Superbowl victories in 4 years? Rod Smith? Terrell Davis? Shannon Sharpe? Mark Clayton? Jerry Rice? Roger Craig? The Edge and Harrison? No he had Deon Branch and Antowain Smith.

[KD in CA]

Those are all big names you threw out there, and everyone of those guys played with a lot of offensive talent around them. Who did Brady have when he led the Pats to 3 Superbowl victories in 4 years? Rod Smith? Terrell Davis? Shannon Sharpe? Mark Clayton? Jerry Rice? Roger Craig? The Edge and Harrison? No he had Deon Branch and Antowain Smith.

480189[/snapback]

 

 

He also had a defense that held one of the greastest offenses in history to 3 points in 3 quarters.

[AKC]

Brady will be in the conversation of the "best ever" when he retires along with when he's inducted into the HOF.   

 

480120[/snapback]

 

It appears you've skipped the medication once again for your Pseudobulbar Affect-

 

Actual objective fans of the sport wouldn't even suggest that the "Best Ever" tag be applied to someone who tanked to .500 the moment his defense began to fall back to earth.

 

 

But think of all the possibilities:

 

The Memorial Day Brady .500

 

Brady Dairy Half/N/Half

 

TV Series: The Adventures of Winsome and Losesome Brady

 

Yes, the list could go on forever!

[CoachChuckDickerson]

It appears you've skipped the medication once again for your Pseudobulbar Affect-

 

Actual objective fans of the sport wouldn't even suggest that the "Best Ever" tag be applied to someone who tanked to .500 the moment his defense began to fall back to earth.

But think of all the possibilities:

 

The Memorial Day Brady .500

 

Brady Dairy Half/N/Half

 

TV Series: The Adventures of Winsome and Losesome Brady

 

Yes, the list could go on forever!

480265[/snapback]

 

You may want to check the point totals Brady has single handedly continued to put up this season despite the brutal defensive play. He has kept his team in every game.

[AKC]

 

So, Brady can't throw the deep ball as well as some other QBs, so?  Jeff George threw a great deep ball, how great was he? 

479985[/snapback]

 

You are involved in a discussion of whether Brady is the "Best Ever" and you're citing Jeff George as a measure?

[AKC]

You may want to check the point totals Brady has single handedly continued to put up this season despite the brutal defensive play. He has kept his team in every game.

480278[/snapback]

 

Mark Bulger has scored far more frequently than Mudslide yet he has a far worse defense. Might I assume, based upon the observations you deem germane, that Mark Bulger is the "Best Ever" to play QB?

[Johnny Coli]

You may want to check the point totals Brady has single handedly continued to put up this season despite the brutal defensive play. He has kept his team in every game.

480278[/snapback]

Well see, that's where Pats fans' arguments over the past few years go right into the crapper. For three years they have been saying that stats don't mean squat, it's the Ws and Ls that really count. Now their squad is at .500 and tanking and we have to listen to how it's not Brady's fault, look at the stats. Typical NE fans. "We get no respect." "Hardest first six games ever." "Injuries." Who cares.

[Ramius]

Well see, that's where Pats fans' arguments over the past few years go right into the crapper.  For three years they have been saying that stats don't mean squat, it's the Ws and Ls that really count.  Now their squad is at .500 and tanking and we have to listen to how it's not Brady's fault, look at the stats.  Typical NE fans.  "We get no respect."  "Hardest first six games ever."  "Injuries."  Who cares.

480290[/snapback]

 

I especially like the "historically difficult" first 6 games of the season as the reason they're 3-3. The record of the teams in this "historically difficult" schedule is 20-14, meaning the pats are playing on average, a 3-2 team each week. I dont know how they've even managed 3 wins with this brutal schedule.