Please, please, please...

[cåblelady]

Is this the official "Cutting Coy with Dignity" thread?

[EC-Bills]

Another vote for 'Cut Coy Wire'. Man he was terrible last night. Every time he lines up at safety he is simply lost out there. Bad pursuit angles, shoddy tackling, cut his ass. Special teams can't save him anymore, we need that roster spot for younger talent already showing more potential.

407166[/snapback]

 

Coy couldn't carry Kirk's jock nor even Picard's panties!

[LabattBlue]

Cool - YACWST - Yet Another Coy Wire Sucks Thread - can't be enough of those.

 

The Coy Wire Experiment was a failed one. He is NOT the next Adam Archuleta - not even the next Adam Retatta. I have never, in 30+ years of watching football, seen a player who sucked so bad have such a loyal following who are completely blinded to his lack of ability on the field. I wish Coy luck in his future - just as long as he is not wearing a Bills jersey in it.

406968[/snapback]

 

Cool - YACWST - Yet Another Coy Wire Sucks Thread - can't be enough of those.

[Gavin in Va Beach]

Unfortunately, there really isn't anyone on the roster to replace him. I don't think we can have two small, slight, untested UFA free safeties (Baker and Leonhard) being the back-up SS on this team. Frankly, we could have kept Prioleau as the back-up SS and ST ace and cut Wire.

407170[/snapback]

 

Kelly my friend, the Bills could call you up to play safety and even though you have to stop and hawk up a loogie when you run more than 10 feet you'd still be better than Wire. Baker or Leonhard are probably already as good at the position as Wire has shown to be over and over again. Time for TD to cut the cord on this one.

[cåblelady]

Kelly my friend, the Bills could call you up to play safety and even though you have to stop and hawk up a loogie when you run more than 10 feet you'd still be better than Wire.

407177[/snapback]

 

He'd look cute in a uniform, too.

[Sound_n_Fury]

Baker or Leonhard are probably already as good at the position as Wire has shown to be over and over again. Time for TD to cut the cord on this one.

407177[/snapback]

 

Baker and Leonhard (lil' Oppie ) are strictly FS material. With Roscoe out, it will also be very interesting to see how many reps Leonhard gets on the punt return team. He looked really elusive on his one good (non-fair catch) chance last night.

 

John Guy will be looking for a late cut veteran SS, I'm sure. Think I'll poke around some other rosters to see what might be a possibility...

[Ghost of BiB]

Cool - YACWST - Yet Another Coy Wire Sucks Thread - can't be enough of those.

407174[/snapback]

 

Another annual event that signifies the coming of fall. Where's the Rueben Brown offsides thread?

[Terry Tate]

Unfortunately, there really isn't anyone on the roster to replace him. I don't think we can have two small, slight, untested UFA free safeties (Baker and Leonhard) being the back-up SS on this team. Frankly, we could have kept Prioleau as the back-up SS and ST ace and cut Wire.

I don't understand keeping Wire over Prioleau either.

 

But they took a chance on Wire, and it doesn't look like it's working out so far. I wouldn't have a problem with replacing him (in the taking-a-chance-on-someone department) with Baker or Leonhard based upon how they perform in pre-season.

 

Leonhard's pretty short at 5'8", but he's not that small (190lbs), so he should be able to hold up to physical punishment - it'd just be the height disadvantage when the ball is in the air that would be an issue. And the guy looks like a real player so far. Baker is 5'10" 200lbs, so I don't think that it's that much of an issue if he is better at being in the right place at the right time.

[Typical TBD Guy]

@ stevewin. Way to make a point, buddy!

 

I didn't get to see the game last night, so I'll take your word and everyone else's who said Wire blew. I'm willing to give him the full preseason - that's all 4 games - to prove the doubters wrong. But if he's still playing that badly, then I'm canceling my CWAC membership fees.

 

2 quick questions for those who saw last night's game:

 

1. Did Leonhard and Baker play at SS or FS?

2. What level of competition did Leonhard and Baker face in the game, i.e. what quarter did they first show up?

[Kelly the Dog]

I don't understand keeping Wire over Prioleau either.

 

But they took a chance on Wire, and it doesn't look like it's working out so far. I wouldn't have a problem with replacing him (in the taking-a-chance-on-someone department) with Baker or Leonhard based upon how they perform in pre-season.

 

Leonhard's pretty short at 5'8", but he's not that small (190lbs), so he should be able to hold up to physical punishment - it'd just be the height disadvantage when the ball is in the air that would be an issue. And the guy looks like a real player so far. Baker is 5'10" 200lbs, so I don't think that it's that much of an issue if he is better at being in the right place at the right time.

407188[/snapback]

You're right, but it's hard to say. To me, Baker and Leonhard are the defensive equivalent to Shaud Williams. If forced into action at SS they could fill in for a breather or a couple series a game or a full game or two, but if asked to replace Milloy when he suffered a major injury and is lost for the season I am not sure their bodies could hold up for an entire season at that position.

 

I really like what I see of Leonhard. The Bills could get away with playing Wire even though he stinks. But again, I think PP is a better player than Wire, and just as good on special teams and can play FS better.

[LabattBlue]

@ stevewin. Way to make a point, buddy!

 

I didn't get to see the game last night, so I'll take your word and everyone else's who said Wire blew. I'm willing to give him the full preseason - that's all 4 games - to prove the doubters wrong. But if he's still playing that badly, then I'm canceling my CWAC membership fees.

 

2 quick questions for those who saw last night's game:

 

1. Did Leonhard and Baker play at SS or FS?

2. What level of competition did Leonhard and Baker face in the game, i.e. what quarter did they first show up?

407191[/snapback]

Baker was in the game during the first half. Leonhard was playing safety midway through the 3rd quarter. Wire and Leonhard were out there together, so I assume CW was playing SS and JL was at FS.

 

PS Leonhard had a nice pick which he almost returned for a TD. Unfortunately it was called back on a PI call(one of the LB'ers).

[Sound_n_Fury]

@ stevewin. Way to make a point, buddy!

 

I didn't get to see the game last night, so I'll take your word and everyone else's who said Wire blew.

407191[/snapback]

 

Last night might have been Wire's worst game ever at SS (that's saying a lot!). His poor play seemed to be highlighted in virtually every Indy replay that was positive.

 

Leonhard was strictly at FS, I think. He seems like a brainy kid that knows how to read the play as it unfolds in front of him, so he's definitely a center-fielder type, IMO. He even reminds me a little of your namesake, the great gazoo (especially on his interception), in that the ball always seems to be around him.

[Rico]

The Bills could get away with playing Wire even though he stinks.

407193[/snapback]

Don't think so. Whenever he's on the D field, he's the obvious weak link. You can try to hide him & protect him all you want, but sooner or later, he'll get you killed.

[Sound_n_Fury]

Here's the type of guy John Guy (no pun intented ) should be looking at. Carolina drafted Thomas Davis in the first round and he's slotted at #2 on the SS depth chart for the Panthers, moving ahead of McCree:

 

Marlon McCree - SS

Carolina Panthers

 

Height: 5-11

Weight: 202 lbs. Age: 28

Experience: 4 years

College: Kentucky

Drafted: Year:2001 Round:7 Pick:33, Jaguars

Scouts, Inc Grade: 69

 

His recognition skills most often get him into good position and he does a nice job of the reading the quarterback and jumping routes in front of him. He has good ball skills, flashes a burst once he's got it and looks almost like he would be a good running back. He is very physical and does a nice job supporting the run. Is a good open field tackler when he breaks down and is a powerful hitter.

 

However, although McCree explodes into his tackles and will force some fumbles, he can be overaggressive and he will miss some tackles trying to deliver the kill shot rather than breaking down in the open field and wrapping up. Despite his effort, doesn't have great bulk or lower body strength, doesn't match up well inside the box and gets driven back at times.

 

2003 HOU 13 games started 50 tackles, 35 solo

2004 HOU 16 games started, 24 tackles, 22 solo

[stevewin]

@ stevewin. Way to make a point, buddy!

 

But if he's still playing that badly, then I'm canceling my CWAC membership fees.

 

Why wait - come over to the bright side now! Think of all the beer you could buy with the refunded cash...

 

I was actually getting worried about you KH - a card carrying CWAC, AND also a Reed supporter. You seem to have quite an affinity for big-time (all-time) busts. Were (are???) you a big Flowers fan too? If we only waited a few more years for him to develop...

[stevewin]

Is this the official "Cutting Coy with Dignity" thread? 

407172[/snapback]

Well - it's not a silent thread...

[eball]

Unfortunately, there really isn't anyone on the roster to replace him. I don't think we can have two small, slight, untested UFA free safeties (Baker and Leonhard) being the back-up SS on this team. Frankly, we could have kept Prioleau as the back-up SS and ST ace and cut Wire.

407170[/snapback]

there's no one on the roster to replace a guy who sucks? forgive my ignorance, but it would seem to me there are plenty of fellas to fill that role. kelly, your comments are a perfect example of the "coy wire phenomenon" -- people act as if wire is a guy who would need to be "replaced."

[Kelly the Dog]

there's no one on the roster to replace a guy who sucks?  forgive my ignorance, but it would seem to me there are plenty of fellas to fill that role.  kelly, your comments are a perfect example of the "coy wire phenomenon" -- people act as if wire is a guy who would need to be "replaced."

407382[/snapback]

Yeah, Daniel Leger. He is your man if you cut Coy Wire. Leonhard and Baker play FS exclusively, and as far as I know do not even practice the SS spot. If you cut Coy Wire you're risking our defense with Daniel Leger. I'm sure you're quite comfortable with him. The last two back-up safeties, Priloeau and Reese both played both positions, so we could have afforded to cut Wire if one of them was back there but they are not. Wire played the first four games last year at SS and our defense was not nearly as good as when Milloy was in, but it didnt get killed either. And the result would be the same this year. I, for one, am not at all willing to risk our defense on Daniel Leger.

[Sound_n_Fury]

The last two back-up safeties, Priloeau and Reese both played both positions, so we could have afforded to cut Wire if one of them was back there but they are not.

407386[/snapback]

 

A low-cost vet like Priloeau or Reese can--and should--be broght in by pre-game #3 if Wire puts on any more performances like last night. They're not that hard to find...as evidenced by the two guys you named. Get er done, John Guy!

[34-78-83]

One of the strangest things I've witnessed as a Bills fan is Wire's inability to learn to play his position.  This is a man who is supposed to be very intelligent.  Some have instinct, Wire has instink.  He just naturally sucks.

 

  The Bills really don't have a backup for Milloy.  They can always list Baker or Leonhard as Milloy's backup, but those guys are both centerfielders.  My guess is that they cut Wire and carry 3 FS types and Milloy.  With the exception of Lindell, the Bills are stacked with special teams players like they never have been before, even during the Tasker/Pike era, and they can endure the loss of Wire, especially if they keep Leonhard.

407079[/snapback]

 

Good post Badol. This is the way I see it as well.

[stevewin]

there's no one on the roster to replace a guy who sucks?  forgive my ignorance, but it would seem to me there are plenty of fellas to fill that role.  kelly, your comments are a perfect example of the "coy wire phenomenon" -- people act as if wire is a guy who would need to be "replaced."

407382[/snapback]

I agree completely

 

Yeah, Daniel Leger. He is your man if you cut Coy Wire. Leonhard and Baker play FS exclusively, and as far as I know do not even practice the SS spot. If you cut Coy Wire you're risking our defense with Daniel Leger. I'm sure you're quite comfortable with him. The last two back-up safeties, Priloeau and Reese both played both positions, so we could have afforded to cut Wire if one of them was back there but they are not. Wire played the first four games last year at SS and our defense was not nearly as good as when Milloy was in, but it didnt get killed either. And the result would be the same this year. I, for one, am not at all willing to risk our defense on Daniel Leger.

What Kelly - have you got a thing against the Colorado School of Mines? Leger could turn out to be a real 'gem'

 

Honestly - at this point I have absolutely no problem if Leonhard or Baker are thrown in at SS - I am not so sure they are thought of as 'exclusively' FS anyway (Milloy is listed at 6' 190 - Leonhard weighs the same - Baker goes 5'10" 198). The point is - which is what is stated above - is that regardless of what position you want to assign Wire to - he still is not capable of filling that role competently. If Wire has shown the complete inability to play SS going on for his 4th season - why in the world would we even consider wanting him still around to be a back-up? When he can't play the position?! What we need minimally are capable football players to fill that role - even if Leonhard and/or Baker are listed as FS, if they are capable football players they cannot be any worse than Wire (and like I said I believe it is possible one or both are slated as being backup for both positions). To be honest, I personally won't write off Leger either (a stout 6' 213lbs BTW) - again, it would be very hard to be more of a liability on the field that Wire is. You say you don't want to risk our defense on Leger - I don't want to risk it on Wire - someone who I KNOW cannot play! That is simply a reality. Most importantly, don't forget also there will be some safeties available when the rosters start cutting down - I think it is very possible someone will be brought in.

 

I am also among the group that would have loved to see PP stick around - but he didn't want to restructure his contract and wanted to get more PT w/ another team - and got reunited w/ GW as a bonus.

 

Edit: BTW - if PP decides to restructure his contract this thread doesn't exist. The Bills would have cut Wire loose at that point faster than you can say "Where's the safety on that play!!!"

 

One of the strangest things I've witnessed as a Bills fan is Wire's inability to learn to play his position.  This is a man who is supposed to be very intelligent.  Some have instinct, Wire has instink.  He just naturally sucks.

You answered yourself right there. It is not about intelligence - it is about ability, instinct. Wire simply does not have it. That is why all the arguments about playing different positions, giving more time, better coaching, moon phase etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. simply are empty ones - when it comes down to having the ability to be a capable NFL caliber defensive player - Wire simply does not have it(and never did).

[Kelly the Dog]

I agree completely

What Kelly - have you got a thing against the Colorado School of Mines?  Leger could turn out to be a real 'gem'

 

Honestly - at this point I have absolutely no problem if Leonhard or Baker are thrown in at SS - I am not so sure they are thought of as 'exclusively' FS anyway (Milloy is listed at 6' 190 - Leonhard weighs the same - Baker goes 5'10" 198).  The point is - which is what is stated above - is that regardless of what position you want to assign Wire to - he still is not capable of filling that role competently.  If Wire has shown the complete inability to play SS going on for his 4th season - why in the world would we even consider wanting him still around to be a back-up?  When he can't play the position?!  What we need minimally are capable football players to fill that role - even if Leonhard and/or Baker are listed as FS, if they are capable football players they cannot be any worse than Wire (and like I said I believe it is possible one or both are slated as being backup for both positions).  To be honest, I personally won't write off Leger either (a stout 6' 213lbs BTW) - again, it would be very hard to be more of a liability on the field that Wire is.  You say you don't want to risk our defense on Leger - I don't want to risk it on Wire - someone who I KNOW cannot play!  That is simply a reality.  Most importantly, don't forget also there will be some safeties available when the rosters start cutting down - I think it is very possible someone will be brought in.

 

I am also among the group that would have loved to see PP stick around - but he didn't want to restructure his contract and wanted to get more PT w/ another team - and got reunited w/ GW as a bonus.

407460[/snapback]

It's a tough call. If it were up to me, I would have cut Wire and given the money to PP to stay as a back-up SS and FS and ST ace. But he is gone. Even though you say Wire stinks, and he does, he DID play in the first four games last year and he DID play okay, and he DID not cost us much. That is a fact. And in fact, when they did put Baker in he promptly cost us the Oakland game by not even covering his man for a wide open long touchdown.

 

The Bills brass still likes Wire for some reason. As far as I know, Leonhard never even played SS in college and as Badol mentioned, both he and Baker play like centerfielders. That is not remotely the same as our or any SS plays. I have pretty much given up on Wire as ever being good, and I wouldn't mind them signing a FA like Reese or PP and cutting Wire. But until we have someone on the roster that we know is not going to get us killed, Wire has to stay, IMO. Personally, I hope he goes.

[stevewin]

Even though you say Wire stinks, and he does, he DID play in the first four games last year and he DID play okay, and he DID not cost us much.

407468[/snapback]

Look at the replay of Wire flailing in the end zone on the last play of the Jax game and say that did not cost us something. Recall how close the other games were (NE aside) - I'm not blaming the whole streak on Wire - but I also truly believe if a better player is in there at SS some of those losses are wins. Another way to look at it (the Coy Kool Aid half-empty glass way) - is that the defense overall largely compensated for the liability at SS and those games were close DESPITE Wire being in there, and could have been wins without him in there (and we went 8-3 after he was replaced).

 

BTW - it is often said that in our defense the FS and SS have very similar responsibilities (one of the favorite talking points of the CWACs during the short-lived doomed CW FS experiment).

[eball]

But until we have someone on the roster that we know is not going to get us killed, Wire has to stay, IMO.

407468[/snapback]

when wire is in the game, he gets us killed. it has been shown time and time again. lionheart, or leonhard, or whatever his name is, is already light years ahead of CW in terms of "football smarts."

 

time to cut the cord on CW. or should i say, cut the wire.

[ExWNYer]

I wish TD would check his ego and release this guy.

 

Yeah, TD's "ego" is why Wire hasn't been released...the coaches are just puppets who have no say in who makes up the final roster.

 

BTW, I won't shed any tears if CW is released.

[BuffaloDynamite]

He SUCKS big time-why do they bother keeping him?

[RunTheBall]

I, for one, welcome another Coy Wire Sucks thread. There should be many this year because he won't be cut.

 

Coy Sucks.

 

That is all.

 

RTB